Israel has proved time and time again that everyone in Gaza is fair game, including children. This crap about children as human shields is simply that - crap. Hamas would at the very least know by now that this tactic simply does not work in the face of an army willing to kill just about anyone. There is no logic in this.
You are wrong Rowie (again imo)
You really shouldn't mention logic, because it is totally illogical to fire rockets at a superpower and not expect retaliation.
It is to me totally illogical to put your own citizens and infrastructure at risk by your own actions
To me that is not the path of an evolved society
Evolution is a fairly complex subject and open to many interpretations but the kill or be killed idea is really simplistic slant on species survival
Example, if the cheetah species was to develop a trait where as every time it saw a lion they would attack as opposed to hide or flight what would be the long term outlook for the cheetah species, Rowie?
Palestine was not occupied (though it is now)
The pockets of "resistance" that you mention is the governing body of the Palestine people, hardly a pocket.
I am not saying that Israel is right, I am saying that Hamas is Wrong....
Very Wrong
Just the same as there is no logic in the IDF firing randomly and without reason or cause into what would otherwise be civilian targets, but some choose to ignore this.
Both sides have been killing each other for ages. No one side has any kind of moral high ground and to argue otherwise is moronic, and partly the reason why the conflict continues to this day.
Well, it is my opinion that doing absolutely nothing in the face of aggression and brutality is a bigger threat to your existence than taking action. Being absolutely passive and accepting ones fate would lead to israels ultimate objective of leaving palestinians destitute and utterly stateless, to languish in refugee camps near the borders of egypt, jordan etc. These countries do not even want this burden to start with. So the Palestinian fight is one very much of survival, not as you say, a suicidal fight. They have lived through countless assaults on they're population, even during supposed cease fires Palestinians are killed on a daily basis. Embargos applied, infrastructure destroyed not because of theyre resistance but simply because they exist! So to go back to your cheetah example, if the lions only interest was in your total ejection from the wherever they roam to say a zoo, do you not think that it is in the best interest of the cheetah to resist, for not resisting would ultimately lead to total destitution and statelessness?
And lets not talk about an evolved society, for evolved societies dont drop heavy duty bombs and chemicals on a destitute population. And evolved societies would immediately object at such actions and not try to make excuses for these actions. We in the west are such evolved societies arent we???
Pre 2006 Palestinians did not even have a refugee camp as you put it. There is a path to statehood but it will take patience from the Palestinians. Add to that a huge worldwide focus coupled with diplomacy and constant pressure.
And the fellow Arab countries that do not want to be bothered just adds to the enormity of the problem.
The message is simple from Israel
Continue your agression and we will destroy you
Stop and though oppression and discomfort may still exist so will you
If you think that you can fight and lose so many people you are mad, as mad as someone that straps explosives to themselves to blow up innocent people and thinks that their actions will 1: Make a difference and 2: Be the right way to achieve ones goals
Have the Palestine people exhausted all Diplomatic avenues... I think not
It took years for apartheid to end in South Africa, years and a consistent worldwide struggle led by the victims.
Anyway Rowie you have the right of reply but this is my last post on this topic
Cheers
So palestinians will continue the struggle - the only way they know how. Until the world finally stands up and says that they have had enough, that they must be given land and recognised as an independent state.
So palestinians will continue the struggle - the only way they know how. Until the world finally stands up and says that they have had enough, that they must be given land and recognised as an independent state.
Hello, but that is exactly what they have been doing! Havent you been watching the news???@!!!
Hello, but the IDF says they fire upon targets which fire upon them. Haven't you been watching the news and listening to what Israel has been saying???@!!!
Hello, but the IDF says they fire upon targets which fire upon them. Haven't you been watching the news and listening to what Israel has been saying???@!!!
There have been Palestinian refugee camps for about 70 years.Pre 2006 Palestinians did not even have a refugee camp as you put it.
Over 100 UN resolutions in support of a Palestinian State: And we have.....There is a path to statehood but it will take patience from the Palestinians.
Which have achieved diddly squat since partition in 1947.Add to that a huge worldwide focus coupled with diplomacy and constant pressure.
Be careful where you get your news!And the fellow Arab countries that do not want to be bothered just adds to the enormity of the problem.
Doubtful, there are almost as many Palestinian refugees scattered nearby as there are Jews in IsraelThe message is simple from Israel
Continue your aggression and we will destroy you
So it's ok to be treated like a dog; "lie down and play dead".Stop and though oppression and discomfort may still exist so will you
Non sequiturs make poor logical arguments.If you think that you can fight and lose so many people you are mad, as mad as someone that straps explosives to themselves to blow up innocent people and thinks that their actions will 1: Make a difference and 2: Be the right way to achieve ones goals
Since 1949, Resolution 194 has been reaffirmed more than 110 times by the General Assembly.Have the Palestine people exhausted all Diplomatic avenues... I think not
Very, very different circumstances. Apartheid had as many supporters abroad as did the Ku Klux Klan. South Africa's fate was inevitable, on the sheer weight of numbers, aside from external pressures.It took years for apartheid to end in South Africa, years and a consistent worldwide struggle led by the victims.
Strategically, moral issues aside, the timing of Israel offensive was extra-ordinary. By quietly withdrawing, during this transition of power in US, the world will forget Gaza in a matter of days.
It also sits well with all the parties participating in the next election in Israel. Even those who had no chance of winning the election are now the likely candidates.
Militarily Israel must have done sufficient structural damage. Hamaz organization in disarray, with many Palestinians partially blaming them for their sufferings. Not to mention the total silence of the Arab world over this episode. Overall a poorly co-ordinated effort on Hamaz part.
In conclusion, Israel has taken full advantage of this window of opportunity. Gaza (and Hamaz) would take a while (6-12 months) to recoup their losses, and by that time, the new administration will be tamed into submissiveness.
The only way they know how is by pushing handicapped people off ships; murdering athletes; blowing up innocents; firing rockets indiscriminately into crowded cities for years on end; and calling for the wholesale destruction of the enemy as policy.
Hasn't anyone told the Ps about PR? It doesn't wash, it doesn't work and it's about time that they tried a sensible tactic.
The only way they know how is by pushing handicapped people off ships; murdering athletes; blowing up innocents; firing rockets indiscriminately into crowded cities for years on end; and calling for the wholesale destruction of the enemy as policy.
Hasn't anyone told the Ps about PR? It doesn't wash, it doesn't work and it's about time that they tried a sensible tactic.
Mayk, I dont quite get what you mean.
Do you mean Hamas will be tamed into submission?
Or, do you mean it was the last chance for war mongering "nazi" Ehud Olmert to inflict as much punishment he could on the Palestian people?
Do you happen to subscribe to jihadwatch as well Lucas??
Israel has proved time and time again that everyone in Gaza is fair game, including children. This crap about children as human shields is simply that - crap. Hamas would at the very least know by now that this tactic simply does not work in the face of an army willing to kill just about anyone. There is no logic in this.
And here is the knockout punch:
Take the rose coloured glasses off.
Would it make my point any less relevant? If so, why? Because it is an alternative to your viewpoint? And that makes it somehow less plausible? Why are your extremes acceptable, but any other viewpoint, extreme or otherwise, is instantly dismissable? If it smells like, quacks like a fascist attitude, I think it might well be...
Well, that is what you wholeheartedly and I think sincerely believe. But how do you explain this video that Snake presented a while back?
I would like to know your argument for believing the human shield statements to be crap given that video. Should we perhaps find someone who can validate the Arabic?
I am prepared to believe anything.
If you can cite one piece of evidence, not from Israel or Hamas of them using children as human shields, then perhaps I may be convinced. The best source to get this is from the UN since they are the main humanitarian body in Gaza and they are neutral. If the shield theory is correct, the UN would know and report this. Go look for evidence. Oh, here is a video you might find interesting - interview with a UN official(perhaps a Hamas agent?):
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=0O1YpBF1_bM
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