Your defence of the indefensible is incredible.
Israel in the Gaza Strip
- Thread starter BradK
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Your defence of the indefensible is incredible.
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Bravo for the cut n paste disarray, but that was taken from an article i previously posted. Is that all you have got?
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so your own link from amnesty which says hamas is using human shields isn't good enough for you?
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I can't stand it !!!!
You want evidence look at the civilian death toll and where the hell in the most densely populated area on earth were those missiles being fired from???
If they fire one bullet at enemy troops from an occupied civilian house is that not using civilians as a shield ???
Hamas entire aggressive stance to goad an enemy into an invasion reeks of the human shield tactic.
Maybe if they invaded Israel with their Militia I wouldn't have a problem with their aggression for the cause.
But no they chose to start a war and hide behind their dieing civilian population and hope international Muslim uproar reaches such a level as to promote the mass invasion and destruction of Israel.
Worth the sacrifice of over 1200 civilians????????
To the mind of a terrorist the answer is Yes
Rowie, other people have opinions and beliefs that are totally opposed to yours.
Please accept this fact
Why...most of Hamas most damaging propaganda has emanated from their own barbaric mouths...IMO
Sean K
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Sean K
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I'm a little confused too.so your own link from amnesty which says hamas is using human shields isn't good enough for you?
Yet again, its incredible how you can justify attacks on a civilian population and not attribute any blame to the parties that are actually firing the mortars and dropping the bombs!!! The bombs/bullets/mortars/white phosphorous fired into Gaza were all from the Israeli army! And yet Hamas are to blame!
Goad an enemy - if fighting back means goading an enemy then you are right. But they have a right to fight back! And fight back they do in the most densely populated places on this earth. And the reason they fight back from there? - Because they have been forcibly squeezed into this area, guess what? - they dont have any other land to fight back from! And this is the main reason for theyre fight!
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For a start that report is 5 years old.
Secondly it says "The report lists reckless shooting, shelling and air strikes in civilian areas... and excessive use of force."
Shelling and air strikes in civilian areas, if that's where current HAMAS fighters are mingling with the population, how else can they be attacked? If fire was to come out of these areas (built up civilian areas), then who's fault is it if the IDF retaliates? That's a genuine question because that is where a major problem lies. I'm guessing all it would take is a couple of gunmen within a schools grounds to start firing upon advancing IDF troops for the IDF to retaliate with stronger force. Who's fault is it then when children and civilians are caught in the cross fire? I don't think it's as cut and dry as you would like to believe.
Check out my previous posts for references but here is one of them:
http://boards.msn.com/MSNBCboards/thread.aspx?ThreadID=896969
Last week, Amnesty accused Israel of using civilians as human shields in its nearly three-week onslaught against the Gaza Strip, which has so far killed more than 971, half of them women and children.
Rovera said this is not the first time that Israel has used Palestinian civilians as human shields.
"It has been practiced by the Israeli army for many years and they are doing it again in Gaza now."
They also use Palestinians to drive out wanted Palestinian resistance fighters by making them approach their homes first and asking them to surrender.
Sounds pretty cut n dry to me.
Even when your argument is blown clean out of the water you still blather on.
Are you like this as an investor? If so, look forward to a life of much disappointment. Sometimes you just gotta know when an investment you have made is a loser. It's about maintaining some semblance of balance.
You're not a bad fellow, but you don't listen long enough to let other points of view inform you. That's a mistake whether you know it or not.
Are you like this as an investor? If so, look forward to a life of much disappointment. Sometimes you just gotta know when an investment you have made is a loser. It's about maintaining some semblance of balance.
You're not a bad fellow, but you don't listen long enough to let other points of view inform you. That's a mistake whether you know it or not.
Sean K
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Rovera isn't really that credible, in some opinions.
From NGO MOnitor:
Amnesty ´s “human rights meltdown”
Sarah Mandel
December 20, 2007
Revised date: December 23, 2007
Amnesty International's new website headlines the statement "Stop the human rights Meltdown. Make human rights real." However, detailed and systematic research published by NGO Monitor and others, and cited by the Economist and the Wall Street Journal, have demonstrated that this “meltdown” has resulted from the failures of NGO superpowers. Amnesty's only researcher for Israel and the Palestinian territories, Donatella Rovera shares the responsibility for this situation. Her claims in the interviews in Haaretz ('Things are far worse in Algeria,' Aryeh Dayan, December 12, 2007) and the Jerusalem Post (‘HR Issues were ignored at Annapolis’, Dan Izenberg, December 17, 2007) not withstanding, Rovera’s work reflects a lack the professionalism, credibility and scrupulous commitment to human rights, and she has consistently contributed to the politicization (and hence, the destruction) of universal human rights norms.
Maybe all's not that cut and dry.
I think your words here could very easily reflect your own stance and inability to look at the opposite side of an argument. My judgements are based on what I perceive is right and just in this matter. Simple as that. Dont bring up the investment side of things, thats a whole different matter.
It is fairly cut & dry really:
Again another article on the use of human shields by the IDF, this time from Israels oldest daily paper:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/867486.html
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They have a choice alright and that is too achieve their aims/goals peacefully
as opposed to exposing their civilian population to harm.
3 or 4 years ago they had nothing, now they have land albeit a sardine can
They didn't get that far by pitching rockets, it was by constant political pressure (Maybe by making the Lebanese peoples life hell certainly aided their cause)
Rowie, they may be uncomfortable, and unjustly deprived of their fair due, but are the survivors not alive, is all hope of a peaceful solution as dead as the 1200 fallen?
Wake up and smell the roses Rowie, Palestine is being governed by terrorists who have no concern for the safety and health of their citizens,just the achievement of their goals. Now some of their goals are noble and just and eventually have a chance to be resolved by diplomacy
Some like the complete annihilation of Israel.....
Welcome the fact that the Saudi's have shown a compassionate hand, and hopefully more goodwill will come from their Arab Muslim brothers.
Just don't threaten Israels citizens, negoitate to build on what you already have acheived, be patient, gather international support and financial backing for things other than weapons.
Israel will not attack unless it is attacked (Palestine)
They choose to fight as opposed to negotiation and they do have a choice because nobody is holding a gun to their head...yet
as opposed to exposing their civilian population to harm.
3 or 4 years ago they had nothing, now they have land albeit a sardine can
They didn't get that far by pitching rockets, it was by constant political pressure (Maybe by making the Lebanese peoples life hell certainly aided their cause)
Rowie, they may be uncomfortable, and unjustly deprived of their fair due, but are the survivors not alive, is all hope of a peaceful solution as dead as the 1200 fallen?
Wake up and smell the roses Rowie, Palestine is being governed by terrorists who have no concern for the safety and health of their citizens,just the achievement of their goals. Now some of their goals are noble and just and eventually have a chance to be resolved by diplomacy
Some like the complete annihilation of Israel.....
Welcome the fact that the Saudi's have shown a compassionate hand, and hopefully more goodwill will come from their Arab Muslim brothers.
Just don't threaten Israels citizens, negoitate to build on what you already have acheived, be patient, gather international support and financial backing for things other than weapons.
Israel will not attack unless it is attacked (Palestine)
They choose to fight as opposed to negotiation and they do have a choice because nobody is holding a gun to their head...yet
I have read most of your references, rowie, with keen observation and curiosity. I still maintain my original position which is not to take sides. When an argument you or anyone else proposes doesn't hold water, I comment. But I haven't taken a mortgage out on an extreme position.
NOTE TO MODERATOR:
Can I ask whoever moderates these forums that posters post one post at a time - in sequence with others - unless making a correction? This mortar fire approach is so boring and, I think, bordering on offensive.
NOTE TO MODERATOR:
Can I ask whoever moderates these forums that posters post one post at a time - in sequence with others - unless making a correction? This mortar fire approach is so boring and, I think, bordering on offensive.
They have a choice alright and that is too achieve their aims/goals peacefully
as opposed to exposing their civilian population to harm.
3 or 4 years ago they had nothing, now they have land albeit a sardine can
They didn't get that far by pitching rockets, it was by constant political pressure (Maybe by making the Lebanese peoples life hell certainly aided their cause)
Rowie, they may be uncomfortable, and unjustly deprived of their fair due, but are the survivors not alive, is all hope of a peaceful solution as dead as the 1200 fallen?
Wake up and smell the roses Rowie, Palestine is being governed by terrorists who have no concern for the safety and health of their citizens,just the achievement of their goals. Now some of their goals are noble and just and eventually have a chance to be resolved by diplomacy
Some like the complete annihilation of Israel.....
Welcome the fact that the Saudi's have shown a compassionate hand, and hopefully more goodwill will come from their Arab Muslim brothers.
Just don't threaten Israels citizens, negoitate to build on what you already have acheived, be patient, gather international support and financial backing for things other than weapons.
Israel will not attack unless it is attacked (Palestine)
They choose to fight as opposed to negotiation and they do have a choice because nobody is holding a gun to their head...yet
This is where I am in total disagreement with you on just about every line of your response. And I am not going to try to explain why any more, it really is futile - you have your point of view and I have mine, I agree to disagree. We both have a different take on the reality of the situation.
