Israel in the Gaza Strip

[Macquack]

I rather like that post disarray!

I rather dont like that post, disarray!

disarray gets most of his material from the ISLAM TO REDNECK Translation Dictionary.

 

[mayk]

i also read an interesting article that a possible israeli "final solution" is to concentrate the palestinians into a small area (achieved), make life difficult for them, then open a corridor for them to piss off out of gaza and head into jordan or egypt or something freeing up the land for the israelis to move in. seems plausible.

Can you elaborate this "plausible" conclusion in the light of, Torah, Bible, Koran, or simple common sense, or UN resolutions or Atheist Philosophy.

 

[rederob]

well that's my opinion, you have yours. i hold my opinion because i feel humanity is entering a very bearish phase, where population pressures and resource depletion (especially water) are going to cause a great deal of conflict in that area, and the already substantial divisions along race, culture and religion are going to become more pronounced and will form the battlelines in the conflict to come. so to each their own, but if you have a working crystal ball feel free to tell me how its all going to unfold (and drop in a stock tip while you're at it)

The Gazans entered a "bearish phase" some 18 months ago when Israel commenced its blockade. The norm in Gaza is no electricity, no running water, no food, no employment. And if you are lucky enough to be hospitalised don't count on medication, or surgery (the power might not be on).
I may have an opinion on this issue, but it's almost irrelevant given the dire conditions the Gazans have endured. I find it peculiar that Israel has not learned from its own past.

 

[rederob]

Oh, I forgot my stock tip.
I have none.
That's because I won't be re-entering the market for at least another 6 months. Indeed, there is every chance I will keep my money in the bank well into 2010.
Apologies for being off topic, but I am responding in disarray.

 

[disarray]

I rather dont like that post, disarray!

disarray gets most of his material from the ISLAM TO REDNECK Translation Dictionary.

LOL you're clutching at straws there man. actually my last post was referenced from mayk's link he used to confirm my statement about various statements in the koran. it's a very good link and i've been going through brushing up on my koranic scripture. maybe you should do the same? or would you rather i lent you a race card to play to save you the bother of having to do some research?

Can you elaborate this "plausible" conclusion in the light of, Torah, Bible, Koran, or simple common sense, or UN resolutions or Atheist Philosophy.

how about i just give you the link? The Invasion of Gaza : "Operation Cast Lead"

globalresearch.ca is a decidedly left leaning think tank with copious amounts of pro-palestinian / anti-israeli articles, which i also enjoy reading for its economic essays and various conspiracy theories about the manipulation of the global economy and the coming financial armageddon. reading information from both left and right wing sites? inconceivable!

that's ok though, you can still use the "you just get your news from FOX" line if it makes you happy. thanks for the koranic scripture link by the way, it is both helpful and enlightening! here's another one to share with you (redneck translation included!)

Koran Chapter 23 - Al-AhZab - The Clans, The Coalition, The Combined Forces

033.024 YUSUFALI: That Allah may reward the men of Truth for their Truth, and punish the Hypocrites if that be His Will, or turn to them in Mercy: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

033.025 YUSUFALI: And Allah turned back the Unbelievers for (all) their fury: no advantage did they gain; and enough is Allah for the believers in their fight. And Allah is full of Strength, able to enforce His Will.

033.026 YUSUFALI: And those of the People of the Book who aided them - Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye slew, and some ye made prisoners.

033.027 YUSUFALI: And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, and of a land which ye had not frequented (before). And Allah has power over all things.

i think there's something in that for all of us

The Gazans entered a "bearish phase" some 18 months ago when Israel commenced its blockade. The norm in Gaza is no electricity, no running water, no food, no employment. And if you are lucky enough to be hospitalised don't count on medication, or surgery (the power might not be on).

sounds like a great deal of the world. lets get outraged about that too! or do you need rocket launchers and an effective propaganda department to get media attention and your sympathy?

maybe some reasonable discourse and a dash of cultural and religious equivalence will save the day! because we all know how easily people forget past injustices and are willing to put the past behind them and work together to forge a peacful and prosperous future.

/idealism

I may have an opinion on this issue, but it's almost irrelevant given the dire conditions the Gazans have endured.

a man of conviction i see.

Apologies for being off topic, but I am responding in disarray

witty, you made a play on my name. keep the quality coming.

 

[rederob]

sounds like a great deal of the world. lets get outraged about that too! or do you need rocket launchers and an effective propaganda department to get media attention and your sympathy?

I don't see much of the world denied access to water, power and food, concurrently. But who here has been worried about that denial of human rights?
In a matter of years the Gazans killed a few dozen innocent Israeli people with their pathetic, misguided weapons. In a mater of weeks the Israelis multiplied that kill count of civilians a hundred times over.
One doesn't need a propaganda department to work out why the Palestinians are getting some favourable media attention, despite their recalcitrance.
Irrespective of the military outcome, Palestinian resolve against Israel has been galvanised many times over.
Israel has no concern over winning hearts and minds.
They want to teach a lesson.
Well, they taught it.
Their problem now is working out what constitutes a pass.

 

[mayk]

i think there's something in that for all of us

So you are justifying your "plausible " conclusion on Koran. And you are calling other people Hypocrite .

P.S. You are welcome for the link, nothing like a good verifiable source.

 

[mayk]

UK Jewish MP: Israel acting like Nazis in Gaza

 

[disarray]

I don't see much of the world denied access to water, power and food, concurrently

According to UNICEF, 26,500-30,000 children die each day due to poverty. And they “die quietly in some of the poorest villages on earth, far removed from the scrutiny and the conscience of the world. Being meek and weak in life makes these dying multitudes even more invisible in death.”

maybe they need better youtube access?

But who here has been worried about that denial of human rights?

indeed

In a matter of years the Gazans killed a few dozen innocent Israeli people with their pathetic, misguided weapons. In a mater of weeks the Israelis multiplied that kill count of civilians a hundred times over

right. the palestinians have been killing israelis for YEARS. israel has been killing palestinians for WEEKS. it's not like anyone has a high moral ground though.

One doesn't need a propaganda department to work out why the Palestinians are getting some favourable media attention, despite their recalcitrance.

media bias perhaps? clever media manipulation? plenty of opinion on both sides of that argument to trawl through should you be so inclined. i'm not but you go knock yourself out.

Israel has no concern over winning hearts and minds.

now this is just silly. to say that israel is happy just to rampage through gaza and massacre kids and not give a stuff about what the rest of the world thinks is deluded. they are subject to international pressure, dependent upon foreign trade and US$ like anyone else.

So you are justifying your "plausible " conclusion on Koran. And you are calling other people Hypocrite

what are you talking about? why would israel invade gaza based on koranic teaching

i think the article about "operation cast lead" is plausible because i think the israelis probably do want the palestinians to piss off out of gaza. access to land, resources, coastline and shifting out some neighbours they don't get along with makes more sense to me than invading because of the ramblings of a madman in some dark ages holy book.

 

[wayneL]

right. the palestinians have been killing israelis for YEARS. israel has been killing palestinians for WEEKS. it's not like anyone has a high moral ground though.

errrrr... you might want to reconsider that statement in light of the facts.

Aquick search from google 2001 archives http://news.google.co.uk/archivesea...=2001&as_hdate=2001&lnav=d4&hdrange=2002,2008

...and it goes back a bit further than that as well.

 

[disarray]

... in this current phase of a long and drawn out conflict. hamas has been relentlessly firing rockets into israel for years prior to the recent invasion, which is partly responsible for the current actions.

anyway the killing has been going on both sides for a long time now, as i've stated, no one has a high moral ground. i take the correction.

armed palestinian terrorists use kids as human shields.



and pics before bed ... firing amongst civilians

 

[Sean K]

...and it goes back a bit further than that as well.

At least as far as Deuteronomy, Ch 20.17:

thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee

 

[GumbyLearner]

It is a real shame that children are used as shields. Its also a real shame when anyone abuses small children in wartime or peace. Gutless stuff indeed!

 

[wayneL]

armed palestinian terrorists use kids as human shields.

and pics before bed ... firing amongst civilians

LOL

I don't disbelieve nor believe they are using children as shields, but that top photo is so obviously photoshopped, it's laughable.

The other photo and Utube are hardly conclusive or even evidence quality.

Again I stress that I don't disbelieve it, but please, if you are going to offer evidence, at least make it credible.

 

[nick2fish]

LOL

I don't disbelieve nor believe they are using children as shields, but that top photo is so obviously photoshopped, it's laughable.

The other photo and Utube are hardly conclusive or even evidence quality.

Again I stress that I don't disbelieve it, but please, if you are going to offer evidence, at least make it credible.

Regardless of the dubious conclusive nature of U Tube video, the fact remains that Hamas are using their citizens as sacrificial pawns to achieve their goals. Normal responsible people would think twice about consequences of their actions, even animals weight up the potential for serious injury before engagement.

"On the ground, as Hamas congratulated the Palestinians on "victory" from mosque loudspeakers, Gaza residents cautiously ventured out into the streets to inspect the rubble that was once their homes" (Reuters)

The Darwin Evolution Theory working in reverse

 

[rowie]

Regardless of the dubious conclusive nature of U Tube video, the fact remains that Hamas are using their citizens as sacrificial pawns to achieve their goals. Normal responsible people would think twice about consequences of their actions, even animals weight up the potential for serious injury before engagement.

"On the ground, as Hamas congratulated the Palestinians on "victory" from mosque loudspeakers, Gaza residents cautiously ventured out into the streets to inspect the rubble that was once their homes" (Reuters)

The Darwin Evolution Theory working in reverse

Yet again, never ceases to amaze me how the argument is turned on its head. You have a 4th strongest military in the world randomly firing into a civilian population with pockets of resistance and it is the pockets of resistance that are blamed for the killings. Can you possibly consider that Israel has caused this destruction? Or is that too far fetched for you?
Evolution theory is one of fight and struggle for survival. Kill or be killed.

Your logic and reasoning is working in reverse.

 

[disarray]

LOL

I don't disbelieve nor believe they are using children as shields, but that top photo is so obviously photoshopped, it's laughable.

The other photo and Utube are hardly conclusive or even evidence quality.

Again I stress that I don't disbelieve it, but please, if you are going to offer evidence, at least make it credible.

lol, that's some impressive photoshop picking skills. what you see is called the mogadishu sniper position, so named because of the tactic of fighters in somalia to fire from behind women and children. the kid stands there in front of the rocket launcher with his legs apart so the brave jihadi can fire through his legs while the young guy in front can catch any bullets from snipers or return fire.

either way people can make up their own minds as to the authenticity and the meaning of the images.

obvious photoshop huh?

 

[rowie]

Israel has proved time and time again that everyone in Gaza is fair game, including children. This crap about children as human shields is simply that - crap. Hamas would at the very least know by now that this tactic simply does not work in the face of an army willing to kill just about anyone. There is no logic in this.

 

[noirua]

Israel, of course, planned to pull out as the President Elect was about to be voted in. Quiet days ahead, until the vanquished reposition and gradually rearm.

 

[nick2fish]

Yet again, never ceases to amaze me how the argument is turned on its head. You have a 4th strongest military in the world randomly firing into a civilian population with pockets of resistance and it is the pockets of resistance that are blamed for the killings. Can you possibly consider that Israel has caused this destruction? Or is that too far fetched for you?
Evolution theory is one of fight and struggle for survival. Kill or be killed.

Your logic and reasoning is working in reverse.

You are wrong Rowie (again imo)
You really shouldn't mention logic, because it is totally illogical to fire rockets at a superpower and not expect retaliation.

It is to me totally illogical to put your own citizens and infrastructure at risk by your own actions

To me that is not the path of an evolved society


Evolution is a fairly complex subject and open to many interpretations but the kill or be killed idea is really simplistic slant on species survival

Example, if the cheetah species was to develop a trait where as every time it saw a lion they would attack as opposed to hide or flight what would be the long term outlook for the cheetah species, Rowie?

Palestine was not occupied (though it is now)
The pockets of "resistance" that you mention is the governing body of the Palestine people, hardly a pocket.


I am not saying that Israel is right, I am saying that Hamas is Wrong....
Very Wrong