Defence Space Command

[Craton]

I doubt you conduct your affairs on the basis of the improper acts of others.

As a sovereign nation, improper to some, appropriate to others. My take is that Australia is party to far too many treaties that don't gel with me.
The only treaty I really give two hoots about is the one we don't have with our indigenous brothers and sisters.

I think the average person would wonder why there is a Space Command with nothing to actually command in space.
But then again I am reliably informed that Scomo got the idea from elsewhere:

As an average person I'd say that even if there isn't anything to command in space now, the DSC in time will have. Plus, I'm all for having as many deterrents as possible against threats and in particular, without naming countries, those threats that seem to be forever rising.
If the DSC can give us an edge, I'm all for it. Of course feel free to disagree it won't make me change me mind.

 

[sptrawler]

As a sovereign nation, improper to some, appropriate to others. My take is that Australia is party to far too many treaties that don't gel with me.
The only treaty I really give two hoots about is the one we don't have with our indigenous brothers and sisters.

That treaty would be blown in the wind if we were invaded, thats for sure, hopefully it gets sorted before then.
Because sooner or later, someone will want our resources and vacant land, that IMO is a given.
The Worlds population is getting more affluent, with affluence comes more demand on the government to fulfill peoples needs, so they start looking further afield.

 

[moXJO]

We can't defend against China, so maybe we should not piss them off to much.

You can. But you need a trained population. Afghanistan took on the top armies and eventually ground them out. We don't have the luxury of running across the border though.

They are heading this way sooner or later as we have resources they need.

 

[rederob]

As a sovereign nation, improper to some, appropriate to others. My take is that Australia is party to far too many treaties that don't gel with me.
The only treaty I really give two hoots about is the one we don't have with our indigenous brothers and sisters.

What you care about is not relevant.
The point here is that we chose to be a party to a Treaty and that we are now actively doing the opposite of its purpose.

As an average person I'd say that even if there isn't anything to command in space now, the DSC in time will have.

And its purpose will be to do what?

Plus, I'm all for having as many deterrents as possible against threats and in particular, without naming countries, those threats that seem to be forever rising.

So am I.
So let's look at the real world of threats and examine an existential proposition on a better "space" command:


I don't post to get people to change their minds, but it would be good to understand that they knew what led them to their beliefs. In the context of government decision making for a Space Command it's a revisitation of the Emperor's new clothes.

 

[SirRumpole]

The point here is that we chose to be a party to a Treaty and that we are now actively doing the opposite of its purpose.

How long ago was that treaty signed ?

Circumstances change . A man of honour like Gorbachev would abide by treaties he signed, other people of less integrity who did not sign those treaties may not.

We have to change with the times.

 

[rederob]

This video shows that, apart from DJI's drones which you or I could buy, what's available through commercial space links in terms of real time imagery is as good as what is used by Washington to provide war updates:

 

[rederob]

How long ago was that treaty signed ?

Circumstances change . A man of honour like Gorbachev would abide by treaties he signed, other people of less integrity who did not sign those treaties may not.

We have to change with the times.

If you don't know then inform yourself!
UN Treaties are under regular review and revision, so definitely change with the times.

Why is everyone here so good at avoiding the reality of us acting against what we signed up for?
Or having no idea what the Space Command will actually do, given we have nothing to command.

Circumstances definitely change, and my linked video showed how a volunteer drone force - using a $10k Mavic drone - directly (ie nothing going via satellite) links to an artillery force to target the enemy. I saw a Russian team using a DJI Matrice 30 drone which is even more advanced. The advantage of using DJI type drones is that potentially thousands of these could be used simultaneously to support any level of military force, and provide instantaneous feedback. Getting an equivalent level of reconnaissance from space would cost billions and could be comparatively easily compromised (targeted - nowhere to hide in outer space!) or nullified (jammed).

The next levels of warfare will involve more AI weaponry and robotics. We are not there yet.

 

[SirRumpole]

The next levels of warfare will involve more AI weaponry and robotics. We are not there yet.

And never will be if some have their way.

 

[rederob]

And never will be if some have their way.

Given we are already halfway there you might need to rethink that statement.

 

[sptrawler]

You can. But you need a trained population. Afghanistan took on the top armies and eventually ground them out. We don't have the luxury of running across the border though.

They are heading this way sooner or later as we have resources they need.

Training facilities will be located in Maccas carparks, at least people would turn up. ?

A major Chinese naval base a couple of hundred klm off our NE coast, great for disrupting supply chains, and blocking access from the U.S.

Oh but we don't need to worry, just be nice and be careful that you do as your told, then they will leave you alone and pay us top dollar for our resources.
Luckily everyone knows we are woke and don't accept bullying, we will train more counsellors to explain to the aggressors that it isn't acceptable, that should fix it.

 

[SirRumpole]

Given we are already halfway there you might need to rethink that statement.

If you mean 'we' as in the human race is advancing robotic killers, I agree, if by 'we' you mean Australia should invest in killer robots instead of 'space' then I say we should do both.

There are so many aspects to defence technology that we can't afford to fall behind in any area.

 

[sptrawler]

And how do the left leaning media respond, well of course change from calling Dutton a war monger, to calling him a chicken hawk. ?
Oh the irony.

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/20...tton-fiddles-as-china-declares-pacific-war-2/
From the article:
That’s motherhood bull****. Dutton is still working from the soft power playbook where we complete over aid funding and the like.

But China has gone directly to the strategic competition playbook in which guns are all that matter.

Wake up, Canberra, this is war!

 

[Craton]

I was going to query the hypocrisy in these statements but, as I've a few moments...

What you care about is not relevant.

Thanks, and you're special too.

I don't post to get people to change their minds, but it would be good to understand that they knew what led them to their beliefs.

Beliefs.
I understand I'm a pacifist because I've a real aversion to pain and would rather get along with my fellow earth dwellers however, when words fail and push comes to shove, I know I'll always let you throw the first punch. After that, you either tap out or it's to the death.

I also know, for the obvious reason I've never needed to front up to a judge about this matter, and believe I'm fortunate to have been able to settle disputes with barely a drop of blood, with accord and, most importantly, without loss of life.

If I can do it, why in the hell can't other earth dwellers?
Be no need for any DSC if that were the case.

 

[sptrawler]

@Craton I'm with you, violence is a last resort and it would be nice if everyone in the World had your outlook, but you just need to pick up the paper any day to read about the unprovoked cruelty some people can inflict on others.
I grew up in some out of the way places, where people really wouldn't chose to live and is the reason FIFO is so popular. In some of those places I have met some very nasty and aggressive people, who actually enjoyed inflicting pain on other people, I never found turning the other cheek or talking to them helped a great deal.
In most cases it just inflamed the situation, as it usually was interpreted as a sign of weakness, which meant their enjoyment was going to in most parts uninhibited.;
Take today's papers as an easy example:
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...-death-by-former-partner-20220326-p5a85o.html

And on a local note, in my area with a population of 60,000 or so.

Mandurah men charged after allegedly cutting off a man's fingers in a group attack

Police have charged two Mandurah men in their 20s for an alleged group attack in Greenfields which left...

www.mandurahmail.com.au

Or let's go further afield I typed in Cairns attack.

Group of 7 charged after alleged ‘vicious’ and ‘unprovoked’ attack​

The alleged vicious unprovoked bashing of two women in the CBD by a gang of seven girls is the latest incident in an ongoing battle waged by traders against chroming, vandalism and violence.SEE THE ARREST VIDEO

Man killed in stabbing attack at Cairns shopping centre

A man dies after a knife attack at Cairns Central shopping centre soon after it opened to shoppers this morning.

www.abc.net.au

So I google Melbourne random attack and this is the first cab off the rank.

Search for man behind 'disgraceful unprovoked attack' on a 94-year-old

www.9news.com.au

 

[SirRumpole]

@Craton I'm with you, violence is a last resort and it would be nice if everyone in the World had your outlook, but you just need to pick up the paper any day to read about the unprovoked cruelty some people can inflict on others.
I grew up in some out of the way places, where people really wouldn't chose to live and is the reason FIFO is so popular. In some of those places I have met some very nasty and aggressive people, who actually enjoyed inflicting pain on other people, I never found turning the other cheek or talking to them helped a great deal.
In most cases it just inflamed the situation, as it usually was interpreted as a sign of weakness, which meant their enjoyment was going to in most parts uninhibited.;
Take today's papers as an easy example:
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...-death-by-former-partner-20220326-p5a85o.html

And on a local note, in my area with a population of 60,000 or so.

Mandurah men charged after allegedly cutting off a man's fingers in a group attack

Police have charged two Mandurah men in their 20s for an alleged group attack in Greenfields which left...

www.mandurahmail.com.au

Or let's go further afield I typed in Cairns attack.

Group of 7 charged after alleged ‘vicious’ and ‘unprovoked’ attack​

The alleged vicious unprovoked bashing of two women in the CBD by a gang of seven girls is the latest incident in an ongoing battle waged by traders against chroming, vandalism and violence.SEE THE ARREST VIDEO

Man killed in stabbing attack at Cairns shopping centre

A man dies after a knife attack at Cairns Central shopping centre soon after it opened to shoppers this morning.

www.abc.net.au

So I google Melbourne random attack and this is the first cab off the rank.

Search for man behind 'disgraceful unprovoked attack' on a 94-year-old

www.9news.com.au

Yep, and if (??) one of those types happened to be the leader of a powerful country with lots of weapons, then we had better be able to defend ourselves.

 

[sptrawler]

Yep, and if (??) one of those types happened to be the leader of a powerful country with lots of weapons, then we had better be able to defend ourselves.

So very true mate, people just need have a look on a map to see the ramifications for Australia, if China develop a very large naval facility at the Solomon Islands.
They already have a deep water port on PNG, all it would take to completely neutralise Australia would be for China to make Indonesia an offer they can't refuse and when you think about the poverty in Indonesia, that wouldn't be a lot of money for China.

 

[SirRumpole]

So very true mate, people just need have a look on a map to see the ramifications for Australia, if China develop a very large naval facility at the Solomon Islands.
They already have a deep water port on PNG, all it would take to completely neutralise Australia would be for China to make Indonesia an offer they can't refuse and when you think about the poverty in Indonesia, that wouldn't be a lot of money for China.

View attachment 139525

I reckon the only counter we could have is to let the Yanks build a very large base at Darwin or Cairns (if they are interested) with enough facilities to service several aircraft carriers and nuclear subs.

I can't really see China being put off by anything we could do alone.

 

[sptrawler]

I reckon the only counter we could have is to let the Yanks build a very large base at Darwin or Cairns (if they are interested) with enough facilities to service several aircraft carriers and nuclear subs.

I can't really see China being put off by anything we could do alone.

Or we could do what a lot on ASF like to do, tell the U.S to flck off and wing it ourselves, just be nice, smile a lot, bow and curtsy whenever possible. ?
We could always get the French to help, if we re order the diesel subs.
I wonder if the Chinese are up to speed with our My Gov system? I would hate then not to be able to keep continuity with the welfare payments. ?

 

[SirRumpole]

I guess if we thought like Putin we would be preparing to invade the Solomons right now.

 

[sptrawler]

I guess if we thought like Putin we would be preparing to invade the Solomons right now.

He wouldn't have to, just make a better offer than China and he gets the prize.
Better still go halves with China and you get it at half the price, that would leave more over to buy access into Indonesia. ?