Christmas

[Value Collector]

The natural laws of physics, chemistry and biology that work together to allow the universe to exist and life to develop.

How did they come about ?

No one has given a satisfactory explanation of how they were created

That's called the arrguement from ignorance fallacy, it's the "I don't know how it could happen, therefore I know a god did it" arrguement.

We have no idea how many universes exist and how different the laws of physics are in each one, obviously if the laws of physics are random in each universe, eventually one will have the laws of physics that allow life as we now it, and then that life form will sit there saying "look these laws of physics are perfect, it must have been designed.

Also, if the universe was slightly different, another type of life may form, and then it will think the universe is designed for it.

 

[Value Collector]

VC, you are just in denial of our history and how this country was established.
Thank GOD, Joe believes in freedom of speech, because if it was up to you, we would all be living in a dictatorship, as we can see happening in Melbourne.

Anti-life, anti-Christian, anti-family.

Tisme's quote in the other thread was spot on with the constitution --

'Life and Liberty, and the Judeo-Christian view'

What our laws were built on.

-- In a true spontaneous order, the constraints are already there, in the form of customs, laws, and morals

"Judeo-Christian view" ???

For most of history your organisation has be very anti jewish.

I am not anti Christian, as I said I support your right to practice your faith, I just stand up for the rights of others not to have your faith pushed on them.

Also, I actually care if my beliefs are true, do you care if your beliefs are true?

 

[Tink]

Our laws are based on religious morality, how this country was set up.

The Law of the Land that YOU live in, and have enjoyed.

 

[Tisme]

Air is invisible but can be felt and yes, breathed in. Without its presence we die so we know it exists.

Brain wave we can't see but we can measure and know it works through synapses and electrical this and that. So we can prove it exists.

God only seem to exists because a few people started to believe some guy who hear voices and talk to noone but claim he's not crazy or Schizophrenic. That or they see some natural disaster or event and could say with a straight face he know it's the big man upstairs doing it and only he knows why.

So while air and brainwave we can't live without, literally... God or any Creator we can... and when there are many to choose from. If we aren't happy with the existing ones we can always create and imagine new ones

So when I tell you that God believers can feel his presence with a physical uplifting, change in breathing, change in brain wave activity, that is not measurable?

 

[Tisme]

Nope, I never said that because something is invisable it doesn't exist, we can demonstrate that air, brain activity exist through other tests, the god claims have never been demonstrated to be true.

Well fossils prove that dinosaurs existed, and we have dinosaur foot prints, so that proves they "walked the earth" just in case the fact they had legs wasn't proof enough.

It's easier to believe gold exists in Fort Knox, because There is proof gold exists, gold itself can be demonstrated, whether it exists inside of Fort Knox or not doesn't really bother me.

You have to have good reasons to believe things, I have never been presented with a good reason to believe any of the god claims are true.

What's your best piece of evidence for a god?

see my response to luutzu,,,said the spider to the fly

 

[SirRumpole]

That's called the arrguement from ignorance fallacy, it's the "I don't know how it could happen, therefore I know a god did it" arrguement.

What you call a fallacy I call examining all the possibilities and not ruling out the ones you prefer not to believe.

I don't know a God "did it", but I'm at least open to the possibility.

 

[Value Collector]

see my response to luutzu,,,said the spider to the fly

Delusions of all types exist across all types of religious beliefs. The delusion is real the gods are not.


A good study was done on people's brain waves when they describe the thoughts and feelings of their God, the same parts of the brain light up that light up when they describe their own thoughts and feelings, which is a different part to when they describe the thoughts and feelings of others, this shows it's really them talking about themselves.

 

[Tisme]

Delusions of all types exist across all types of religious beliefs. The delusion is real the gods are not.


A good study was done on people's brain waves when they describe the thoughts and feelings of their God, the same parts of the brain light up that light up when they describe their own thoughts and feelings, which is a different part to when they describe the thoughts and feelings of others, this shows it's really them talking about themselves.

I doubt very much a scientific test can quantify a person's feeling of truth, compassion, beliefs etc. It's so subjective and virtually an infinite analogue. Delusion is another person's reality, your opposition to skyfairies is probably viewed as delusional by the believers,

You obedience to the institutionalised rules of disbelief is like a religion itself.

 

[Value Collector]

What you call a fallacy I call examining all the possibilities and not ruling out the ones you prefer not to believe.

I don't know a God "did it", but I'm at least open to the possibility.

I am open to the idea too, But I just haven't seen any evidence that suggests the god hypothisis is true.

the best answer at this stage is to refrain from belief and just say I don't know, thats the Agonotic-Atheist position I take.

 

[Value Collector]

I doubt very much a scientific test can quantify a person's feeling of truth, compassion, beliefs etc. It's so subjective and virtually an infinite analogue. .

A persons "feelings of truth" are don't mean anything, no doubt people hold "feelings of truth" about astrology, feng shei, lucky underpants etc, but that doesnt in anyway mean those things are true.

Delusion is another person's reality, your opposition to skyfairies is probably viewed as delusional by the believers,

and the christians see the muslims as delusional, and the muslims see the christians as delusional, they can't both be right, but the could both be wrong.

If astrology, feng shei, lucky underpants, christianity, islam etc is in fact reality, they should be able to demonstrate it.

 

[Tink]

Our history is Christendom.

What have you got to show for atheism?

 

[Value Collector]

Our history is Christendom.

What have you got to show for atheism?

Atheism is a simple lack of belief is a god or gods, So it's a silly question to ask "what have you got to show for it".

I guess you can say the demise of silly superstitions is the main benefit, but really its a silly question to ask.

Tink, do you care if your beleifs are true?

 

[Tink]

Exactly, NOTHING.

Destruction.

So you are happy to sit here putting down what this country was built on with nothing to show.

 

[SirRumpole]

I am open to the idea too, But I just haven't seen any evidence that suggests the god hypothisis is true.

the best answer at this stage is to refrain from belief and just say I don't know, thats the Agonotic-Atheist position I take.

Your views have been far more atheist than agnostic.

It doesn't really bother me what you believe, however if you attack all religious people as being nutcases or fruitcakes then that is an extremist position from one who says he "doesn't know".

 

[Value Collector]

Your views have been far more atheist than agnostic.

It doesn't really bother me what you believe, however if you attack all religious people as being nutcases or fruitcakes then that is an extremist position from one who says he "doesn't know".

Atheist and agnostic are not mutually exclusive terms.

Atheist / theist describe what you believe

Agnostic / Gnostic describe what you claim to know

I am very willing to say I don't Know whether a god exists or not, But I also say I don't Believe in any gods.

That makes me an agnostic atheist, and thats that most common position among atheists. I have never claimed to know a for a fact no gods exist.

there are actually four postions you can be

Agnostic Atheist - ( I don't know for sure, but I currently don't believe)
Gnostic Atheist - ( I do Know for sure, therefore I don't believe)
Agnostic Theist- ( I don't Know For sure, but I do Believe)
Gnostic Theist- (I do know for sure, there fore I do believe)

I am the top one, I don't claim to know for sure, But am currently unconvinced.


Do you Know whether or not a god exists? (yes = Gnostic) (No = Agnostic)

Do you currently believe in any form of god? (yes = theist) (No = Atheist)

Agnostic and atheist are different answers to different questions.

 

[Value Collector]

Exactly, NOTHING.

Destruction.

So you are happy to sit here putting down what this country was built on with nothing to show.

lol, I didn't say atheists haven't achieved anything, atheists have added alot to society, you asked what does atheism have to show, and "atheisim" being a simple description of lack of belief means its a silly question.

It's like saying "What has the lack of beilef in the lochness monster, bigfoot or fairies got to show for itself"

-----

Are you avoiding the question?

I asked "do you care if your beliefs are true?

 

[Tink]

So I presume you are buying a ticket to China, or is it North Korea?

Life and Liberty is not what the atheist countries say.

 

[Value Collector]

So I presume you are buying a ticket to China, or is it North Korea?

Life and Liberty is not what the atheist countries say.

Nope I prefer to live in a secular democracy like Australia.

Are you Buying a ticket to a theocracy?

As I have said before atheism is not communism, as much as you wish it were for your strawman construction.

----
still avoiding the question?

I asked "do you care if your beliefs are true?

turns out you prefer buiding strawmen rather than getting to the relivant points.

 

[Tink]

We have been through this already, VC

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/f...t=25726&page=7&p=893572&viewfull=1#post893572

 

[bellenuit]

Our laws are based on religious morality, how this country was set up.

Is that why they say: "The Law is an ass"?