Why are we saying 'sorry' to the aboriginals?!

[agro]

These sorts of welfare perks I completely agree are ridiculous. I don't see why there should be differential welfare treatment for aboriginals just because of race. If the above is true it's quite bizzarre. Its the small things like aboriginals getting a govt funded taxi from the pub to their govt funded housing that creates resentment in the community, and maintains the welfare trap. (doesn't change my view that compensation if it occurs for the stolen generation should be treated/viewed differently, and consistently with any other govt compensation issue, in the same way I also think that welfare should be dished out consistently - one set of rules for all - either way - same for policing and judicial treatment).

i think people should work for welfare - even community service is good enough

it shouldn't be handed out freely and it also should be audited where the money is being spent ..

i know the some new mums who get the $5000 baby bonus spend it on tvs etc... hardly on the baby

makes u wonder

 

[SevenFX]

Why the hell don't the Aboriginals want to assimilate? .

Reminds me of a Not so Wise Man's Quote:

"I just can't understand my Daughter, She just won't Listen to Me"

SevenFX

 

[disarray]

If you use that same logic then the asbestos victims of james hardie shouldn't get compensation. Car accident victims shouldn't get compensation. War veterans shouldn't get pensions etc. etc. and anything a past government did, even if its just one term ago, isn't the responsibility of future governments or the people. Corneilia Rau shouldn't be compensated etc.

There might be nothing wrong with that either, but if its going to be the approach then it should be applied consistently.

lines need to be drawn, and the actions of individuals, corporations or governments need to be defined. the james hardy compensation situation is totally different to someone getting drunk and smashing into your car which in turn is totally different to a foreign government shipping convicts off to a mostly empty land on the far side of the world. the whole point of the logic is to look at the situation, examine what has gone into it then determine what the possible outcomes should be.

 

[Mofra]

disarray,

Once we start absolving governments form the wrong of previous governments, we are wandering into dangerous "moral hazard" territory, and we know how well that has worked out for financial markets in recent times

If there is a possibility of an individual, government or company to right a wrong, this should be explored.

 

[disarray]

i agree, and i don't think we should just pretend like nothing ever happened, however all sides need to be considered, not just "oh the evil whitefella took our land and kids so we must have apologies and compensation". this totally ignores massive failures on the aborigines part which need to be addressed as part of this issue.

as for absolving previous governments, where do we draw the line? 1950? 1888? 1054? no consideration is being made for changes in society, government or policy nor is any consideration being made for current policies which have sent billions of dollars to the aborigines already.

i'm happy to call the government to account on its failures, but then we must also call the aborigines to account on theirs, otherwise this is just going to be bs apologism with no real impetus for change behind it.

 

[jman2007]

Yeah trust me it is true about the funeral grant,

I also know of a group that got a grant to buy a $200,000 digger to construct some roads into/out of their community, what happened was so insane it is almost funny, they parked it in a dried-up river bed/pond with the bucket up in the air, and when the rains came and submerged the digger, they could fish from the bucket without getting wet.

jman

 

[wipz]

I guess once sorry has been said, we cut can all this aboriginal funding and they can be treated like the rest of us for once.

 

[sandlion]

...And therein lies the crux of the issue...say sorry, cut the discriminatory and preferential funding and welfare programs and let them adapt or die.

I read some rot earlier about surrender treaties not being signed by the indigenous people and ceding to the BRITISH CROWN, therefore Australia is still under indigenous law. People should know when they are beaten. Every other culture that has been confronted by a more dominant one has learned that lesson.

And what about the recent immigrants? Why the hell should their tax money go to support a corrupt and insidiously backward culture with no future except what is handed to them. It's called self determination, pull yourself out of the gutter, the world doesn't owe you a living and I for one will be applying for a tax rebate for any illegal compensation money handed over. The policy was government approved at the time and you cannot change that, nor should anyone have to pay for it.

The only thing that should be paid is lip service. Bring on the bleeding hearts...you can dry your tears with my laughter.

 

[Agentm]

i have to say, i am no going head to head with anyone here, once a bigot always a bigot. you cant change that by argueing with them..

its really the saddest thread and by far the most disturbing i have ever read..

its a real shame..

2. A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of
religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or
opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable
or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is
intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in
politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to
his own church, party, belief, or opinion.

To doubt, where bigots had been content to wonder
and believe. --Macaulay.

 

[sarahmeehan3]

Since I love the stock market and I am aboriginal I have decided to include the following in a hope that it will answer some of your questions.

regards

sarah

 

[theasxgorilla]

The policy was government approved at the time and you cannot change that, nor should anyone have to pay for it.

You make it sound like you condone governments absolving themselves of responsbility for their decisions and that people should not have responsibility for their goverments.

 

[agro]

You make it sound like you condone governments absolving themselves of responsbility for their decisions and that people should not have responsibility for their goverments.

fact of the matter is that it the whole situation is history!

you don't hear the romans and greeks asking for compo years after they had their issues

 

[bunyip]

How true.
It was our (white fella) gift to them after we stole their land.

Sorry!

Tell you what, rederob, how about you and I tell this forum why we stole their land.
You go first. Why did you steal their land?

 

[theasxgorilla]

fact of the matter is that it the whole situation is history!

you don't hear the romans and greeks asking for compo years after they had their issues

I suspect you will find that there are far more disputes of this kind going on in the world than you could possibly conceive of. You've heard of (the former) Yugoslavia I take it? And NATO got involved there. Not suggesting anything of the sort for this situation, but all the same, don't be surprised if it gets too high of a profile that there will be pressure from the international community. I'm surprised already how many people overseas that I meet have a fair idea that we have not treated our indigenous people well in the past and continue not to do so.

ASX.G

 

[moneymajix]

Sorry.

 

[2020hindsight]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/30/2150281.htm

Govt sets Stolen Generations apology date
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:03pm AEDT
Updated Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:43pm AEDT

The Federal Government has set February 13 as the day for a formal apology to the members of the Stolen Generation.

The apology will be the first item of business for the new Federal Parliament and will be delivered by Prime Minister Kevin Rudd.

Indigenous Affairs Minister Jenny Macklin says the apology is on behalf of the Australian Government and will not be attributing guilt to the current generation of Australians.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/31/2150830.htm

Dodson welcomes 'monumental' apology
Posted 1 hour 17 minutes ago
Updated 17 minutes ago

An Aboriginal leader has described the Federal Government's decision to issue a formal apology to the Stolen Generations as "monumental".

Indigenous Affairs Minister Jenny Macklin says Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson has now been briefed on the plans for the apology, which will be delivered on February 13, one day after the opening of the new parliamentary term.

Reconciliation Australia co-chairman Mick Dodson has welcomed the decision to issue the apology.

"I think this is monumental. It is something people have waited for, for a very long time," he said.

"It's hugely important to us as nation and to members of the Stolen Generations."

'Massive step'
Former national ALP president Warren Mundine says the Federal Government has taken a "massive step forward" by deciding to issue an apology.

Mr Mundine says it will help the nation come together and further the healing process

"In regards to the politics of it all, I think it's really going to set the tone for the incoming Rudd Labor Government," he said.

"It's the first sitting of Parliament and it's really going to set the tone for the next three years of this Government and how Australia acts and what it does. To me it's a massive step forward for us."

Mr Mundine also says it would be wrong for the Federal Opposition not to support the apology.

"I think it'd be a very silly step by the Coalition and the Opposition to do that," he said.

"They only have to look at their own track record at state and territory levels.

"All the Coalition governments and oppositions have gone along with the apology and have all accepted saying sorry to Aboriginal people.

"They've done it at the state government levels and they've done it at local government levels."

Nelson briefed
Dr Nelson earlier said he wanted to see the text of the apology to be delivered before giving it his approval.

Ms Macklin says Prime Minister Kevin Rudd will meet with Dr Nelson again next week to discuss the text of apology.

But she says every parliamentarian should be giving the move their in-principle support.

"To make it truly a moment of national significance, if people across the Parliament can support this apology it really will carry that extra weight to enable the country to move forward."

I liked Malcolm Fraser on AM this morning.
a) pointing out that both the previous and the current shadow treasurers (Peter Costello, and Malcolm Turnbull) support saying sorry., and

b) pointing out that unless Brendan Nelson and the rest the Coalition agree, i.e. if they stubbornly "paint themselves into a corner", then history will just move over them and "they will become irrelevant".

 

[--B--]

The Federal Government has set February 13 as the day for a formal apology to the members of the Stolen Generation.

[sarcasm]
i eagerly await this day and look forward to seeing the fortunes of the aboriginal people turned around and the relations between aboriginals and white australians at an all time high...
[/sarcasm]


[reality]
i look forward to the continued presence of the victim mentality which has plagued the aboriginal people due to this 'symbolic gesture'
[/reality]

 

[noirua]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/30/2150281.htm


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/31/2150830.htm


I liked Malcolm Fraser on AM this morning.
a) pointing out that both the previous and the current shadow treasurers (Peter Costello, and Malcolm Turnbull) support saying sorry., and

b) pointing out that unless Brendan Nelson and the rest the Coalition agree, i.e. if they stubbornly "paint themselves into a corner", then history will just move over them and "they will become irrelevant".

2020 et al, Could some members of Government just be apologising because that appears the best political move? Or maybe they think that they must be seen to stand behind their leader.

As many say "it's easy to apologise" it only takes words.
"Irelevant" does that mean it's definitely best to make this move.

It's more to do with seeing that every citizen of Australia has equal rights and none are more equal than others.

 

[2020hindsight]

well -B- I look forward to all the negative conjecture - and your opinion - becoming irrelevant

 

[--B--]

well -B- I look forward to all this conjecture - and your opinion - becoming irrelevant

so 2020, i take it youre of the belief that saying sorry will help the aboriginal people??

can you explain how and why?