America a Failed State and a Rogue State to the rest of the World

[SirRumpole]

No offence to anyone but I do find it ridiculous that the choice is one old man versus another old man.

Surely they could find someone younger who's got a real reason to focus on the future given they'll be part of it.

Find a young person with plenty of money who knows what makes the US tick and is in touch with the masses ? A tough task. I think the US is so polarised you either get a Trump or a Sanders with little in between.

I have to disagree with you (which I rarely do), that Trump is a better bet than Biden. Trump (or at least his supporters) is tearing US society apart, they badly need some oil on the troubled waters.

 

[Smurf1976]

Come on Smurf, he is an incompetent.

No argument there.

A big problem throughout the West in my view is that there seems to have been an overall peak in the 1980's and 90's, a time of incredible optimism and a generally upbeat view of the future, which reflects in everything from politics to pop culture.

Comparing 2020 with the 1980's or 90's, we've gone from politics with a serious vision of a better future and a population willing to bear some pain now in order to make tomorrow happen to a situation where the focus is no more than weeks or even just days ahead and nobody's willing to incur even the slightest burden to improve things.

Popular culture is much the same. 1980's and 90's music and movies are a far, far bigger thing today than ~35 year old stuff was back in the 80's - 90's when the focus was very much on the here and now and looking to the future not the past.

Going forward we need to sort out the issues of sustainability in terms of resources and the environment. We need to sort out the reality that there ain't no level playing field when it comes to production and trade and likely never will be. We need to fix the hollowing out of the middle class and so on. That requires vision and a willingness to incur the pain of moving forward.

Australia has a similar problem but with a time lag. Labor struggles to accept that it's time to tear down much of the Keating legacy and the Coalition likewise struggles to rip down things from the Howard era. Those were a long time ago now though and it's time to tear down and replace all that either didn't work or has lost relevance. Nothing lasts forever.

What's needed throughout the West is some vision to move forward rather than being rusted onto a set of political ideals that were relevant a generation ago but which have well and truly passed their use-by date. Stick with music and movies if you want retro, you can play Bruce Springsteen or Rick Astley all day and night if you want and it won't do any harm, but we need to be looking to the future when it comes to politics.

 

[Humid]

Find a young person with plenty of money who knows what makes the US tick and is in touch with the masses ? A tough task. I think the US is so polarised you either get a Trump or a Sanders with little in between.

I have to disagree with you (which I rarely do), that Trump is a better bet than Biden. Trump (or at least his supporters) is tearing US society apart, they badly need some oil on the troubled waters.

That young person voted Trump

 

[Smurf1976]

I have to disagree with you (which I rarely do), that Trump is a better bet than Biden. Trump (or at least his supporters) is tearing US society apart, they badly need some oil on the troubled waters.

I do agree that Trump, as a man and as President, is terrible.

I say that having had some dealings personally with someone of remarkably similar character. I won't name names, though to avoid any inferences I'll clarify that they are in no way involved in the power industry, but the similarities were quite striking. That experience in mind, I see through Trump's BS indeed some of it's literally word for word the same thing I've seen from someone else. In ot

The ultimate effect of Trump is to remove competence and I mean that literally. Anyone competent has been or will be sacked, silenced or otherwise taken out of the picture. That's what bullies do.

The result inevitably will be a serious blunder and by that I mean a catastrophic one. You can't remove everyone competent and not end up with a disaster at some point. The details of it though are anyone's guess and it may only be apparent in hindsight (is it unfolding right now?).

Sticking with the music theme that jbocker started though, well I'll liken Trump to someone who can't sing, can't play any instruments, is no good at interviews and he's even worse at dancing. A failure in every way except that he's written one good song which, if someone else were to perform it, would go straight to number 1 and stay there for a very long time.

Trump's attack on the race to the bottom is his sole redeeming feature in my view. It's the good lyrics which stand out - we just need a competent singer and musicians to perform it.

 

[SirRumpole]

Trump's attack on the race to the bottom is his sole redeeming feature in my view. It's the good lyrics which stand out - we just need a competent singer and musicians to perform it

I certainly agree there. Highlighting reliance on China and other low wage countries is his only redeeming feature, as the current pandemic demonstrates. I haven't heard Biden's foreign relations policy if he has one so I can't comment on what his attitude towards China might be.

Seeing Australia's politicians continually cow towing to the PRC is pretty morale sapping. Hopefully they will see the light in that if you have unreliable customers who pay high prices one minute to suck you in, but then chop you off at the knees the next then that's not as good as a consistent but possibly less high paying market (the local Australian market perhaps).

Australia's management of the PRC relationship needs to be careful, given that were are not a global superpower in either trade or military, but in the long term it means gradually easing ourselves out of their grip towards other markets who trade commercially not politically, and it also means providing for our own needs first wherever possible.

I'm not sure we have the politicians to do this at the moment. People say Morrison is a pragmatist, I hope they are right.

 

[Smurf1976]

Highlighting reliance on China and other low wage countries is his only redeeming feature, as the current pandemic demonstrates. I haven't heard Biden's foreign relations policy if he has one so I can't comment on what his attitude towards China might be.

If shop A is terribly run by an arrogant fool who yells and screams whilst overcharging me and shop B is run by a polite and intelligent person who chats pleasantly whilst serving customers then at face value anyone would choose shop B.

Where the problem arises is if shop B isn't selling what they want to buy, in which case your choice is either finding some way to substitute ice cream for washing detergent, or going to shop A and putting up with the BS.

I despise Trump's personality, the bullying and all the rest but on the other hand I can understand the appeal. He seems to be the only one selling what many want to buy.

 

[qldfrog]

I despise Trump's personality, the bullying and all the rest but on the other hand I can understand the appeal. He seems to be the only one selling what many want to buy

I believe this is the issue, the opposition is mimicking the media and sadly many here, if it is Trump it is bad...well by now, they should have learnt that Trump plays by rudely saying obvious common sense first level truth or semi truth.
That can only attract people who are realists or experience these in the first place.
Yet the systematic opposition and twisted media layer on top make the counter offer as ridiculous.
Trump launches a trade war against China he is blamed..well using another bully to fight a bully seeing the results of previous administrations, is maybe the way to go.
Bring this to the current murder of that guy by a policeman, if i go and tell his local community that blacks are less likely to be killed than whites by police, a truth as per stats posted before, will they believe me? No i will be lynched.as their experience is different
So when democrats tells rightly or wrongly that globalisation or emigration is good to someone whose job has been delocalised and daughter raped by a latino gang member, how do you think it goes?
So both democrats and Republicans have to stop BS .and this is true at home otherwise we will end with national socialism and then Trump will have been the least of our worries

 

[rederob]

Bring this to the current murder of that guy by a policeman, if i go and tell his local community that blacks are less likely to be killed than whites by police, a truth as per stats posted before, will they believe me? No i will be lynched.as their experience is different

Again, you do not understand statistics.
Even if blacks are 3 times more likely to be involved in criminal activity, they are still twice as likely to be shot by police.
The other basic statistic relates to unarmed American blacks being just as likely to be killed by police in raw data terms despite representing just one in eight of the population.
You must think that Americans don't understand these basic facts!
America is literally burning in front of our eyes because many feel strongly about this continuing injustice.
I won't bother commenting on your other points as they are as poorly founded as your ability to use data.

 

[Knobby22]

Saw a stat today. If you are black you are 2.5 times more likely to die from coronavirus than the rest of the population.
I suspect this is due to relative poverty meaning self isolation is difficult, poor quality food and lack of access to health care.

 

[qldfrog]

Saw a stat today. If you are black you are 2.5 times more likely to die from coronavirus than the rest of the population.
I suspect this is due to relative poverty meaning self isolation is difficult, poor quality food and lack of access to health care.

And terrain of poor health due to poverty.for anyone who has been to the US in the last 30y, it is clear that the black population has paid a heavy price to Latin America immigration
New york in the 1990 had a strong black working class in services: restaurant, cleaners etc.
It was shockingly absent from my last visit there 2y ago, all these positions filled by latinos.. Sadly it did not work as the escalator model used to...and the black community, as a whole did not lift itself up, just got pushed aside by the latest immigrant wave.
This is in NE USA, elsewhere it is ever worst

 

[jbocker]

Saw a stat today. If you are black you are 2.5 times more likely to die from coronavirus than the rest of the population.
I suspect this is due to relative poverty meaning self isolation is difficult, poor quality food and lack of access to health care.

I recall seeing that early in New York stats.
In Australia I understand the Aborigines in the past have suffered VERY poorly from colds/flus particularly in our early history. There are very likely some inherent susceptibility to coronaviruses generally, similarly to the aged. Poor health support and access without doubt contributes immensely.
Thankfully McGowan in WA was very quick to protect our aboriginal communities and regions. And for good reason has made the Kimberley region the last to have internal 'border' restrictions removed.

 

[rederob]

Saw a stat today. If you are black you are 2.5 times more likely to die from coronavirus than the rest of the population.
I suspect this is due to relative poverty meaning self isolation is difficult, poor quality food and lack of access to health care.

That does not square with official data - it's nowhere near that high on a whole of nation basis.
Both whites and blacks have a greater pro rata share of deaths. Asians and Latinos have substantially lower pro rata death rates.

 

[wayneL]

Interesting stats right here, it's not making the case that the US is a failed or rogue state, just thought it was an interesting place to post this.

 

[macca]

Interesting stats right here, it's not making the case that the US is a failed or rogue state, just thought it was an interesting place to post this.

I am surprised China is not on there, the wealthy elite in China would blitz the average income of their subsistence farmers of which there are millions

 

[wayneL]

I am surprised China is not on there, the wealthy elite in China would blitz the average income of their subsistence farmers of which there are millions

Here's the figures I found
China median 20,942 mean 58,544
Hong Kong median 146,887 mean 489,258

What would be an interesting stat would be the mean of the top 1 or 2%... Or even 5% of the countries mentioned

 

[Bill M]

Who are these people? No ID, no one knows.

Unidentified, Armed Federal Troops Raise Accountability Concerns

 

[Bill M]

Police chief to Trump: Please, keep your mouth shut if you can't be constructive

 

[rederob]

Who are these people? No ID, no one knows.

They were unemployed last week and the government has not had time to issue them with their identification - trust me:

 

[rederob]

The idea that you can open a country to business before you have a major disease under control is not sound, but what would America know?
According to the John Hopkins website data on new COV19 infections, yesterday's number was the highest since May 7, and the present trend is again rising.
That's what you get when you put money ahead of people, and throw common sense to the wind.

 

[spooly74]

Who are these people? No ID, no one knows.

Unidentified, Armed Federal Troops Raise Accountability Concerns

Probably an agency from the bolded list below.

While the Democrats and the media anticipated getting the optics they so desperately craved—of Trump sending in soldiers with bayonets fixed, charging at the “peaceful protesters”—what they got instead was the sudden appearance of a bunch of federal tactical units from the FBI, the Secret Service, the Drug Enforcement Administration, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, the U.S. Marshals Service, the Bureau of Prisons, and other agencies, in full gear, many with no rifles, and certainly no bayonets.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/trump-and-barr-fooled-them-all_3386565.html#