Why are we saying 'sorry' to the aboriginals?!

[Julia]

Thanks to Cuttlefish for insightful and reasonable remarks. These comments pretty much reflect the repeated entreaties of Noel Pearson who emphasises the destructive effects of bleeding hearts promoting in the Aboriginals a victim mentality where there is no expectation of them actually having to take any responsibity for their situation.

 

[numbercruncher]

Maybe we should swap apologies ?

Non aboriginals can apologise for past offences and Aboriginals can apolgise for current offences and public insults?

Tasmanian Aboriginal Centre worker Adam Thompson lit the Australian flag in Launceston's City Park to the cheers of about 100 people, rallying against what they call "Invasion Day".

http://au.news.yahoo.com/080129/21/15o1h.html

 

[Nyden]

Oh, & I just want to say that I'm not racially biased in any sense.

I feel this sort of emotive resentment towards all people unjustly on welfare. You can find posts of mine months back with very similar angry responses of mine with regards to "the dole" ... :

 

[rederob]

First off, their current problems of abuse, drug abuse, & unemployment are not tied to this stolen generation situation.

How true.
It was our (white fella) gift to them after we stole their land.

Sorry!

 

[Nyden]

How true.
It was our (white fella) gift to them after we stole their land.

Sorry!

Yes, but that isn't the issue here!!

We already have compensation in place of that ... look at all their perks.

 

[rederob]

Yes, but that isn't the issue here!!

We already have compensation in place of that ... look at all their perks.

You have very little idea of what you are talking about.

The issue is that we - through Rudd - are saying sorry.

But you want to turn this into a racial issue, dont you?

I think "stealing children", irrespective of motives, is a pretty low act.
That's very different to removing them from harm, which society has an obligation to enforce.

 

[Nyden]

You have very little idea of what you are talking about.

The issue is that we - through Rudd - are saying sorry.

But you want to turn this into a racial issue, dont you?

I think "stealing children", irrespective of motives, is a pretty low act.
That's very different to removing them from harm, which society has an obligation to enforce.

Oh, I actually thought your last post was done in sarcasm! I apologize.

First of all, no. Rudd is apologizing purely for the stolen generation, not for the land / other wrong doings.

I was merely making the point that their current plight has nothing to do with what we are apparently apologizing for.

I believe the end always justifies the means. If we can give children a better, & improved upbringing irregardless of the emotions of the parents / other parties involved, I feel this to be something we must do. The most important thing is the children, not the parents.


Secondly, I think the fact that this issue is so controversial is tied to the fact that many other people, including myself do not wish to apologize for this, & therefore without first putting it to vote Rudd has no bleeding right to apologize on my or anybody else's behalf.

I tend to look at this from more of a cold, & statistical view point I guess. Statically speaking; their children are in greater danger when compared with the average child. This isn't a race issue, but a locational issue ... & it just so happens the regions of community with these dangerous incidence levels of child abuse, happen to contain mostly people of aboriginal descent, which by logic proves to be nothing more than coincidence


Edit;
Furthermore, no, not a race issue - a cultural issue, perhaps.
I dislike their culture, yes. I believe they should integrate into what is currently our society. They can maintain their heritage, their beliefs, but I expect them to abide by our laws, our morals, & our ethics.

If this means them packing up, & moving to the city to look for work; then so be it.

 

[Kauri]

Edit;
Furthermore, no, not a race issue - a cultural issue, perhaps.
I dislike their culture, yes. I believe they should integrate into what is currently our society. They can maintain their heritage, their beliefs, but I expect them to abide by our laws, our morals, & our ethics.

If this means them packing up, & moving to the city to look for work; then so be it.

Which part of thier culture do you know enough about to dislike??

 

[Stormin_Norman]

doesn't anyone realize the amount of legal claims going to be filed..

being sorry for the general state of the aboriginal population is not hard. and if it is - there will never be a solution.

will there be legal claims as a result of a government statement of sorrow for the plight of our indigenous australians? i am not a lawyer, so i would not speculate, but was the intent at the time to do harm?

 

[Nyden]

Which part of thier culture do you know enough about to dislike??

Not their culture in essence of their belief system, but rather the attitudes of a lot of their youths. No jobs, drug abuse, relying on welfare ... & so forth.

I dislike our youth culture as well though : So that isn't saying much!

That part of their "culture" I do know a lot about, statistically at least. Studied it for 2 years

 

[Mofra]

Regardless of whether people agree or not, Rudd (whom I did not vote BTW)included an apology as an election issue, as such he has a mandate that allows him to apologise on behalf of the government of Australia.

Incidently if you want to know just how difficult an issue Indigenous Affairs is, try reading the local reaction to Howards "incursion" in the top end. Many tribal elders can't agree on the issue, so how can we expect Joe & Jill Average of Middle Suburb, Urbansville to agree on the merits of Indigineous Affairs?

 

[agro]

Regardless of whether people agree or not, Rudd (whom I did not vote BTW)included an apology as an election issue, as such he has a mandate that allows him to apologise on behalf of the government of Australia.

Incidently if you want to know just how difficult an issue Indigenous Affairs is, try reading the local reaction to Howards "incursion" in the top end. Many tribal elders can't agree on the issue, so how can we expect Joe & Jill Average of Middle Suburb, Urbansville to agree on the merits of Indigineous Affairs?

don't get me wrong...i am all for saying sorry

but the fact of the matter is these compensation claims that are going to come through... tax funded which should be spent elsewhere

rudd = santa claus

 

[Nyden]

Regardless of whether people agree or not, Rudd (whom I did not vote BTW)included an apology as an election issue, as such he has a mandate that allows him to apologise on behalf of the government of Australia.

Incidently if you want to know just how difficult an issue Indigenous Affairs is, try reading the local reaction to Howards "incursion" in the top end. Many tribal elders can't agree on the issue, so how can we expect Joe & Jill Average of Middle Suburb, Urbansville to agree on the merits of Indigineous Affairs?

Yes, but are we as a nation sorry? Many people voted for Rudd on other merits ... ie work choices, not on this apology. If we take a poll on this forum, will we see a mass of support for this? Hard to say.

 

[Stormin_Norman]

Not their culture in essence of their belief system, but rather the attitudes of a lot of their youths. No jobs, drug abuse, relying on welfare ... & so forth.

I dislike our youth culture as well though : So that isn't saying much!

yes. i think the culture you see is our culture displayed in the indigenous community; without the backing of a few hundred years of the protestant work ethic.

 

[Nyden]

yes. i think the culture you see is our culture displayed in the indigenous community; without the backing of a few hundred years of the protestant work ethic.

And I absolutely believe we need to help them to adjust to integrate into our society, but they seem to not want to.

But, once again - that isn't what this apology is for. That's an entirely different issue.

 

[Mofra]

Yes, but are we as a nation sorry? Many people voted for Rudd on other merits ... ie work choices, not on this apology. If we take a poll on this forum, will we see a mass of support for this? Hard to say.

Nyden, quite possibly not; however given this is a forum for investment & trading you would expect some form of right-leaning bias. I'm sure if a poll was conducted on a social justice website the results would be similarly scewed.

 

[Kauri]

Not their culture in essence of their belief system, but rather the attitudes of a lot of their youths. No jobs, drug abuse, relying on welfare ... & so forth.

I dislike our youth culture as well though : So that isn't saying much!

That part of their "culture" I do know a lot about, statistically at least. Studied it for 2 years

Just as well you weren't around in the days of flower power.. you would have disliked a whole generation of "australians" :mexico:
Cheers
............Kauri

 

[Nyden]

Just as well you weren't around in the days of flower power.. you would have disliked a whole generation of "australians" :mexico:
Cheers
............Kauri

Damn dirty hippies, living in their communes. Now of course, those same people are all driving around in their BMW's, & sipping their lattes in town

 

[moXJO]

Just as well you weren't around in the days of flower power.. you would have disliked a whole generation of "australians" :mexico:
Cheers
............Kauri

Yes the same hippies that would spit on our vietnam vets(yay for love), and who mostly ended up being the most selfish generation of all

 

[Stormin_Norman]

And I absolutely believe we need to help them to adjust to integrate into our society, but they seem to not want to.

i will agree with you on 'have difficulty' rather then 'not want to' integrate into our society. wish i had the problem's solution; but i don't.