Why are we saying 'sorry' to the aboriginals?!

[2020hindsight]

roland
halfcast is an ugly word surely
mixed race maybe.

"he who believes in racial superiority is suffering from a pigment of the imagination".

In any case, if they were stolen from their mother, I would have thought it was a no-no yes?

 

[Julia]

Did they own it in the first place or were they just roaming around on it and living off it. Even with their occupation they fought over some of it and displaced one another from time to time. I paid sweat and toil to own my little bit as did all the early settlers. That is all in the past. Let's move on. Abo or whitey or those in between we have to live together. It is time to be one nation with equal rights.Everyone should do their bit and earn their place. Apologise for any past wrongs then move on.
If you think you stole their land you are free to give back anything you stole. Just don't speak for others.

Great post, Nioka. Thank you.

Rederob, Nioka makes a very valid point, doesn't he? Do you own land?
Have you offered it back to the Aboriginal people?

 

[2020hindsight]

Had any kids stolen lately Julia ?

lets keep it on thread eh?

 

[roland]

roland
halfcast is an ugly word surely
mixed race maybe.

"he who believes in racial superiority is suffering from a pigment of the imagination".

In any case, if they were stolen from their mother, I would have thought it was a no-no yes?

hindsight, do you know any of the so called "Stolen Generation"?

It's pretty easy being outside of the experiences and following media representations and creating opinions based on such.

I have friends and relatives that have first hand experiences, and truthfully the picture being painted now is a little distorted - don't believe every everything you see on the TV

 

[2020hindsight]

hindsight, do you know any of the so called "Stolen Generation"?

It's pretty easy being outside of the experiences and following media representations and creating opinions based on such.

I have friends and relatives that have first hand experiences, and truthfully the picture being painted now is a little distorted - don't believe every everything you see on the TV

I closer to them that you might imagine.

But to be honest, I'm basing most of my research on what I read in the "Bringing them home report"
read it?
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/special/rsjproject/rsjlibrary/hreoc/stolen/

 

[Julia]

Had any kids stolen lately Julia ?

lets keep it on thread eh?

It's all related.
I can't help being amused at the irony in you telling anyone to keep anything on thread!!!
If a moderator feels either Nioka's or my comments are inappropriate, I have no doubt the posts will be removed.

 

[2020hindsight]

one word
empathy
look it up

 

[cordelia]

hey - since you knew they were there cordelia , I guess I can delete that post as "common knowledge".

They again, since Disarray admits it was used , the post might as well stay as proof that things were not all "lace and laughter" for these stolen kids (as has been almost constantly inferred around here)

Actually I didn't know they were there but I assumed they were because you made reference to them. Maybe I should visit the museum..what do you think? Please advise..waiting for new instructions.

 

[2020hindsight]

Actually I didn't know they were there but I assumed they were because you made reference to them. Maybe I should visit the museum..what do you think? Please advise..waiting for new instructions.

Cordelia
You've given me no indication of what you think of the topic of stolen kids and saying sorry.
Await with interest.

PS you'll find the cat of nine tails mentioned in that report about "Bringing them home"
I assume you know what that is. - it's what triggered this whole movement to say sorry and heal the wounds for these poor "kids" / now adults.
sorta like civilised people should do.
Assuming we are civilised that is.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/special/rsjproject/rsjlibrary/hreoc/stolen/

 

[cordelia]

Cordelia
You've given me no indication of what you think of the topic of stolen kids and saying sorry.
Await with interest.

Actually I don't have to give you my opinion..whatever gave you that idea.

 

[2020hindsight]

I love fence sitters
they are so
irrelevant

 

[cordelia]

ok I have had enough of this nonsence. I have spent the last 12 years of my life living in west Africa and I love those people. Unfortunately I can't return in the short term but I plan to. My husband and I set up a school for the cost of a good night out here in aus.

Aborignals just blow it away. More charity is not the answer. I am not a racist..far from it...no body goes hungry here...spend some time in Africa...

Saying sorry.... give me a break...its an excuse for more freeloading.

 

[cordelia]

I love fence sitters
they are so
irrelevant

you are a wand polisher

 

[bunyip]

I offered the original owners nothing for the land I occupy.
I suspect the people before me did the same, and the people before them.
Sorry.

OK....my turn.
Why did I steal their land?
I DIDN'T!

And if you disagree with me then that's fine....you're entitled to your opinion and I have absolutely no intention of engaging in a never-ending debate to defend my viewpoint or to attempt to discredit your's. I see it as a pointless debate which does nothing to help aboriginal people. Far more productive is to focus on their needs and their problems, and discuss ways of helping them out of the hole they're in.

But I can see that you, rederob, have an entirely different viewpoint about the land-stealing issue. You sincerely believe that you stole their land, and in fact you've gone as far as to say sorry.

Now, this raises a couple of interesting points.

First point.....
I think your 'sorry' message is wasted on a forum like this. I doubt if we have many aboriginal forum members who will see your apology and pass it on to their people.
If you truly want to get your message out to the people you're apologising to, then I'm sure you can think of better and more effective ways of doing so.
Suggestions......
* Take your message of apology on to national television.
* Contact the various media outlets, newspapers etc.
* Address aboriginal organisations and tell them how sorry you are.
* Contact someone like Noel Pearson and enlist his help in getting your apology out there to his people.

Second point...
Since you're so convinced that you stole their land, why don't you give back to them the part or parts you believe you stole? Your house - sell it for removal, or if the dwelling is not relocatable, pull it down and sell it bit by bit to one of those businesses that deal in second hand timber and other building materials. Keep the proceeds for yourself, afterall, you didn't steal the house, only the land it's built on.
Now you can either hand over the title deeds to an aboriginal organisation, or you could sell the land and hand over the proceeds instead.
But that mightn't be such a good idea - there's always the risk of the money being squandered and aboriginals getting little benefit from it.
Perhaps a better plan would be to once again consult a responsible person like Noel Pearson, and get his views on the most effective ways your donation could be used to help his people. Maybe you could build a much-needed facility such as a health care centre. Or perhaps you could fund a job-training programme.

You own more than one piece of real estate? No problem.....sell your other holdings as well and use the proceeds for the betterment of aboriginal people.
Make sure your actions get maximum publicity - chances are you'll become quite famous here in Australia and possibly overseas as well. Best of all, other people may be inspired to follow your example. The whole thing could snowball and the spin off for aboriginal people could be enormous.

These are radical steps that would no doubt place you in considerable financial hardship. But that's OK - a small consideration only - the compensating factors will be that you've cleared your conscience by making recompense for the land you believe you stole, and at the same time you'll have the immense satisfaction of knowing you made a significant and very worthwhile contribution towards helping aboriginal people.

Please keep this forum updated on your progress towards liquidating your assets and injecting the bulk of the funds into aboriginal coffers.

 

[theasxgorilla]

I'll throw you a curve ball. My family dates back the second fleet. We were convicts from two lineages. Somewhere along the way two of my ancestors were pardoned and given land, by an authority that may not have had the 'right' to give it. Do we still have to stay sorry?

 

[arminius]

since this thread is about saying sorry to the stolen generations one might have thought the contributers may have read the bringing them home report or at least researched a little about the issues at hand. this obviously hasnt happened and ive just wasted 15 minutes of my life reading some of the most pathetic and ill informed garbage ever on a public forum.

do us all a service and find out why the kids were taken, why only half caste, the effect on those families, and the heartache you might feel if someone waltzed into your home and took your son or daughter.

and if anyone here cares to label me a bleedin heart we can always meet somewhere and discuss the practicalities of bleeding

we are a young nation still coming to grips with a chequered history. id like to think that in another hundred years we have resolved most of the issues and eradicated most of the problems facing ab society and, by extension, our society as well.

saying sorry may not solve everything, but is not a bad starting point.

 

[justjohn]

I hope our fearless leader Mr.Rudd makes this joyious event a public holiday. I can have a day off work so I can join my poor hard done aboriginal mates on there special day:

 

[2020hindsight]

cordelia
ok - thanks for telling us where you stand on this. - for coming down off the fence so to speak. Actually you weren't fence sitting - more like playing some strange game - but no matter - After which you spring some nasty comments lol.

Anyway, the conversation/ discussion becomes a bit more meaningful now.

Try reading the "Bringing them home report" in your spare time, maybe. (I take it that you haven't, since you weren't aware of the cat of 9 tails).
I posted a few excerpts on another thread.

Why do I challenge Julia on this? - because she refused even to read those excerpts.?

Why do I challenge people who argue against saying sorry because there might (repeat might) be a dollar sign attached? - Because to do otherwise is to argue like the board of James Hardie.

Is the Fed govt likely to be as vulnerable as some claim? Highly unlikely, because the Feds only had juristiction over NT (as we just saw in the recent intervention) - and the States have already apologised. But if the feds are still vulnerable, and that is the cost of justice, ( a la James Hardie I guess) then so be it. (for mine).

Do I know Abs? - yes used to work with them in rural Qld. great people.
My grandfather was born breach birth out near Birdsville with only an Ab midwife. And only had Ab friends to play with for a few years until his brother came along and joined them.

Do I know people from stolen generation? not really- but the son of one.
Is he entitled to compensation? no.

I don't know if she does, - suspect she does - but Does his mother have a legitimate cause for concern about her treatment? - or a chip on her shoulder as we whiteys like to call it? I'm amazed she doesn't have a chip on both shoulders. She's been carrying a world of pain around. Bludy torture we put themthrough. Forget waterboarding. I'd take waterboarding for a month in preference to having my kids stolen.

:topic
You work in Africa.
My daughter is really looking forward to working in Ghana with orphans. Made her day the other day to meet someone who has already worked in an orphanage there. Also a lady / nurse just back from Rwanda saying that it is a delightful place these days - sure they have a museum (there's that word again) to the ethnic cleansing disaster.

She made the observation that the first thing they do to tourists and/or health workers arriving there is to take away all the unneccesary plastic bags and environmentally unfriendly stuff - "way out here in the middle of Africa, and they are miles ahead of us on respecting the environment" - her comment, with enthusiasm for the place written all over her face .

PS . Why did I refer to "Aussie of the Year" to roland? - because it's jargon these days for "off thread" it's a running joke that started over the long weekend here ( Australia Day etc) - spread like grounsel across 3 threads - ended up a confused entanglement of discussions about Lee Kernaghan, Steve Irwin, Germaine Greer, Michael Mori (by this stage a standing joke that it was synonymous with "a confused thread") Maybe that bit of background helps understand those posts.

 

[disarray]

"The Aboriginal Oral History Archive will testify to the atrocities committed against our people through separation laws, policies and practices, and will ensure that the genocide against our people cannot be denied."

quite emotional, as well as being part of a broader swipe at colonisation. once again any minority group with an axe to grind can go an find a part of history they don't like, get submissions from a tiny minority of the population and make a report damning whatever it is you want.

this whole thing is rubbish because it is just an emotional one-sided whine fest. i am perfectly happy to accept whatever report the aborignes throw at our society as their point of view, and they have to be willing to accept reports thrown back at them, thats the way it works.

one side damning another (which is effectively gagged by political correctness) is not a basis for progress, it is a basis for people digging in and objecting on principle. it gets all emotional then which is precisely what we need to avoid because emotions are unpredictable and illogical, and good policy generally doesn't come this way.

and if anyone here cares to label me a bleedin heart we can always meet somewhere and discuss the practicalities of bleeding

gogo internet tough guy

 

[Julia]

cordelia

Try reading the "Bringing them home report" in your spare time, maybe. (I take it that you haven't, since you weren't aware of the cat of 9 tails).
I posted a few excerpts on another thread.

Why do I challenge Julia on this? - because she refused even to read those excerpts.?

Well, 2020, no I haven't read all 700 pages of the report. I have however read a considerable amount and I have listened to countless hours of discussion on Radio National on the whole subject.

Do you know one of the reasons I haven't said I have read even one word of it, 2020? Because I strongly object to your telling me what I should and should not read, plus what I should and should not think. This whole thread is about you sitting in moral judgment on those of us whom you perceive do not wholeheartedly agree with your every loaded and emotive word.

I suggested you might find the talk I heard on Radio National by Noel Pearson interesting. I didn't insist you had to listen to it in order to form your views. I have no idea whether you tried to seek it out (my efforts to that end are ongoing via the Cape York Institute) and it's not my business.
I simply thought it would offer you a different perspective on your views from a highly respected Aboriginal leader.

I'd suggest to you that we are all responsible adults here, we have all had various experiences in life which equip us to some extent to form opinions.
And we are entitled to do that. We do not need your approval to express such opinions.

And I am very tired of you painting me as someone who disagrees with any apology etc etc. I've repeatedly said I'm more than happy for the government to say sorry. I know that if I feel aggrieved by a hurt that has been done to me, that hurt is lessened by the issuing of a genuine "I'm sorry'.

I also want to say that when you make personal remarks implying personal judgments of individual members, whether it be myself or others, this is inviting disrespect. Surely it's possible to present your views without feeling the need to make personal remarks.