The Australian Greens party

Mofra · 18 August 2010

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Julia said:
Disagree. Although I was unhappy with the last period of the Howard government, overall I think they did a pretty good job. Pity that John Howard felt it necessary to be such an acolyte of George W, the result being we are still engaged in two wars we should have had nothing to do with.

I wasn't a fan of the Howard government squandering the boom time gains with a lack of infrastructure spending and a lack of economic reform post GST (I was pro-GST for the record), but I do admit to regarding Costello as the greatest leader this country never had (in my time at least).
Certainly a contrast to the current leadership vacuum we're experiencing with the major parties at the moment (Swan & Hockey as the alternate choices for treasurer! God help us).

Julia said:
Actually, that is indeed an area where the Greens would probably be positive, Explod. As I recall, they were against any commitment to either Afghanistan or Iraq?

They were - and IIRC polls at the time showed more than 50% of Australians were against the Iraq war as well, and I don't think the Afghan War has ever held too much popularity with the public at large either.

Afghanistan is unwinnable - the region has been in an almost perpetual state of war for decades and the entire might of the Soviet Union failed in Afghanistan; how will the US with a much lower commitment, along with a rag tag bunch of small contributions of other countries & whatever mercenary tribes they can pay, possibly compete?

The only regular standing army to actually defeat an insurgent militia since WW2 was the British army in Malaysia - and that was by virtually closing down every village in the country during nightfall. This is an impossibility in Afghanistan.

Ageo · 18 August 2010

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

wayneL said:
Jesus! We'd have to ban the lot!!

Haha i know ay.......

Woodsy58 · 18 August 2010

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

explod said:
In the past 20 years or so both ALP and Liberal have made wonderfull promises and delivered on very little in improving the overall quality of life. We work longer hours, we sit in trafic jams longer, there seems to be less disposable income for holidays and time out with the family and so on blah blah. So lots of money is not necessarily good.

The Greens make certain statments that are interpreted in certain ways but maybe they will not live up to the promises that many of you detest (even though they have not been tested) but come up with the oposite and things become improved.

No one can say for sure. We can say for sure that ALP and Liberal on past performance is bad.

Explod
I can see where you are coming from, but if you vote for the Greens on Saturday I swear I will put a curse on KRL!.

prawn_86 · 18 August 2010

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

For me the Greens are looking like the only major party alternative and i will probably be voting for them

Despite the fact i disagree on a a few of their economic policies, they are the only party putting forward actual change, with Libs and Labor essentially the same thing now, and independents never going to get enough votes to do anything. As Explod says, whether they can pull it off is a different question.

drsmith · 18 August 2010

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

prawn_86 said:
For me the Greens are looking like the only major party alternative and i will probably be voting for them.

I hope you are looking forward to a carbon tax because Bob Brown at the end of his NPC presentation has said one will be introduced during the next term.

explod · 18 August 2010

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Julia said:
Explod, the Greens have made it very clear that when they have the balance of power they will insist on having their demands met in exchange for passing legislation. e.g. they WILL have an ETS and it will be one which pays no regard to the economic consequences as long as they believe it's putting a high enough price on carbon.

Christine Milne is even more shrill and radical than Bob Brown.

The only plus for the Greens imo is that they are socially progressive.

Absolutely agree with Greens policy on this. We actually need to stop all progress now and learn to live a whole new way if this planet is to be saved for 2 or 3 generations hence.

Carbon is enemy No 1 Julia.

drsmith · 18 August 2010

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Bob Brown has stated that the Greens would not block supply. He has however stated that there would be a carbon tax during the next term of government even though both major parties have ruled it out.

What then could he horse trade for his carbon tax ?

Calliope · 18 August 2010

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

explod said:
Absolutely agree with Greens policy on this. We actually need to stop all progress now and learn to live a whole new way if this planet is to be saved for 2 or 3 generations hence.

Carbon is enemy No 1 Julia.

If you are a typical Green's supporter, and you are the type of person Labor is sucking up to for preferences, the next three years will be very nasty indeed.

For a country whose economy is almost wholly dependent on it's extractive industries, what you say is sheer stupidity.

explod · 18 August 2010

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Calliope said:
For a country whose economy is almost wholly dependent on it's extractive industries, what you say is sheer stupidity.

If we shut our bourders we could provide enough food to feed ourselves and of course we can shelter ourselves. The Pakistani's would be happy with our country right now. We are just so lucky in Australia.

Under Maslow's hierarchy of needs we need no more to be healthy and well. Think right outside the square Calliope and think about some real change.

drsmith · 18 August 2010

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Shutting our borders is rejecting what's outside the square.

wayneL · 18 August 2010

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

explod said:
Absolutely agree with Greens policy on this. We actually need to stop all progress now and learn to live a whole new way if this planet is to be saved for 2 or 3 generations hence.

Carbon is enemy No 1 Julia.

When will you people understand that what Aus/NZ does is irrelevant on the grand scale of things. All "The Red.... errr, Greens" policies will achieve is the export of development and jobs to the third world.

This will have zero effect on purported anthropogenic climate change.

explod · 18 August 2010

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

wayneL said:
When will you people understand that what Aus/NZ does is irrelevant on the grand scale of things. All "The Red.... errr, Greens" policies will achieve is the export of development and jobs to the third world.

This will have zero effect on purported anthropogenic climate change.

Too true, no place for idealism. However there are other countries doing much bigger things towards greening, and, we have to start somewhere IMO. The leaders would have you believe that we have a big effect on other countries.

And this attitiude that it wont have an effect or wont work is worse than that of doomsayers.

wayneL · 18 August 2010

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

explod said:
And this attitiude that it wont have an effect or wont work is worse than that of doomsayers.

A Non Sequitur and a statement without foundation.

moXJO · 18 August 2010

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

wayneL said:
When will you people understand that what Aus/NZ does is irrelevant on the grand scale of things. All "The Red.... errr, Greens" policies will achieve is the export of development and jobs to the third world.

This will have zero effect on purported anthropogenic climate change.

Thank you....
Taxing us on carbon emissions to save the planet
How about investing in clean coal technologies that China and India might actually use and make a difference.
You know if the shooters party actually brought out a policy on shooting greens, then they would swing my vote and provide a useful service.
I've got an idea how about those wanting an ETS can pay for it.
And as for Bob Brown, he can't even manage his own finances let alone be trusted with policies that govern the country. God forbid they manage to control the senate.

noco · 18 August 2010

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

explod said:
Too true, no place for idealism. However there are other countries doing much bigger things towards greening, and, we have to start somewhere IMO. The leaders would have you believe that we have a big effect on other countries.

And this attitiude that it wont have an effect or wont work is worse than that of doomsayers.

Yeah, well for a start just look at France, they cut down on carbon emmissions with 70 nuclear power stations, as had the USA 100, UK 34, Russia 30, Japan 70, Canada 24 and China has joined the nuclear party as well. Actually there were 439 nuclear power plants around the world at 2005.

So tell me, with Bob Brown's policy to close down coal fired power stations and coal mines, how does he plan to have base load power stations without coal or uranium. Please don't tell me renewable energy, because it just won't work.

He plans to build 500 kph rail links between Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane. Will they be run on solar power?

Calliope · 18 August 2010

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

moXJO said:
.
And as for Bob Brown, he can't even manage his own finances let alone be trusted with policies that govern the country. God forbid they manage to control the senate.

Gillard says "it's the economy stupid" and yet she's prepared to allow Brown, who is economically illiterate, to be in a position where he can veto government legislation.

Smurf1976 · 18 August 2010

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

explod said:
If we shut our bourders we could provide enough food to feed ourselves and of course we can shelter ourselves. The Pakistani's would be happy with our country right now. We are just so lucky in Australia.

Under Maslow's hierarchy of needs we need no more to be healthy and well. Think right outside the square Calliope and think about some real change.

Cutting off food exports means that someone else goes hungry. Either that or someone else clears more land to expand global food production (ie negative for the global environment).

That's certainly thinking outside the square, that I would agree. I wouldn't call it overly positive however.

Julia · 18 August 2010

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

explod said:
Absolutely agree with Greens policy on this. We actually need to stop all progress now and learn to live a whole new way if this planet is to be saved for 2 or 3 generations hence.

Carbon is enemy No 1 Julia.

Oh God! I've tried really hard to be charitable about your utter naivete, Explod, but this is just too much.

drsmith said:
Bob Brown has stated that the Greens would not block supply. He has however stated that there would be a carbon tax during the next term of government even though both major parties have ruled it out.

What then could he horse trade for his carbon tax ?

Good question. Bob Brown and Christine Milne are now talking quite as though they will be The Government, making all the decisions, such is their hysterical delight in anticipation of having the balance of power.
We can only hope some sanity will be retained by the government and the opposition voting together to exclude the Greens in order to get reasonable legislation through.

wayneL said:
When will you people understand that what Aus/NZ does is irrelevant on the grand scale of things. All "The Red.... errr, Greens" policies will achieve is the export of development and jobs to the third world.

This will have zero effect on purported anthropogenic climate change.

The warmists just do not get this, Wayne. They have absolutely no idea about whether any sort of Australian ETS will make any difference to anything at all, but it makes them feel all warm and fuzzy to be able to say "well, at least we're doing something".

moXJO said:
Thank you....
Taxing us on carbon emissions to save the planet
How about investing in clean coal technologies that China and India might actually use and make a difference.
You know if the shooters party actually brought out a policy on shooting greens, then they would swing my vote and provide a useful service.
I've got an idea how about those wanting an ETS can pay for it.
And as for Bob Brown, he can't even manage his own finances let alone be trusted with policies that govern the country. God forbid they manage to control the senate.

But the Greens' fans don't spare a millisecond's thought for the economy, moXJO. They just want to feel good, even if they're not quite sure why.

Smurf1976 · 18 August 2010

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

explod said:
Absolutely agree with Greens policy on this. We actually need to stop all progress now and learn to live a whole new way if this planet is to be saved for 2 or 3 generations hence.

Carbon is enemy No 1 Julia.

Is carbon really the enemy? Or is it too many people using too many resources, fossil fuels included, that are the real problem?

One termite won't cause the house to fall down anytime soon. It's when you've got a whole lot of them that you've got a problem. There's 6.5 billion people and counting at present, each of them chewing through the world's resources.

Smurf1976 · 18 August 2010

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

explod said:
Too true, no place for idealism. However there are other countries doing much bigger things towards greening, and, we have to start somewhere IMO. The leaders would have you believe that we have a big effect on other countries.

And this attitiude that it wont have an effect or wont work is worse than that of doomsayers.

Which significant countries have actually shifted to cleaner energy in a signficant way (assuming we're talking about climate change as the issue here) other than by means of swapping one unustainable energy source for another, collapsing their economy or by simply exporting their emissions?

I can't think of a single country that has actually done it.

The Australian Greens party

Mofra

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Calliope

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Julia

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