The Australian Greens party

[drsmith]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Think the "Greens" are "radicals", check out the;

Australian Sovereignty Party (ASP) http://www.sovereigntyparty.org.au/

So, he wants to charge economic rents for land and resources and abolish all other taxes.

One slight problem.

What is he going to buy the land back with in the first place ?

 

[Mofra]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Well, it sounds like too much fun to not step into the breach at this point and play devil's advocate:

Between the Greens and Islam I would hate to see what this world of ours will be like in 20 or 30 years time. I certainly won't see it as I'll be popping up daisies by then and that may well be the safest place to be.

Sorry, but I can't help finding scaremongering such as this hilarious.
We've been through all this just over a century ago - when the Irish were denigraded in the same manner as muslims today; they were seen as a "race" of violent, lazy drunks who could not assimilate into society in a civilised manner.
We had the scaremongering that associated the mass migration of Europeans in the 50s and 60s as well; I'm not sure too many people would be worried by the neighbours eating pasta these days.

As for the economic argument - I trust the veracity of the Australian business community to keep the greased up wheels of capitalism turning. The economic reforms of the 70s through to the early 90s are just too far entrenched for any new hybrid government to completely destroy - the Australian economy has survived huge government waste under successive labour and liberal governments, chronic underspending on infrastructure over the past two decades, and as much as Green policies may (will) damage individual industries I have not seen a policy from any party in Australia likely to gain representation in the Senate that would cause major changes to the Australian financial landscape.

Do I have too much faith in the Australian community and economic character? Perhaps, but history suggests that as a nation we tend to emerge from any challenge stronger than we were.

 

[IFocus]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Well, it sounds like too much fun to not step into the breach at this point and play devil's advocate:



Sorry, but I can't help finding scaremongering such as this hilarious.
We've been through all this just over a century ago - when the Irish were denigraded in the same manner as muslims today; they were seen as a "race" of violent, lazy drunks who could not assimilate into society in a civilised manner.
We had the scaremongering that associated the mass migration of Europeans in the 50s and 60s as well; I'm not sure too many people would be worried by the neighbours eating pasta these days.

As for the economic argument - I trust the veracity of the Australian business community to keep the greased up wheels of capitalism turning. The economic reforms of the 70s through to the early 90s are just too far entrenched for any new hybrid government to completely destroy - the Australian economy has survived huge government waste under successive labour and liberal governments, chronic underspending on infrastructure over the past two decades, and as much as Green policies may (will) damage individual industries I have not seen a policy from any party in Australia likely to gain representation in the Senate that would cause major changes to the Australian financial landscape.

Do I have too much faith in the Australian community and economic character? Perhaps, but history suggests that as a nation we tend to emerge from any challenge stronger than we were.

I would vote for you Mofra....................but after reading this thread I will sorely be tempted to vote for the greens LOLRATF

 

[Mofra]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

I would vote for you Mofra

Democracy is officially dead

 

[nioka]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Democracy is officially dead

Not dead but very very sick. We are now governed by a minority few that are pandered to so that one party or the other will get the power they crave.

Maybe Pauline Hanson was right. What we needed to do was become one nation, not a nation that had different rules for some just because they want to be different. The regular posters on ASF have shown that doing that is an impossible task. There are too many one eyed participants that will never see the point of view of someone else as having any value.

Back to the stocks.....................................................

 

[drsmith]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Just heard on ABC news 24 that the Greens agree with the unions with a super profit tax on the banks.

 

[moXJO]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Just heard on ABC news 24 that the Greens agree with the unions with a super profit tax on the banks.

Won't that just affect workers super as well, but offer plenty of cash to govt

 

[drsmith]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Won't that just affect workers super as well, but offer plenty of cash to govt

An economic rent for resources makes sense (it's paid now in the form or royalties)n but this sort of nonsense is just socialism gone mad.

All the banks would do is pass on the cost to their customers.

 

[explod]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

An economic rent for resources makes sense (it's paid now in the form or royalties)n but this sort of nonsense is just socialism gone mad.

All the banks would do is pass on the cost to their customers.

Stuff the banks, they control everything need to nationalise them. This country boomed under the Commonwealth and State Banks.

Unwittingly doing it in the US, why not here.

 

[drsmith]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Economic rationale ?

EDIT:
Australia's 4 largest banks have a market capitalisation of ~$265bn.

How would the government pay to nationalise them ?

 

[explod]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Economic rationale ?

EDIT:
Australia's 4 largest banks have a market capitalisation of ~$265bn.

How would the government pay to nationalise them ?

The capitalisation is the unit value of shares on issue. Banks exists on deposits and loans. When this is stripped down they have nothing. If things get crook here the government may be forced to take on the loans to save a full collapse of our system. Just a thought of course.

More than 100 banks in the US have gone to the wall in the last 12 months because of loans that cannot be repaid.

Interesting that the quantative easing announced by the /fed Reserve overnight is to basically provide (read that as print) funds to buy back loans to in effect try to save banks.

The GFC had at its root packaged loan sludge which was found to be valueless. Pension funds and Municipalites here in Australia lost money from this stuff.

 

[wayneL]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Stuff the banks, they control everything need to nationalise them. This country boomed under the Commonwealth and State Banks.

Unwittingly doing it in the US, why not here.

Discredited ideology revisited.

Like Hell!!

 

[Calliope]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

The Stock market is very afraid that the Labor/Greens will soon be running the country into the ground.

Shares in Australia's biggest bank were down $1.12, or 2.12 per cent, at $51.63 at 12.02pm.
"What disturbs me is the reaction to Commonwealth Bank," said Mr Smith.
"Why the bank is down two per cent on average, particularly when it's put in a good report and $1.70 dividend.
"Why we've knocked Commonwealth Bank down is beyond me ... there's got to be an overriding reason, and I think it's the election."

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/business/bre...on/story-e6frfkur-1225903902698#ixzz0wHGdEB17

 

[Purple XS2]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

When I started this thread I thought it would be an opportunity for Greens supporters to rally to the cause to defend their beloved party ...

Missed this thread till now, C: happy to oblige.
Discl: I qualify as a greenie, but I do not pretend to speak for anyone but myself. I'm a bit on the outer amongst most people in the Party!! that I've spoken to.

Surely there must be others who support the concept that destroying the Australian economy by imposing crippling taxation on the extractive industries is a guarantee of a rosy future for this country.

I don't advocate crippling the extractive industries, but I would advocate 2 things: 1. Slowing it down a little - are we supposed to mine everything? Now? What extracted wealth can our future generations look forward to?
and 2: getting some more money out of what we mine now. Does the stuff in the ground belong only to the shareholders of the mining companies (who may or may not be aussies), or does it belong to the nation?

On economic philosophy generally, there can neither be a sensible economy nor a civil society worth living in without managing the environment. Until now economic progress as we've known it has simply outsourced the environmental costs to the future, and we now, for the first time in human history, are becoming aware of the fact that the future is closing in on us - the free ride is over. I see it as an aspect of our civilization maturing. It's inevitable, and it's our historic burden and opportunity to be the generation that grasps this fact.

Where are the tree huggers, the whale watchers, the fruit bat lovers? Or have you all seen the light and decided to be responsible citizens?

Just for the record, I don't hug trees, haven't watched whales, and would quite happily take a potshot at a fruit-bat when their numbers become a nuisance.
Am I responsible citizen now?

Regards,

P.

 

[drsmith]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

The capitalisation is the unit value of shares on issue. Banks exists on deposits and loans. When this is stripped down they have nothing. If things get crook here the government may be forced to take on the loans to save a full collapse of our system. Just a thought of course.

More than 100 banks in the US have gone to the wall in the last 12 months because of loans that cannot be repaid.

Interesting that the quantative easing announced by the /fed Reserve overnight is to basically provide (read that as print) funds to buy back loans to in effect try to save banks.

The GFC had at its root packaged loan sludge which was found to be valueless. Pension funds and Municipalites here in Australia lost money from this stuff.

Are you suggesting that in nationalising the banks, the government pays nothing to existing shareholders for their shares ?

 

[explod]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Are you suggesting that in nationalising the banks, the government pays nothing to existing shareholders for their shares ?

Read up on the wonderful Modern Day US of A, shareholders in banks to big too fail but did lost the lot.

I am saying the way the money dilution is going, even here in Australia we should be watching the world financial space.

The government merely either picks up the pieces or provides replacement banking facilities.

On my reading of a number of financial texts from 2005 I sold my shares in Macqurie, NAB, Babcock and Brown. Only hold selective mining stocks now.

Just my thoughts and maybe fairy tales.

 

[drsmith]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Do you reckon the government should get in first and tax them to death ?

 

[explod]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Do you reckon the government should get in first and tax them to death ?

Banks under our current system are vital to the entire financial sector and the government has to hold it together.

However, what is playing out overseas is horrifying, but with shed tools as bright as Swanny, I just shudder for our future.

 

[drsmith]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Banks under our current system are vital to the entire financial sector and the government has to hold it together.

However, what is playing out overseas is horrifying, but with shed tools as bright as Swanny, I just shudder for our future.

That's another story, but it's hard to see the Greens managing the economy any better given some of their policy suggestions.

 

[explod]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

That's another story, but it's hard to see the Greens managing the economy any better given some of their policy suggestions.

Agree, a great example of that was Labor under Whitlam. Having been in the political wilderness from the end of WW2 they had no idea, but those terms, albeit cut short did prepare them for the time of the Hawke and Keating arrival, whether you think they were successful or not. A successful change in toto takes a long time and experience. It cannot be done in theory.

My concern is that we are running out of time and the current Government and Opposition do not seem to be able to put good governance before self interest.