The Australian Greens party

[drsmith]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

That doesn't, by default, make the Greens the answer.

 

[Calliope]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

If Labor get up on Saturday (and I think they will) it will be on the back of Green preferences. I can understand those on the extreme left preferring the Geeens and naturally Labor would be their second preference.

But the recent big swing to the Greens, has come from well healed people living in the leafy suburbs, who once would have been conservative voters. Now, because they can afford it they are attracted to the woolly, pie in the sky, feel good programs like saving the world from carbon and saving the whale.

These thoroughly irresponsible people are blinded to any consideration that what could be best for Australia would be to have a well managed economy.

 

[drsmith]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Anyone considering voting Green needs to cut the green skin to see the colour of the flesh below.

 

[noco]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Anyone considering voting Green needs to cut the green skin to see the colour of the flesh below.

Yes, that is becoming more evident day by day and it is not just in Australia.

I would like to know if Bob Brown is receiving any international ideology instructions from an upper source and from where.

 

[Smurf1976]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

What did they claim to be the basis for opposing renewable energy in Tasmania?

The Greens owe their political existence originally to campaigning against hydro-electric development in Tasmania. That is the basis on which the predecessors of the Greens was formed and on which Bob Brown was elected to parliament.

Without wanting to start that debate here, I will simply point out that if you are going to oppose not just one very well known dam but virtually every significant hydro scheme that could be built anywhere in the entire state, whilst also being on record as opposing large scale wind farms, viewing gas development as "wasteful" and (presumably) opposed to using local coal from within a National Park then the ultimate outcome was inevitable.

At some point either we were going to be in the dark or we were going to use someone else's resources to supply energy. And for practical purposes that left either importing electricity and/or gas from Victoria or, in the unlikely event that construction of such a plant didn't result in a Green blockade, building a coal-fired plant fuelled with imported coal (realistically from NSW).

To now complain about the effects of past actions of themselves is my objection. They do indeed have a valid point about wild rivers and also about burning coal. But you can't have it both ways - the only reason we're using power from Victorian brown coal in Tasmania is as a direct consequence of the past actions of environmentalists.

In short, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Julia]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Thanks, Smurf. This is exactly the sort of nonsense we can expect from the Greens when they have the balance of power in the new government.

 

[Smurf1976]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

But the recent big swing to the Greens, has come from well healed people living in the leafy suburbs, who once would have been conservative voters. Now, because they can afford it they are attracted to the woolly, pie in the sky, feel good programs like saving the world from carbon and saving the whale.

I'd be incredibly rich if I had just one $ for every time I've heard "...buying green votes in Sydney and Melbourne..." over the years.

And it works. Labor has been winning elections this way since the 1980's. Save this, stop that and shut down something else in a rural area in order to gain the Green vote (either directly or via preferences) in Sydney and Melbourne. It works just about every time.

To be fair though, Labor and Liberal play the same games. Indeed all politics is a game, the reason I decided not to pursue it myself.

 

[chrisalex]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

You are Quite right about 'The Greens' and coupled with Ms. Gillardine another Socialist It does make for quite a scary outlook. I also noticed the back room boys have removed all her Socialist endeavours from the ALP web sight. The daughter of a Welsh miner, she has a severe working class chip on her shoulder,
the Robin Hood syndrome. If they do gain power, wait for the 'spin' and the new taxes on "those fat cats" the mining companies. I find it astounding these intelligent people cannot see the damage they will inflict on this country. If only the public could see that countries like Greece and Spain have 'Bureaucratic Socialist' governments. But the average lazy Labor voters don't read newspapers. I did overhear something encouraging, a girl about 18 saying to a friend, "Labor people want things for themselves, but Liberals want what is good for the country".
good punting, chrisalex

 

[Calliope]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

I don't think anyone can dispute that Bob Brown and his gang of Luddites are a massive impediment to Australia's progress.

If it wasn't for the Labor party being so dependent on Green preferences, it would make sense for the $42 billion being borrowed for the NBN project, to be diverted towards building nuclear power stations.

I think the majority of the population would opt for reliable clean energy in the future over providing extravagantly high speed broadband to the bush.

 

[Ageo]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Dont forget to vote below the line this saturday and preference the greens last

 

[explod]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

In the past 20 years or so both ALP and Liberal have made wonderfull promises and delivered on very little in improving the overall quality of life. We work longer hours, we sit in trafic jams longer, there seems to be less disposable income for holidays and time out with the family and so on blah blah. So lots of money is not necessarily good.

The Greens make certain statments that are interpreted in certain ways but maybe they will not live up to the promises that many of you detest (even though they have not been tested) but come up with the oposite and things become improved.

No one can say for sure. We can say for sure that ALP and Liberal on past performance is bad.

 

[drsmith]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

And the Greens if ever they were in control would be worse.

 

[Calliope]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

I thought you had retired explod.

We work longer hours, we sit in trafic jams longer, there seems to be less disposable income for holidays and time out with the family and so on blah blah

 

[explod]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

I thought you had retired explod.

I'm just the old codger, many family and friends doing it hard. Being retired does not put one on an island Champ.

 

[explod]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

And the Greens if ever they were in control would be worse.

How do you know that ?

In fact nobody really does, but the ones we do know are no good in my view so perhaps its time to try some we dont'.

 

[Smurf1976]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

I find it astounding these intelligent people cannot see the damage they will inflict on this country.

I can indeed see the problems with Labor. But reality is that we are almost certain to get either a Labor or Liberal government, and based on all I know about Abbott he seems the more dangerous of the two.

Hence I'll be voting Labor this Saturday. Not because I support the party and its' policies, I don't, but because they seem the "best" of a very bad bunch.

Fundamentally, none of the 3 significant parties comes anywhere near representing my views and I suspect that applies to a large portion, perhaps the majority, of the population.

What would I prefer? Freedom not authoritarian leaders frightening the population into submission, actual free enterprise not government-controlled markets with investment banks and other sponges propped up by the tax payer, sensible progress rather than the save everything versus mine/log/dam the lot debate. And so on.

In short, restore freedom, implement justice and stop pandering to vested interests.

There's nobody significant in Australian politics that I'm aware of advocating such a path. They're all somewhat authoritarian, all seemingly neither outright socialists nor supporters of actual free markets and enterprise, all incapbable of dealing with the question of sustainability, all happy to do nothing about the farce that our concept of justice has become. In short, all pandering to some special interest group rather than governing for the benefit of the country as a whole.

To me, Labor seems the least dangerous amongst what is actually on offer.

 

[Julia]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

And the Greens if ever they were in control would be worse.

How do you know that ?

In fact nobody really does, but the ones we do know are no good in my view so perhaps its time to try some we dont'.

Explod, the Greens have made it very clear that when they have the balance of power they will insist on having their demands met in exchange for passing legislation. e.g. they WILL have an ETS and it will be one which pays no regard to the economic consequences as long as they believe it's putting a high enough price on carbon.

Christine Milne is even more shrill and radical than Bob Brown.

The only plus for the Greens imo is that they are socially progressive.

 

[Julia]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

In the past 20 years or so both ALP and Liberal have made wonderfull promises and delivered on very little in improving the overall quality of life. We work longer hours, we sit in trafic jams longer, there seems to be less disposable income for holidays and time out with the family and so on blah blah. So lots of money is not necessarily good.

The traffic jams are the responsibility of State governments' failing to keep up with necessary infrastructure. Unreasonable to blame the Feds for this.
And if you're working longer hours, change your job, manage on a bit less money. The whole 'we must make more and more money' mantra has become a culture unto itself, ignoring the need for balance between work and leisure.

The Greens make certain statments that are interpreted in certain ways but maybe they will not live up to the promises that many of you detest (even though they have not been tested) but come up with the oposite and things become improved.

Yeah, right. Much more likely, imo, that they will be far worse than we have imagined they could be.

No one can say for sure. We can say for sure that ALP and Liberal on past performance is bad.

Disagree. Although I was unhappy with the last period of the Howard government, overall I think they did a pretty good job. Pity that John Howard felt it necessary to be such an acolyte of George W, the result being we are still engaged in two wars we should have had nothing to do with.
Actually, that is indeed an area where the Greens would probably be positive, Explod. As I recall, they were against any commitment to either Afghanistan or Iraq?

 

[Ageo]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Any party that continues on insisting on taking away other peoples freedoms and liberties to me is a party that should be abolished......

 

[wayneL]

Re: The Greens - The New Radical Socialists

Any party that continues on insisting on taking away other peoples freedoms and liberties to me is a party that should be abolished......

Jesus! We'd have to ban the lot!!