Resisting Climate Hysteria

[Sean K]

I understand the PM probably needs to travel around via the RAAF for security and convenience. He's a very busy and important man. But, this is almost Davos-like. And, #BlackOutBowen has no excuse. The World is about to explode and Australia's CO2 is responsible, right? The hypocrisy is strong in this one.

 

[wayneL]

I understand the PM probably needs to travel around via the RAAF for security and convenience. He's a very busy and important man. But, this is almost Davos-like. And, #BlackOutBowen has no excuse. The World is about to explode and Australia's CO2 is responsible, right? The hypocrisy is strong in this one.


View attachment 173808

What they do speaks so loudly, I can't hear what they say.

 

[IFocus]

Scientists struggle to explain ‘really weird’ spike in world temperatures

Extreme temperatures have shattered the grimmest expectations of a warming world and tested climate models.

www.smh.com.au

That was a good read this bit was interesting

"What he means is that many of the industrial processes that release warming gases like methane and carbon dioxide into the atmosphere also release sulphur dioxide and nitrogen dioxide. These gases, while dangerous, also have a short-term cooling effect because they reflect some heat back into space.

As a result, says Hansen, some of our pollution is masking the heat we have already locked into the system, and as we strip out the pollution the mask is being lifted and warming is accelerating."

 

[IFocus]

Meanwhile back in the real world read the below then understand WA's water run off calapase

Perth has been enjoying a glorious stretch of weather, but experts warn the cloudless skies could come at a cost

Perth has just endured its driest six-month spell since records began almost 150 years ago, with less than 22 millimetres of rain to the end of March. What does this mean for our precious water resources?

www.abc.net.au

Perth Streamflow | Current & Annual Statistics - Water Corporation WA

View current & historical streamflow data and learn about the impact climate change has had on streamflow into our dams

www.watercorporation.com.au

 

[sptrawler]

That was a good read this bit was interesting

"What he means is that many of the industrial processes that release warming gases like methane and carbon dioxide into the atmosphere also release sulphur dioxide and nitrogen dioxide. These gases, while dangerous, also have a short-term cooling effect because they reflect some heat back into space.

As a result, says Hansen, some of our pollution is masking the heat we have already locked into the system, and as we strip out the pollution the mask is being lifted and warming is accelerating."

Yes like I keep saying it isn't a precise science that is why a lot of white noise and hysteria doesn't help.

All it does is give ammunition to those who want to blow holes in the debate.

IMO it is a bit like the transition to renewables, it isn't a case of this is better than that, or point scoring.

It is a human obligation to our grandkids and our greatgrandkids, that if we have the technology to improve the air on our planet, it is our obligation to do so in the most sensible way.

That's why ideology needs to step aside and cool sensible debate is needed not politics or emmotional nonsense.

 

[sptrawler]

Meanwhile back in the real world read the below then understand WA's water run off calapase

Perth has been enjoying a glorious stretch of weather, but experts warn the cloudless skies could come at a cost

Perth has just endured its driest six-month spell since records began almost 150 years ago, with less than 22 millimetres of rain to the end of March. What does this mean for our precious water resources?

www.abc.net.au

Perth Streamflow | Current & Annual Statistics - Water Corporation WA

View current & historical streamflow data and learn about the impact climate change has had on streamflow into our dams

www.watercorporation.com.au

Yes down South things are getting dire, I have family and friends in Manjimup, Boyup Brook, Mumballup and rain needs to come soon. They are carting water.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

down South things are getting dire, I have family and friends in Manjimup, Boyup Brook, Mumballup and rain needs to come soon. They are carting water.

it's April .... answer to prayer

 

[sptrawler]

it's April .... answer to prayer
View attachment 173831

My sister will be happy if she has got rain.
I'm in Sydney and it is as humid as hell. Lol
From W.A not used to this.

 

[Smurf1976]

some of our pollution is masking the heat we have already locked into the system, and as we strip out the pollution the mask is being lifted and warming is accelerating

That concern's been around a long time, remember reading about that back in the 1990's.

Sulphur dioxide (from fuel combustion) combined with water vapour (from the same fuel combustion) not only reflects light directly but under some weather conditions (cool, humid) it also propagates clouds albeit somewhat acidic ones.

Note the emission from the stack partially condenses once it's further away, that's the water vapour condensing and the end product is highly reflective in terms of sunlight.

Power station was running at 120MW output at the time, burning heavy fuel oil at the rate of about 460 litres per minute. For scale reference the stack is 110m tall from ground level to the top. Photo taken in 2002 by myself.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

Yes down South things are getting dire, I have family and friends in Manjimup, Boyup Brook, Mumballup and rain needs to come soon. They are carting water.

It would be fair to say SW WA is missing out on rain over summer.
Some parts of the country have been doing well; Channel Country likely to flood Lake Eyre

 

[mullokintyre]

It would be fair to say SW WA is missing out on rain over summer.
Some parts of the country have been doing well; Channel Country likely to flood Lake Eyre
View attachment 173852

Thats an interesting graphic when one considers that that during this period we are in a La Nino with a warm phase in the ENSO cycle.
This is normally associated with much drier conditions along the east coast, which does not seem to correlate with the above.

Mick

 

[Dona Ferentes]

Thats an interesting graphic when one considers that that during this period we are in a La Nino with a warm phase in the ENSO cycle.
This is normally associated with much drier conditions along the east coast, which does not seem to correlate with the above.

Mick

I think you've got that back to front. or misgendered. La Niña or El Niño.

 

[mullokintyre]

I think you've got that back to front. or misgendered. La Niña or El Niño.

I was trying to be gender nuetral.
Mick

 

[basilio]

Yes like I keep saying it isn't a precise science that is why a lot of white noise and hysteria doesn't help.

All it does is give ammunition to those who want to blow holes in the debate.

IMO it is a bit like the transition to renewables, it isn't a case of this is better than that, or point scoring.

It is a human obligation to our grandkids and our greatgrandkids, that if we have the technology to improve the air on our planet, it is our obligation to do so in the most sensible way.

That's why ideology needs to step aside and cool sensible debate is needed not politics or emmotional nonsense.

The reality of current climate change caused by human emissions of GG gases is now recognised as overwhelmingly a scientific fact. I'm not suggesting you are labeling this as ideology SP but that is certainly how its painted by the various people/orgs who trash the science and the physical evidence of a rapidly warming planet.

Cool sensible debate ? I'm not quite sure about what the topic of this debate should be. Hopefully it won't be about whether human GG are causing the rapid increase in temperatures. It could be about how much resources our society throws at halting and reversing CC. It could be about which which ways we tackle the problem and how to make them work quickly. It may be about how to ensure it is done as cost effectively as possible. One of the debates should be around acknowledging sea levels are rising and working out how we withdraw from current coastal development.

Unfortunately I can't remember the last time there was cool sensible debate about almost anything let alone dealing with a situation that is undermining everything, everywhere all at once. That may seem over the top. I suggest it is far closer to reality than we are prepared to understand or accept.

 

[IFocus]

Thats an interesting graphic when one considers that that during this period we are in a La Nino with a warm phase in the ENSO cycle.
This is normally associated with much drier conditions along the east coast, which does not seem to correlate with the above.

Mick

I posted a while ago the surf forecaster that talked about El Nino not firing the why's and how's also talked why so much rain on the east coast in a El Nino year and that La Nina returning which means ongoing rain east coast but the important part good surf east coast, bad southern and western coasts.

Edit explained here: https://www.swellnet.com/news/swellnet-analysis/2024/02/27/slip-sliding-la-nina

 

[Dona Ferentes]

I posted a while ago the surf forecaster that talked about El Nino not firing the why's and how's also talked why so much rain on the east coast in a El Nino year and that La Nina returning which means ongoing rain east coast but the important part good surf east coast, bad southern and western coasts.

Edit explained here: https://www.swellnet.com/news/swellnet-analysis/2024/02/27/slip-sliding-la-nina

interesting/ good article. To me, the changes are not binary; just on the rainfall, there's been persistent trough activity in central parts of the continent this year, and the Decadal drift may be part of that.

All in all there seems to be either a case of too much data or not enough data.

 

[IFocus]

interesting/ good article. To me, the changes are not binary; just on the rainfall, there's been persistent trough activity in central parts of the continent this year, and the Decadal drift may be part of that.

All in all there seems to be either a case of too much data or not enough data.

Yes Craig is very good so are others that post on that site, Craigs forecast of the cold water upwelling in the eastern Pacific Ocean happened.

 

[Smurf1976]

Cool sensible debate ? I'm not quite sure about what the topic of this debate should be

My observation is that the overwhelming majority of public debate and discussion around this subject has fallen into one of the following categories:

1. Factually correct in pointing out that x is bad but completely missing the point that the proposed alternative has the same problem.

2. Blatant politics. Vote for whoever and nothing will physically change but we'll stop complaining about it.

3. Efforts to implement some unrelated agenda. Eg political ideologies or to prohibit something that isn't about climate change, just something that someone doesn't like.

4. Pure profit. Give us your money and it'll make at best a token improvement in the problem. It will however make far more than a token contribution to our directors' bonuses.

5. Refusal to accept needed technologies as part of the solution, most notably but not limited to hydro and nuclear.

With a hefty dose of hypocrisy added to the mix. Let's all fly to the other side of the world, individually each in our own private jet, to talk about the need for restrictions on the power rating of domestic vacuum cleaners and the importance of public transport.

Therein lies the problem. Science aside, the response to the issue has been relentlessly and almost completely hijacked by an assortment of politics, vested interests and off topic agendas. End result, the whole thing's a complete and utter mess which in my view stands little chance of redemption at this point.

 

[basilio]

My observation is that the overwhelming majority of public debate and discussion around this subject has fallen into one of the following categories:

1. Factually correct in pointing out that x is bad but completely missing the point that the proposed alternative has the same problem.

2. Blatant politics. Vote for whoever and nothing will physically change but we'll stop complaining about it.

3. Efforts to implement some unrelated agenda. Eg political ideologies or to prohibit something that isn't about climate change, just something that someone doesn't like.

4. Pure profit. Give us your money and it'll make at best a token improvement in the problem. It will however make far more than a token contribution to our directors' bonuses.

5. Refusal to accept needed technologies as part of the solution, most notably but not limited to hydro and nuclear.

With a hefty dose of hypocrisy added to the mix. Let's all fly to the other side of the world, individually each in our own private jet, to talk about the need for restrictions on the power rating of domestic vacuum cleaners and the importance of public transport.

Therein lies the problem. Science aside, the response to the issue has been relentlessly and almost completely hijacked by an assortment of politics, vested interests and off topic agendas. End result, the whole thing's a complete and utter mess which in my view stands little chance of redemption at this point.

I can see your points Smurf. Very dark. I don't think (want to believe..) it is as totally disastrous as you paint it. However I'm also bitterly aware that actions to date have barely scratched the surface of what is required. On top of that we are still going in exactly the opposite direction in many cases. Fossil fuel exploration and use. Relentless expansion of forest clearings for mono-culture plantings or cattle farms.

I don't believe there is just one solution or one way to make the required difference. But I can't see how we will turn things around - short of some cataclysmic collapse of almost all human activities. Not something to think too long about.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Solution to Global Warming and Planetary degradation from 1993
I recently re read a book by Ben Elton called " This other Eden" . It was published in 1993 and was essentially about a titanic struggle between World Wide Eco warriors, Mother Earth and Plastic Tolstoy who represents unbridled self serving business.

It is a very funny, very dark and exceptionally insightful piece of political/social satire. In fact many of Smurfs points come through the writing. If you can't be stuffed to actually read the book the wiki summary is useful. But you would be missing a bit of a treat.

Some worthwhile reviews on Amazon. The link wouldn't stick.. You would need to go there directly

This Other Eden (Elton novel) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Amazon product ASIN B00A6QRKU6

 

[Sean K]

Yikes!

Not as bad as two jets to the Hunter for a winery tour to promote global boiling though.

The federal Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water has spent almost $40,000 on “sunglasses for extreme climate” and almost $27,000 on a “planning day” for senior executive staff at a Canberra hotel, commonwealth tender documents reveal.

The department has confirmed the sunglasses were for the Australian Antarctic Division, and said the $26,950 “SES planning day”, held at the QT Hotel, was for 160 staff members, working out to a cost of almost $170 a head.

Details published on the AusTender website show the department awarded a $39,318 contract, spanning January 25 to May 1, to sunglasses manufacturers Spotters Shades, based in the Melbourne suburb of Bayswater, for “PPE – Sunglasses for Extreme Climate”.

The company’s website prices its sunglasses at between $260.00 and $319.95 a pair, at which prices the department would have been able to purchase between 120 and 150 pairs.

Founded in 1948, the AAD currently has some 300 staff members, with responsibility for administering the Australian Antarctic Territory, conducting scientific research in the area, and maintaining a presence in the region through permanent stations, field bases and the provision of transport, communication and medical services.

The AusTender website shows the tender for the “SES planning day” was initially for $11,950, but this was subsequently increased to $26,950.