Israel in the Gaza Strip
- Thread starter BradK
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rowie you disagreed on my point that humas is getting wiped militarily and may risk becoming less popular for it, and put the view they would be more popular for doing so.. you claim they are resisting, but i think they actually were the aggressors in this particular battle, i cant see them resisting and winning the battle myself then being voted in by the population when the toll of civilian lives increase and hamas wont relent on the rockets into israel..
surely now the military is in their own back yard hamas can now show their military supremacy and get on with the victory over the israeli army? if they cant then i think they are fighting a battle they will not win and may not be as popular for doing so
i question the military objectives here of hamas, they are seriously getting annihilated and their civilian population they oversee is not getting any relief from them at all. i would have thought it would have made good sense to cease the battle that imho they cannot win. i cannot see them driving back the israeli army and air force out of their region and out of their air space.
surely the objective of the battle is to stay alive? or is this a suicide mission?
i cant see where hamas is going to win here, they are heading for a position where only unconditional surrender may be the only outcome.
surely the importance of firing rockets at civilians in israel at the expense of your own population, the military and the infrastructure of gaza itself has to be weighed up in a military objective way at some stage?
i think the suffering they have put their own populace under right now is tragic. i cannot see the israeli objective changing and see them retreat this minute.. its a harsh battle when you choose to hide in a fire from an civilian environment and a highly populated urban environment.
Good point, I agree.
Without going into the recent history of events in too much depth -
1. Hamas were not the aggressors in this war. How they can be perceived as aggressors in this war is beyond me.
2. The suffering that Gazans are currently experiencing has been a direct consequence of Israeli action. Majority of Gazans know and believe this, they do not believe for a second that it is caused by Hamas.
3. Gazans have been under an embargo/blocakade for the past year where even basic medical supplies into Gaza are denied. Life in Gaza has become intolerable. Add to that constant raids by IDF forces into Gaza over the years and indiscriminate shootings on Gazans by IDF troops. In 2008 alone, 73 Gazan minors (under the age of 15) were killed directly by IDF troops (most with fatal gunshots).
Now please try to understand living under these circumstances how you would feel about Hamas firing rockets into Israel from a Gazan perspective. Have they no right to self defense either? Mind you, these rockets from Hamas have resulted in the deaths of 16 Israelis over an 8 year period. This is tragic but never are the numbers mentioned simply because they would clearly show how heavy handed Israels response really is.
Hence under these circumstances perhaps you can begin to understand why Hamas will most likely continue to have support in Gaza. They are the only force (albeit pathetically weak) resisting this unlawful occupation. Much like the vietnamese farmers were during the Vietnam war in spite of the most overwhelming force that was the US military at the time. Also remember that Palestinians have lived through Israeli aggression for the past 60 years. This war is by no means a one off event. Yes, the intention of this Israeli assault is amongst other reasons to bring the population down to its knees, but it is precisely these sorts of actions that will make Gazans dig deeper and resist further.
To understand this, I think you have to acknowledge and understand the suffering that Gazans go through because of the Israeli occupation and how they feel it is also theyre right to defend themselves. Hell they are not even allowed to leave the hell hole prison that Gaza has turned into.
Sigh.
So we are wrong and you are right. I could just kick myself.
Another balanced grumpy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky
He is highly respected scholar, and quite political. He has written books on this subject.
Read his childhood history, and you will understand why he understands this conflict better and his opinions matter more than either of us. From the above wiki link.
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So how does his background make him an expert on Middle-East issues? Being Jewish doesn't necessarily make one an Israeli.
My response is that people who are highly political should get into politics.
Perhaps it's just me but it's the glazed over eyes of the mini-academics who wet themselves when he speaks that bug me. Sort of the same feeling I get when Oprah throws cars at the audience.
No. Chomsky should stick to parsing sentences. Apart from that, there is no balance.
I think you missed the point. Reread the whole passage. I was talking about this :
In a discussion of the irony of his staying in the 1980s in a Jesuit House in Central America, Chomsky explained that during his childhood, "We were the only Jewish family around. I grew up with a visceral fear of Catholics. They're the people who beat you up on your way to school. So I knew when they came out of that building down the street, which was the Jesuit school, they were raving anti-Semites. So childhood memories took a long time to overcome.
By any stretch of imagination it is futile to argue that his opinion does not matter. His opinion as a philosopher of our times does matter. You might not agree with me but most people would.
Read up he debated Israel issue with prominent scholars. here is a transcript of one of his debates.
http://www.chomsky.info/debates/20051129.htm
lol
OK so I'm an iconoclast. But I can't join in when too many neurons are swaying in the same direction. I'm getting that feeling now.
I'd go to a debate where Noam debates another heavyweight, but I don't want to know about his bias without some sort of containment.
That said, I'm not unaware of his smarts.
I'd go to a debate where Noam debates another heavyweight, but I don't want to know about his bias without some sort of containment.
That said, I'm not unaware of his smarts.
In case you missed, I added a debate for you in my last post.
http://www.chomsky.info/debates/20051129.htm
A good website to get to know his views on a wide range of issues.
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Wow the big hitter Noam Chomsky. I wonder if he grew up playing baseball. Im sure all those other scary kids beat him to a pulp when he was kid. Yeah right!!! :bs:
He probably agrees with that elitist preacher from the UN, Dr. Richard Falk that suicide bombings are a 'valid' form of resistance.
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What a positive message on humanity that video is - great to see that individuals are prepared to have the courage to not repeat the mistakes of history.
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Well, what is the point? That his experiences on the other side of the Atlantic with the Gentiles makes him an expert on the Middle East? Or that religious conflict is the sole reason for conflict in the Middle East.
To me he resembles one of those Yanks with Irish ancestry from Boston who go on about the IRA while in Dublin...
The point is, he knows how religion can be used by people for political gains, and the young impressionable minds are most susceptible to such aggression.
Mate if you don't know Noam Chomsky views, why don't read them? His views are well respected all around the world. He is not much liked in conservative America for his views. But I find them quite interesting.
A good intellectual always propose solutions, which he has done many times and debated such solutions. An example of that I posted earlier.
I think this thread has gone off topic, so I will stop posting about Noam...
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Wow, this thread really has gone off topic. Now you're arguing about who is allowed to have a valid opinion or something to say on the matter. I wonder if you will allow the Zionists (say Ben-Gurion or Netenaya) to express an opinion. Probably.
