Gordon - how about the entire history of massacres spanning back to the start of human civilisation? Oh wait a second, this is a thread about israel in gaza... in any case, how would all the other killings justify the massacre that is taking place now. Again, the logic beggars belief...
Israel in the Gaza Strip
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Gordon - how about the entire history of massacres spanning back to the start of human civilisation? Oh wait a second, this is a thread about israel in gaza... in any case, how would all the other killings justify the massacre that is taking place now. Again, the logic beggars belief...
Seriously mate, the only twit is you.
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Yeah and many jewish people have been massacred for centuries in Europe. Its like saying you cant stand a Zionist, not that Zionism is exclusively based in Israel. Jewish people have been attacked in many places in the past and not just by Muslims. Was Carlos the Jackal a Muslim? Was he born in Israel or Palestine? Was he a descendent of Shem or Noah? No, he was a terrorist!
It is a terrible war just like any other and its a tragedy that so many people have died.
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no it doesn't. this isn't just a single isolated incident of israel storming into gaza and kicking heads for no reason at all, it is part of a much wider, much longer struggle between competing ideologies and belief systems. the justifications both sides employ have mounted over a great deal of time, a huge mound of bodies and deep emotional and psychological scarring, and to be perfectly honest rowie your narrow minded bodycount obsessed emotional blathering is starting to get tedious.
omg children are dying!!1! lets make a huge issue out of something that is happening all over the world, but just focus on one instance, and for bonus points lets focus on one where the children who are dying are being used as weapons of war (physical war, propaganda war and psychological war) by a terrorist organisation which publicly states its desire to commit genocide.
Yes and we should shake with indignation at each and every massacre and war that has and continues to go on equally and not try to justify them. This massacre is currently taking place, if another one happens which requires another thread to start, I will be the first to express my distaste, irrespective of whether the victims are jews, muslims, christians or whatever! U get my point????
read my response to gumby and hopefully get my point. I dont care in any case.
Read my response to
Well, no. Why wait for another thread? Why not argue rationally in this one?
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Absolutely I get your point. I commend the fact that you respect human rights!
But just remember in years to come when your own civil liberities or human rights have been whittled down to almost nothing and robbed by the actions of terrorists.
Israel had an agreement with Hamas just six months back. They knew their slogan back then, it did not just appear out of thin air during this war.
I bet there will be a truce again, as this fight cannot go on. It will finish with the elections in Israel.
I also strongly believe that underhand Hamas leaders are using this to get Arab sympathy, which ironically they have failed to achieve. A large factor in all this debate is the dubious role played by the major players in this game at the cost of Gazans.
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...or-egyptand-syrias-arab-cold-war-1334257.html
P.S. I warned you the article was from a liberal paper and was presenting a solution, which I thought was interesting.
Exactly why they should be fought at every opportunity.
What on earth do u mean???
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Let me clarify, Israel has been the brunt of major terrorist activities to their embassies world wide. To dismiss those deaths is not fair. In counting israeli deaths versuses hamas deaths, one has to include those too.
I'm not saying their isn't tremendous death right now. That is indisputable. I agree 100% israelis response is overwhelming. However, again to what degree does someone or a country say "enough is enough" and the then try to annihilate the opponent.
One can argue for both sides til your blue in the face. But no matter who you support or agree with, one cannot deny Hamas is just as guilty of stoking the flames of a fire.
Is there a certain number that defines a massacre? So when hamas blows up a bus and 12 people die, are they not massacred?
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umm ... our government is already whittling down civil liberties and human rights under the excuse of protecting us from terrorism. (see various anti-terrorism and anti-money laundering legislation). Remember Dr Haneef?
This is a circular argument.
Israel: Stop publically disavowing our right to exist and we can talk.
Hamas: Cool.
Discussion ensueth...
For some reason you didn't understand my penultimate post. I can't help that.
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Your right cuttlefish. Kevin Andrews made a big mistake in that case.
But why did the Australian Parliament need to pass this kind of legislation in the first place? What was their policy intent? To inconvenience the average person in the street and put a microscope on everyone going about their business peacefully?
Firstly, i have not dismissed any deaths. A suicide bomber blowing up a bus killing a mere 2 israelis is a horrendous act that should be criticized and culprits brought to justice. What I am so pissed about is the current situation, the seemingly random bombardment of a civilian population and the use of white phosphorous on a civilian population. You see those photos of what seem like tens of flares that light up the sky over gaza, those are white phosphorous flares, what can be considered a chemical weapon which creates horrific injuries to those who contact it. Now what I am sick of seeing is innocent people being made to suffer this way. And what I am sick of reading is people trying to justify this. There is absolutely no justification of this - it does no one any good. Terror breeds terror. You want to ensure a steady stream of hamas maniac suicide bombers into israel, the actions of israel has almost guaranteed it. Like I said, I would say the same if it was done to israel.
Your logic is extremely confusing and alot of the time doesnt make sense. Like your aetheism reasoning in previous posts, quite a load of tripe.
rowie, I made the point that in order to have constructive discussions, both sides have to at least agree that each should exist. Saying so is the first step, not the second.
Now you can disagree with that if you like; mayk did, but he had the reasoning and good intelligence to produce an argument that rebutted what I said. Good for him - that way I might learn something. You, on the other hand, produce no better argument than that I am the twit. Well, I may be, but it doesn't make your posts any less irrational and worthless.
Now we have to wait for the next massacre - and thread - before you plausibly switch sides - because you are entirely driven by emotion.
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Elections are easily won when governments get tough on terror.
Candidates who promise the toughest stance are most likely to be elected.
Then, as the consequences of getting tough come home to roost, the voting public realise they could have made a mistake.
If I was living in a country surrounded by Arabs I would want my government to be strong and decisive in its actions. And I would want to be proud in my nation's military and its capacities, as shown by actions in the field of battle.
I don't know when exactly a military response becomes "disproportionate", however it may have been "justified" at the outset. But after a few weeks of "battle" when the only people seemingly getting killed are the "enemy", the penny has well and truly dropped. Cap this off with significant evidence that women and children account for many of the dead and wounded, and it gets a bit difficult to believe the cause is still "just", let alone justifiable.
Perpetuating wrongs will never achieve a right.
And the Gazan conflict is an extension of many wrongs.
I don't have an answer.
But whatever it may be I doubt it will be achieved by more killings - from either side.
The Northern Island "solution" may provide the parties with some lessons they could all learn from. However, until there is a real willingness to want to "share" in their collective destinies I can't see that negotiations will achieve any lasting peace.
Unfortunately the Middle East has a sad history of assassinating leaders who stood on platforms advocating a peaceful solution to the Palestinian question.
Shame!
Candidates who promise the toughest stance are most likely to be elected.
Then, as the consequences of getting tough come home to roost, the voting public realise they could have made a mistake.
If I was living in a country surrounded by Arabs I would want my government to be strong and decisive in its actions. And I would want to be proud in my nation's military and its capacities, as shown by actions in the field of battle.
I don't know when exactly a military response becomes "disproportionate", however it may have been "justified" at the outset. But after a few weeks of "battle" when the only people seemingly getting killed are the "enemy", the penny has well and truly dropped. Cap this off with significant evidence that women and children account for many of the dead and wounded, and it gets a bit difficult to believe the cause is still "just", let alone justifiable.
Perpetuating wrongs will never achieve a right.
And the Gazan conflict is an extension of many wrongs.
I don't have an answer.
But whatever it may be I doubt it will be achieved by more killings - from either side.
The Northern Island "solution" may provide the parties with some lessons they could all learn from. However, until there is a real willingness to want to "share" in their collective destinies I can't see that negotiations will achieve any lasting peace.
Unfortunately the Middle East has a sad history of assassinating leaders who stood on platforms advocating a peaceful solution to the Palestinian question.
Shame!
