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Israel in the Gaza Strip

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Re:hamas brainwashing kids still

This is what ive been saying about generations of brainwashing...it is this idealolgy that cannot be bargained with in our lifetime...

snake...put the square brackets around the 11 characters after the = for the youtube embed(youtube)pJDNXztFmS0(/youtube)
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=pJDNXztFmS0

when i say have a good hard look at the problem...here it is
 
Tigerboi you goose, try looking up videos of IDF terror to get an unbiased view. Then make an assessment. Dont fall for mainstream media propoganda.
 
dont go getting personal...NUMNUT



tigerboi said:
some of you people are unreal...take your rose coloured glasses off...
1231384754_1058_FT14889_rose_colored_glasses.jpg
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Yes, chops, the fact that Israel cannot lose the war is problematic, but knowing this or acting upon this does not solve much.

At present, my view is that taking sides is the problem - and it will always be the problem - long after you and I have shuffled off our mortal coil. Unless, and it's a very big not if...the war you are fighting is against such pure evil that you are faced with no alternative. It's not my argument - it's the Dietrich Bonhoeffer argument. He took sides, but only acted after immense intellectual internal discussion.

I don't yet believe either side in this war - this very long war - is pure evil, Nahoul the Bee notwithstanding. They can still discuss their differences.
 
Re: Time to take of the rose coloured glasses people

rowie said:
In the 2006 elections, Hamas actually won 74 seats to Fatahs 45. It was accurately considered a landslide victory for Hamas. So please check your facts and make an informed comment with accurate information. It is misleading otherwise. Hamas has alot of support as they spend a large portion of their annual budget (which isnt much) on various social welfare and education programmes within the occupied territories. Further, Hamas are well regarded by Palestinians for its efficiency and perceived lack of corruption compared to Fatah. So please dont paint an inaccurate picture by saying they are a bunch of gangsters, it is totally inaccurate.
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This was raised by Chops also that Hamas won a democratic election which is true but unfortunately they also staged a coup in 2007 killing many during the process. Hamas held territory is in no way currently a democracy nor will it ever be.

There is no moral right or wrong in this conflict regardless of the horrors of children being maimed and killed as either side could stop the conflict immediately.

Its clearly been decided by both sides that this is an acceptable out come if they can achieve victory.

Whats victory?
 
Re: Time to take of the rose coloured glasses people

IFocus said:
This was raised by Chops also that Hamas won a democratic election which is true but unfortunately they also staged a coup in 2007 killing many during the process. Hamas held territory is in no way currently a democracy nor will it ever be.
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Even as an opponent of Hamas, I'm yet to be convinced the actions in Gaza supposedly instigated by them, actually were.
 
Re: Time to take of the rose coloured glasses people

chops_a_must said:
Even as an opponent of Hamas, I'm yet to be convinced the actions in Gaza supposedly instigated by them, actually were.
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Yes who knows its a murky part of the world that many try to paint as black and white.

Really good summary from Stratfor about Hamas and the Arab States relationship, (I get the odd free bait report)

They make the point Hamas is currently an Iran proxy along with Hezbollah and that the Arabs don't like Iran playing in their back yard.

The reaction from the Arab world has been mixed. On the one hand, a look at the so-called Arab street will reveal an angry scene of chanting protesters, burning flags and embassy attacks in protest of Israel’s actions. The principal Arab regimes, however, have either kept quiet or publicly condemned Hamas for the crisis ”” while privately often expressing their support for Israel’s bid to weaken the radical Palestinian group.
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Despite the much-hyped Arab nationalist solidarity often cited in the name of Palestine, most Arab regimes actually have little love for the Palestinians. While these countries like keeping the Palestinian issue alive for domestic consumption and as a tool to pressure Israel and the West when the need arises, in actuality, they tend to view Palestinian refugees ”” and more Palestinian radical groups like Hamas ”” as a threat to the stability of their regimes.
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the Arab states ironically are looking to Israel to ensure that Hamas remains boxed in
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The Palestinians always just looked like cannon fodder to me.......
 
I've always thought this would escalate (BWDIK?). I can't imagine they won't take out Iran's nuke-making factories while the iron's hot. Before or after Obama's shoed in?
 
Re: Time to take of the rose coloured glasses people

IFocus said:
The Palestinians always just looked like cannon fodder to me.......
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Yes, unfortunately as long as the Palestinians are radicalised, the Arab world will not generally support them.

BUT... neighbouring states will also not accept complete borders with Israel, as they know Israel has no intention on restricting its own territories.

So for now, the Palestinians serve as a buffer, as the other neighbours don't want direct conflict with Israel. They know as long as the Palestinians are there, their own territorial borders will not be compromised. But once they are gone, they are in trouble.

So it becomes a matter of subterfuge as to what they do, and who they support, depending on their own safety concerns.

The big play on the West Bank will eventually be the Jordan Valley. It is the only reason Israel refuse to concede there. All hell will break loose if Israel decide to take on the peaceful Jordanians in its sovereignty of the greater area.
 
Re: Time to take of the rose coloured glasses people

IFocus said:
This was raised by Chops also that Hamas won a democratic election which is true but unfortunately they also staged a coup in 2007 killing many during the process. Hamas held territory is in no way currently a democracy nor will it ever be.

There is no moral right or wrong in this conflict regardless of the horrors of children being maimed and killed as either side could stop the conflict immediately.

Its clearly been decided by both sides that this is an acceptable out come if they can achieve victory.

Whats victory?
Click to expand...

Well I guess it is ultimately the fault of the palestinian population for electing the 'wrong' party in the 06 elections. For what followed was a decision by the US and israel to collectively punish gazans for their silly choice and starve them by cutting off aid to NGO's that run a life line to occupied Gaza whilst at the same time fire missiles at them. (Refer to palestinian body count for year 06). And how dare Hamas fight to gain what was rightfully theirs when US backed coup in 2007 was thwarted by Hamas who rightfully gained control of Gaza (having won the elections a year earlier). So what Hamas really should have done after winning the elections is said - 'Well regardless of whether we won, the Americans and Israelis dont want us leading the country so we should just listen to what they say and allow the same repression to continue without putting up a fight'. Thats a joke
 
Sorry I'm a dumbass - still not used to this 2009 thingie... (funny how the news still reads current!)
 
lucas said:
Don't fret guys - Bush has gone to secure peace...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/01/08/ST2008010801585.html?sid=ST2008010801585
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Inspite of the killing and agony, I find this comment amusing :
LucyLou1 wrote:
Translation: (original Bu****e to Hebrew) Screw those filthy A-rabs. We're gonna fabricate a war with Iran, and let them Jews have whatever they want. Jeesus was one of them Jews, and I'm with Jeesus. A-men. Hallay-freakin-looyah.....
 
Is it true that Palestine first came into existence as an act of renaming c/o Hadrian?

http://livingjourney.wordpress.com/2006/03/17/jesus-the-palestinianok-then/

Hadrian wanted all Jewish identity to be obliterated and that is when he renamed "Judea" to "Syria Palaestina" - Palestine - after the Jews' historic enemies, the Philistines, a non-Semitic sea people from the eastern Mediterranean or Aegean area.
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Anyone know differently? (Trust me - I am the Internet)
 
lucas said:
Is it true that Palestine first came into existence as an act of renaming c/o Hadrian?

http://livingjourney.wordpress.com/2006/03/17/jesus-the-palestinianok-then/



Anyone know differently? (Trust me - I am the Internet)
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Not sure what your point is...

Palestine has always "existed". AFAIK it referred to what is now generally the Gaza Strip now, but is now just a generic term for what were many various kingdoms over time.

But yeah, Hadrian did put down hundreds of thousands of Jews after occupation and suppression and their retaliation and murder of many many Romans. The irony is not lost on me.

Anyway, this footage isn't for the faint of heart, i.e. it has footage of a kid dying:

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2009/01/07/ac.nasr.gaza.arab.viewers.cnn
 
Re: Time to take of the rose coloured glasses people

rowie said:
Well I guess it is ultimately the fault of the palestinian population for electing the 'wrong' party in the 06 elections. For what followed was a decision by the US and israel to collectively punish gazans for their silly choice and starve them by cutting off aid to NGO's that run a life line to occupied Gaza whilst at the same time fire missiles at them. (Refer to palestinian body count for year 06). And how dare Hamas fight to gain what was rightfully theirs when US backed coup in 2007 was thwarted by Hamas who rightfully gained control of Gaza (having won the elections a year earlier). So what Hamas really should have done after winning the elections is said - 'Well regardless of whether we won, the Americans and Israelis dont want us leading the country so we should just listen to what they say and allow the same repression to continue without putting up a fight'. Thats a joke
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Rowie not here to chose sides the whole thing is a mess just like Israel likes it.

Hamas although Suni is a proxy of Iran, Iran much like the Arab world are not really big fans of Palestinians other than to use them to poke sticks at Israel.

Israels behavior is well documented

I just cannot see how Hamas has furthered the cause or that they are really acting on the behalf of the people of Gaza.

You say put up a fight all I see is cannon fodder for foreign powers and dead children not to mention another generation full of hate.
 
OK, chops - so you don't know. I'm asking if others do. So why invent "Palestine has always existed" unless you really know?
 

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