Israel in the Gaza Strip

[wayneL]

Forget 1948, Israel existence is promised by their God centuries ago. That is the whole essence of existence of Israel, they are simply taking what is promised to them.

Hence Christian Zionism and the support of the American religious right... all tied up with prophesy concerning the second coming of Christ.

 

[Bushman]

Forget 1948, Israel existence is promised by their God centuries ago. That is the whole essence of existence of Israel, they are simply taking what is promised to them.

I would say that the part of the essence of Israel is the 500 years of vicious pogroms pursued against the 'usurers' in Europe by the (un)Holy Roman Empire. This very Catholic distrust of Jewry then morphed into 'National Socialism' as Germanic society adopted fascism. This had barbarous consequences for the European Jewry.

'Never again' is as much their creed as any biblical scripture.

The unfortunate consequence of this medieval economic power play is the displacement of the Palestinian population. Hence the Palestinians live without hope and their young men act as people living without hope have always done.

There is no solution to this 'battle for survival' amongst the old guard. Maybe a new generation of politicians will negotiate a more lasting peace in the future? I have hope for the part Obama might play in this process.

 

[chops_a_must]

I think Obama may actually be worse, honestly...

 

[slim pickins]

if we are looking at the causes of problems in the middle east all we have to do is read "uncle barry's" posts.

we have a political ideology (palestinain leadership) built on irrational illogical misinformed opinions, similar to uncle barry's, that are leading its poeple to humiliation and defeat.

israel has no bloodlust, it wants peace. israel had killed more people recently because the semi literate palestinian population is incapable of producing the weapons needed to implement its political ideology.

the palestinians are extremely lucky to have israel as an adversary. they are being treated with kid gloves.israel is always fighting with one hand tied behind its back due to human rights constraints.

if the palestinians were up against the germans, russians, chinese or any number of european nations, they would probably have been wiped out back in 1948. thats just how europeans deal with competing land claims.

i bring this up because of uncle barry's distasteful comparison of israel to hitler. a man he calls MR hitler.

read a bit about WWII barry, see what the jews lived through. let me try to explain it. even though you may not be able to comprehend.

the moment the israeli army comes into gaza and west bank. seperates the men and women. kills the women in massive gas chambers, works the men to exhaustion in order to produce goods for export. and slowly starts killing the males off one by one who fail to meet their production quota, then afetr abotu 2 years you find that out of a population of 4 million palestinians there is only about 50,000 left. and those that are left are being hunted down by specialist tracking squads to ensure there is noone left..... then you can start complainign that israel is like hitler.

the truth is.... you mock israel for having superior weapons. well if it were not for those weapons they would suffer a fate worse then WWII at the hands of people like hamas.

peace in israel/palestine!

 

[disarray]

well kosovo was serbian until the muslims moved in, started outbreeding the locals and then started to attack the serbians. sound familiar? it's in the muslim playbook 101. the problem was the serbs didn't play the propaganda game so recently they came off as the bad guys.

the palestinians aren't some precious and beautiful culture under attack, they are an aggressive, tribal, culturally backward people who, after butchering jews for hundreds of years, finally got their asses handed to them.

here's a newsflash - people reap what they sow and the palestinians are reaping a world of pain which is probably well deserved. if they settled down and behaved like civilised people instead of throwing a perpetual tantrum and lobbing endless rockets at israel they could probably negotiate a solution and eventually be reabsorbed into the wider area and population. but they won't. you know why they won't? because of who they are and what they believe. we even have them here in sydney marching down the street waving the flag of hamas (a terrorist organisation!) and abusing people as they pass by. their attitudes and behaviour are laid bare for all to see and the only response i have to this is "fk them".

so all you people defending the palestinians and claiming israel is evil, have a long hard look at who and what you are defending, and maybe point a few fingers at a major root of the whole problem here and in so many other conflict zones throughout the world - ISLAM.

 

[wayneL]

I think Obama may actually be worse, honestly...

I think so too, and said as much during the campaign.

 

[tigerboi]

Reeace in the middle east? not in our lifetime

As i said elsewhere yesterday peace is a dream until the likes of hamas/hezbollah are dealt with for good...no other way

how can you deal with the mindset that sends his son out to blow himself up?what you got here is generations of a 7th century mindset that needs to be brought into the modern 21st century world(wont be done around a table talking about a phony peace)

i hear you all on the israelis hitting back hard,however they are ringed by mortal enimies who cannot understand that they will not defeat israel,they've tried for 50 years & despite outnumbering israel by about 8-10/1?they havent won a stink ever...

the israelis should have taken all the settlements down no doubt about that,but dont forget that they leave gaza,hamas takes over & starts firing rockets...(very dumb,pull the tail of a tiger & bitch & moan when he bites you)

you can have has many road maps,peace talks,etc but until the iranian satellites hamas/hezbollah are wiped out anyone thinking of peace are having a giant tug...tb

just my opinion of course

 

[rowie]

Disarray - Horrid viewpoint. As a muslim i am deeply offended.

 

[Bushman]

I think Obama may actually be worse, honestly...

Worse than Condoleeza Rice, Dubya and their 'velvet gloves'?

 

[disarray]

As a muslim i am deeply offended.

muslims usually are. tissue?

 

[rowie]

muslims usually are. tissue?

No tissue necessary. Just a very narrow racist viewpoint. Obviously you havent a clue - and the audacity to speak of palestinians as a tribal backward culture. Clueless is an understatement!!!

 

[chops_a_must]

so all you people defending the palestinians and claiming israel is evil, have a long hard look at who and what you are defending, and maybe point a few fingers at a major root of the whole problem here and in so many other conflict zones throughout the world - ISLAM.

LOL!!!

Israel's biggest enemy over the years, Fatah, is a secular organisation that represents Christians as well as Muslims.

Swing again.

 

[Whiskers]

Whiskers, with respect, although to us so far away and without the stress of generations of conflict, it may seem 'sensible' and 'reasonable' to dismiss the impact of the 1948 issue, I think it's something ingrained into the collective psyche of the Palestinian people.

You have only to consider the views of our own indigenous people, whom I doubt will ever change their view that they were invaded, to draw a small level of comparison.

Yes I agree with that, because I was not dismissing the significance of 1948, and was going to mention that parallel, but was getting a bit long in the post already.

Because it is so important I have no doubt it should be on the list of issues to deal with, but from a practacility point of view some sort of priority of issues has to be established and my gestimate is that atm there are more immeadiate issues that I'd expect they would want and need to deal with first such as the day to day living issues of food, medical and health care.

Also, because those very emotional issues need to be taken care of as much as possible before the conflict resolution process gets under way, to facilitiate reasonable dialogue, there really needs to be a cooling off period first.

This is the gist of where I'm trying to get at, where Hamas is not doing the Palastine people any favours in terms of helping the process by carrying on with their provocative rantings in the media antaganising Israel and not taking advantage of opportunities to relieve their plight such as Israel letting aid trucks through, but Hamas reportedly continuing fire at them causing Israel to close off the convoy prematurely.

 

[chops_a_must]

Worse than Condoleeza Rice, Dubya and their 'velvet gloves'?

Yes, he is an evangelist, so no doubt he subscribes to the same BS end of the world scenarios.

His chief of staff is perhaps one of the worst zionist hard liners that I've heard of with political power.

And he has also quashed any right of return talks. Which to me, breaches many many international conventions to start with.

As long as the Jews hold untold power in US politics, nothing meaningful will be done.

 

[Bushman]

well kosovo was serbian until the muslims moved in, started outbreeding the locals and then started to attack the serbians. sound familiar? it's in the muslim playbook 101. the problem was the serbs didn't play the propaganda game so recently they came off as the bad guys.

You are joking right? How was the Ottoman Empires behaviour any different to any other European or Asian empire of the time?

The 'Serbs' (i.e. the Serbian Nationalists under Karadzic) milked the propaganda game for all its worth and hit a nerve in the power vacuum left by the collapse of the Eastern Block.

Anyway the point that was being made was that you cannot view conflicts with a root in history from a modern, Australian viewpoint?

Rowie - my apologies for your offence. Not sure why the broad brush of Islam was bought into the debate? Its like drawing a conclusion about Christianity based on the on-going butchery in the 'Catholic' Congo.

 

[rowie]

LOL!!!

Israel's biggest enemy over the years, Fatah, is a secular organisation that represents Christians as well as Muslims.

Swing again.

Chops, I wouldnt bother responding to disarrays ignorant racist threads, you would get more talking to a wall. These people dont realise that this whole conflict is not based on religion but on territory/land acquisition and resources. Disarray simplifies it in his mind by narrowing it down to base it on a conflict between forward and backward civilisations and religion - As I said before, he hasnt a clue. I wouldnt bother trying to school him...

 

[lucas]

Forget whether islam is the problem. What I don't get is how muslims can still belong to the club when such horrible things are done in its name. Same goes for all religions.

If people in this silly thread started blowing up skyscrapers, do you think you would still logon and subscribe? If I were a muslim, I would suspend my enrolment until the religion was purged of fanatics. Which is another way of saying I could never subscribe.

 

[chops_a_must]

If people in this silly thread started blowing up skyscrapers, do you think you would still logon and subscribe?

I don't know.

How about you ask an Israeli, or an English embassy worker about it? :

 

[slim pickins]

well kosovo was serbian until the muslims moved in, started outbreeding the locals and then started to attack the serbians. sound familiar? it's in the muslim playbook 101. the problem was the serbs didn't play the propaganda game so recently they came off as the bad guys.

the palestinians aren't some precious and beautiful culture under attack, they are an aggressive, tribal, culturally backward people who, after butchering jews for hundreds of years, finally got their asses handed to them.

here's a newsflash - people reap what they sow and the palestinians are reaping a world of pain which is probably well deserved. if they settled down and behaved like civilised people instead of throwing a perpetual tantrum and lobbing endless rockets at israel they could probably negotiate a solution and eventually be reabsorbed into the wider area and population. but they won't. you know why they won't? because of who they are and what they believe. we even have them here in sydney marching down the street waving the flag of hamas (a terrorist organisation!) and abusing people as they pass by. their attitudes and behaviour are laid bare for all to see and the only response i have to this is "fk them".

so all you people defending the palestinians and claiming israel is evil, have a long hard look at who and what you are defending, and maybe point a few fingers at a major root of the whole problem here and in so many other conflict zones throughout the world - ISLAM.

i think you will find the serbs attacked and devestated a few christian countries and burned a few catholic churches before picking figths with muslims.

every western country agrees and thats why they had to bomb them back into line and teach them a lesson or two.

and its irrelevant in this discussion anyway.

 

[lucas]

Chops, I think you are making the same or similar point. Why this need to belong to seriously imperfect organisations?