Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

[Tisme]

Here Is a video of some christians burning an old lady alive because she is a "witch".

I doubt he'd get refugee status... why... because he's purportedly christian. If however he was Muslim...well we don't want to be seen to be sectarian do we.

 

[SirRumpole]

Is it the same in every Muslim country or is it flexible? Are the penalties interchangeable for non-physical punishments in modern times?

That's the problem isn't it, we just don't know how the responsible person (whoever that is) will interpret the "Law". If the Law says that there is a penalty of cutting ones hand off for theft then maybe some hard line cleric might decide to apply it.

So a law that flexes and bends according to the "Judge" is not a law we should have.

 

[Wysiwyg]

That is clearly a breach of a persons right to marry whoever they want, and the reason why a princess was beheaded in Saudi Arabia.

Western countries would be a safe place in comparison if one did sin.

 

[Ves]

That's the problem isn't it, we just don't know how the responsible person (whoever that is) will interpret the "Law". If the Law says that there is a penalty of cutting ones hand off for theft then maybe some hard line cleric might decide to apply it.

So a law that flexes and bends according to the "Judge" is not a law we should have.

So are you saying that Muslims have their own judges in Australia or do you think they plan to in the future? Is there any solid indications of this at the moment?

 

[Tisme]

So are you saying that Muslims have their own judges in Australia or do you think they plan to in the future? Is there any solid indications of this at the moment?

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...y/news-story/0cb6ef33bf79abcf3631384f339e85db

 

[SirRumpole]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...y/news-story/0cb6ef33bf79abcf3631384f339e85db

"There is just no way they can get a divorce unless they can get a religious divorce."

Just one way this religion interferes with people's rights.

 

[SirRumpole]

So are you saying that Muslims have their own judges in Australia or do you think they plan to in the future? Is there any solid indications of this at the moment?

There is no "ultimate authority" in Islam, like the Pope for Catholics. It all comes down to the local Mufti's .

 

[Wysiwyg]

The problem with that statement is that you are talking as if Islam is one religion, when its not, its like christianity, its actually made up of many religions.

Okay there are branches and something not widely known. The Quran teachings can be lived to the exact wording or liberally, depending on the country one lives in.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Religious influence exists on food labels. Simply amazing how a religion exercises influence over food distributors. I have eaten vegemite since childhood and 8 years ago they started getting religious about their product. Changing times.

"This is a private company trying to make money," Mr Muehlenberg said. "I don't think they care a rip about offending the tastebuds of Muslims. "Why do we have to keep bending over backwards to please minority groups? There are only 300,000 Muslims in Australia out of 22 million people, which is a very small percentage. Of course, there's a case for making allowances for different cultures, but aren't we getting a bit carried away with political correctness here? It's ridiculous."

 

[Ves]

There is no "ultimate authority" in Islam, like the Pope for Catholics. It all comes down to the local Mufti's .

I'm still confused a bit.

Because the Wikipedia article for Sharia says:

Ottoman rulers achieved additional control over the legal system by promulgating their own legal code (qanun) and turning muftis into state employees.

It sounds like from this point of time (some) Muslim countries begun Westernising their laws, but left some parts of the Sharia in place (mainly to do with personal / domestic disputes).

In the modern era, sharia-based criminal laws were widely replaced by statutes inspired by European models.[3][6] Judicial procedures and legal education in the Muslim world were likewise brought in line with European practice.[3] While the constitutions of most Muslim-majority states contain references to sharia, its classical rules were largely retained only in personal status (family) laws

It appears that there are two pushes in Muslim communities. One is tending towards Westernisation of law (probably like the process Christian societies undertook in the modern era) and the other is a push back by Fundamentalists towards the Sharia (again, like the Fundamentalist Christians did as well).

Can you clear this up for me?

 

[Ves]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...y/news-story/0cb6ef33bf79abcf3631384f339e85db

If nothing else it's symbolic that they require an Imam/priest to annul the marriage. We both know it's an empty gesture in itself that literally means nothing from a practical or legal perspective.

How can you secretly have a divorce recorded in the Australian government systems?

If they require a ceremony to go with the official documentation then that's their issue.

 

[SirRumpole]

Can you clear this up for me?

Not really, I'm not a Muslim.

But when a law is open to hard line interpretation then it's a law that reduces the rights of some people to below that of non Muslims living in the same society.

eg according to Sharia law a man can divorce a wife simply by telling her that they are no longer married, whereas a woman needs her husbands permission to divorce. Now maybe one Imam will interpret that strictly, another may interpret it more liberally, who knows, but if it's not consistent then it's not a good law.

 

[Value Collector]

Religious influence exists on food labels. Simply amazing how a religion exercises influence over food distributors. I have eaten vegemite since childhood and 8 years ago they started getting religious about their product. Changing times.

It's called marketing, and it is a very cheap form of marketing.

Have you ever complained about those "Happy little Vegemite ads", that sort of advertising costs lots more than a Halal certification, or what about a cricket sponsorship? thats heaps expensive.

 

[Ves]

Not really, I'm not a Muslim.

But when a law is open to hard line interpretation then it's a law that reduces the rights of some people to below that of non Muslims living in the same society.

eg according to Sharia law a man can divorce a wife simply by telling her that they are no longer married, whereas a woman needs her husbands permission to divorce. Now maybe one Imam will interpret that strictly, another may interpret it more liberally, who knows, but if it's not consistent then it's not a good law.

Yeah, but again, it looks like the strict enforcement of Sharia is often lessened in Muslim countries that have undergone the process of modernising their laws to a more State based approach.

It seems your example only applies to those who are Fundamentalist Islams who hark back to the traditional ways.

agreed?

 

[Value Collector]

Okay there are branches and something not widely known. The Quran teachings can be lived to the exact wording or liberally, depending on the country one lives in.

exactly like christianity.

 

[Wysiwyg]

It's called marketing, and it is a very cheap form of marketing.

Have you ever complained about those "Happy little Vegemite ads", that sort of advertising costs lots more than a Halal certification, or what about a cricket sponsorship? thats heaps expensive.

As you may have observed I am not a religious person and believe religion will not be a part of non religious peoples lives. I used to have Jehovah Witnesses knock on the door for a persuasion session but haven't seen them biking around for many years now. There will be ebbs and flows but in the distant future people will come to realise there is no entity looking over them. There is life, death and thinking in between. 'With our thoughts we make the world'. Gautama Buddha.
.

 

[SirRumpole]

It seems your example only applies to those who are Fundamentalist Islams who hark back to the traditional ways.

agreed?

At the moment Muslims are well and truly outnumbered in Australia, so naturally they moderate their views so they are not perceived to be hard line. If their numbers increase beyond a critical mass they may indeed hark back to the old ways as they have in other countries eg Charlie Hebdo.

That's why a lot of people are arguing against further Muslim immigration, and we must also realise that like other religious groups they have as many children as they can, breeding little warriors for the cause.

 

[Wysiwyg]

exactly like christianity.

Are christians practicing barbarous behaviour in the world today?

 

[Ves]

At the moment Muslims are well and truly outnumbered in Australia, so naturally they moderate their views so they are not perceived to be hard line. If their numbers increase beyond a critical mass they may indeed hark back to the old ways as they have in other countries eg Charlie Hebdo.

That's why a lot of people are arguing against further Muslim immigration, and we must also realise that like other religious groups they have as many children as they can, breeding little warriors for the cause.

So basically:

Muslims come.
More Muslims come.
Out number everyone else.
A minority preaches extremist Sharia enforcement and the rest just accept it.
They overthrow the Australian government and change the law.

Any changes?

 

[Wysiwyg]

Interesting how the London 'sharia patrols' got shut down and people imprisoned yet Germany last year decreed 'sharia patrols' legal.