Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

[Tisme]

Please, not the old straw man argument trick.

I dunno, drunks deserve to be controlled by enclaved sharia law

 

[SirRumpole]

How is it a straw man, People are saying having muslims in the country increases risk to the rest of the population.

I am pointing out drink driving and alcohol violence is a far bigger killer, given that muslims don't drink, we would actually be reducing the risk to the rest of the population by avoiding people from drinking cultures.

Can you explain the flaw in my logic?

Drinkers don't necessarily pledge allegiance to a violent religion.

 

[luutzu]

Drinkers don't necessarily pledge allegiance to a violent religion.

Name one religion that has never been use to wage war.

Or name one race, or group of people, who has never ever fought a war.

If we use the same set of criteria to ban Muslims from Australia - violent religion, oppressive cultural practices, have a bunch of nutjobs, have a history of empire building... Use those same criteria to then ban or expel all who came from that group, no one would be left in Australia except for the Aborigines. And that's only because going back to where they came from means going here.

 

[Value Collector]

Drinkers don't necessarily pledge allegiance to a violent religion.

Neither do all muslims, Most versions of islam are non violent.



But So what, drinkers indulge in risky behaviour that is known to kill thousands of Australians, or is it just the deaths caused by muslims that both you? e.g., innocents dying at the hand of a drunk are not as worrying to you.

 

[luutzu]

What fault may that be?......I was drawing to attention the fact that we have Muslims in the ADF and the repercussions that it could have on our equipment....Who can tell if they are not just a plant and why has the Mufties , the higher order of Islam, allowed the recruitment of Muslims into the ADF.?...I thought tar would be against their ideology.

Serious?

All Catholics listen and follow what the Pope says?

All Christians act and think alike? In one unified, harmonious group that has never ever fought each other?

When you speak, does all your kids follow?

People are individuals. Even if they all look the same.

 

[SirRumpole]

Neither do all muslims, Most versions of islam are non violent.



But So what, drinkers indulge in risky behaviour that is known to kill thousands of Australians, or is it just the deaths caused by muslims that both you? e.g., innocents dying at the hand of a drunk are not as worrying to you.

There is a difference between deliberately causing death or injury and irresponsibly causing death or injury.

Drunks don't have Imams telling them to go out and kill infidels or training courses telling them how to do it.

 

[Tisme]

Serious?

All Catholics listen and follow what the Pope says?

All Christians act and think alike? In one unified, harmonious group that has never ever fought each other?

When you speak, does all your kids follow?

People are individuals. Even if they all look the same.

You just answered your quandary about why we don't like the hassle of controlling religious cults taking over our 200 years of trying to leave that nonsense behind in the old world countries of dragons, unicorns, fairies, etc and "nefarious invisible gods" who gave up and left around the 7th century when the last fella spoken too decided to set up his own empire for world domination on the back of it.

 

[noco]

Serious?

All Catholics listen and follow what the Pope says?

All Christians act and think alike? In one unified, harmonious group that has never ever fought each other?

When you speak, does all your kids follow?

People are individuals. Even if they all look the same.

I suggest you leave my family out of this discussion.

 

[luutzu]

There is a difference between deliberately causing death or injury and irresponsibly causing death or injury.

Drunks don't have Imams telling them to go out and kill infidels or training courses telling them how to do it.

No difference to the victims.

Serious man, where do you get these ideas that Islam preaches hate and violence and terrorism.

Maybe Muslims goes to Mosques and pray for the same reasons followers of other religion does it for.

 

[luutzu]

I suggest you leave my family out of this discussion.

I wasn't pointing to your family in that sense noco.

Was saying that even in our own family, each one of us, it is hard for one family to even be all united and follow the same thing.

 

[luutzu]

You just answered your quandary about why we don't like the hassle of controlling religious cults taking over our 200 years of trying to leave that nonsense behind in the old world countries of dragons, unicorns, fairies, etc and "nefarious invisible gods" who gave up and left around the 7th century when the last fella spoken too decided to set up his own empire for world domination on the back of it.

You're mixing the convicts and First Fleeters with the Yank's Pilgrims aren't you?

Australia can't make the same claim of escaping religious persecution or freedom from it. We colony of Britain got here to bring them good English value to the Natives because the American Colonies rebelled and kicked us out.

 

[noco]

No difference to the victims.

Serious man, where do you get these ideas that Islam preaches hate and violence and terrorism.

Maybe Muslims goes to Mosques and pray for the same reasons followers of other religion does it for.

Luu, are you so blind that others cannot see....Have you observed a dozen or more passages in the Koran where it clearly states, "I you are an infidel or a Christian you must be eliminated by cutting off their heads of other methods".
Muslims brainwash the children in Islamic schools 5 times a day...What sort of kids will they be when they become teens.
Does praying actually help?......It does nothing no matter what religion you may follow.

 

[noco]

I wasn't pointing to your family in that sense noco.

Was saying that even in our own family, each one of us, it is hard for one family to even be all united and follow the same thing.

For your information, I have a very close knit family 3 kids.....5 grand kids and 5 great grand kids...None of us are religious but we all live a very happy life and abide by the laws of the country....The parents up bringing of their children has every thing to do with their outcome in life...We don't need religion....We don't need to get down on our knees and pray 5 times a day or go to church every Sunday to make us look good...Religion is a racket and used to get people too part with their money.....Many people use religion as a shadow to cover their sins......He or she goes to church so they must be good people....What are they praying for?......Praying for something that is not going to happen.
Well, I have got news for you Luu, I gave up religion when I was some 18 years old because I found I found myself mixing with so many hypocrites.

 

[luutzu]

Luu, are you so blind that others cannot see....Have you observed a dozen or more passages in the Koran where it clearly states, "I you are an infidel or a Christian you must be eliminated by cutting off their heads of other methods".
Muslims brainwash the children in Islamic schools 5 times a day...What sort of kids will they be when they become teens.
Does praying actually help?......It does nothing no matter what religion you may follow.

Jesus Christ is considered a Prophet in Islam noco. Muhammad is also a Prophet, the last one God/Allah will send down to give his Creation another chance before He calls it quit.

Of course praying doesn't bring results in them being answered. But to religious people, to those who have faith, praying might help in relieving them of their worries.. .it's like talking to a psychologist or psychiatrist, but for free.

I don't know man, people can do whatever they want as long as it does not harm others and the community. That's the kind of value and freedom we're all trying to protect right?

No people can be free when their country or their people deliberately discriminate against another group of people or their cultural/religious beliefs. You cannot run an empire that way. Even the Mongols knew that.

 

[PZ99]

For your information, I have a very close knit family 3 kids.....5 grand kids and 5 great grand kids...None of us are religious but we all live a very happy life and abide by the laws of the country....The parents up bringing of their children has every thing to do with their outcome in life...We don't need religion....We don't need to get down on our knees and pray 5 times a day or go to church every Sunday to make us look good...Religion is a racket and used to get people too part with their money.....Many people use religion as a shadow to cover their sins......He or she goes to church so they must be good people....What are they praying for?......Praying for something that is not going to happen.
Well, I have got news for you Luu, I gave up religion when I was some 18 years old because I found I found myself mixing with so many hypocrites.

noco, I'm with you on that. Religion was forcibly shoved down our throats at school but for any independent free thinker like yourself or myself it didn't take long for the rank hypocrisy to surface. While I respect people who might find some comfort in religion it means nothing to me. I will die, disappear and that's the end of it. I don't believe in afterlife recyclers.

 

[luutzu]

For your information, I have a very close knit family 3 kids.....5 grand kids and 5 great grand kids...None of us are religious but we all live a very happy life and abide by the laws of the country....The parents up bringing of their children has every thing to do with their outcome in life...We don't need religion....We don't need to get down on our knees and pray 5 times a day or go to church every Sunday to make us look good...Religion is a racket and used to get people too part with their money.....Many people use religion as a shadow to cover their sins......He or she goes to church so they must be good people....What are they praying for?......Praying for something that is not going to happen.
Well, I have got news for you Luu, I gave up religion when I was some 18 years old because I found I found myself mixing with so many hypocrites.

Great to hear that noco.

I've personally known a few "religious" people who are just the worst kind of human being I've ever known. So yes, people can use it as a fascade to show their purity and whatever.

I'm not a religious person either. But the world can't be run the way we like it. There are laws and rights and stuff. So as long as they don't bother me and you, don't infringe on our rights, kneel to whoever makes them happy I'd say.

Man I hope I could manage to stay long enough to see great grandkids and still carry on a conversation at your age noco.

 

[noco]

Jesus Christ is considered a Prophet in Islam noco. Muhammad is also a Prophet, the last one God/Allah will send down to give his Creation another chance before He calls it quit.

Of course praying doesn't bring results in them being answered. But to religious people, to those who have faith, praying might help in relieving them of their worries.. .it's like talking to a psychologist or psychiatrist, but for free.

I don't know man, people can do whatever they want as long as it does not harm others and the community. That's the kind of value and freedom we're all trying to protect right?

No people can be free when their country or their people deliberately discriminate against another group of people or their cultural/religious beliefs. You cannot run an empire that way. Even the Mongols knew that.

Where did you derive "Jesus Christ is considered a Prophet in Islam noco. Muhammad is also a Prophet, the last one God/Allah will send down to give his Creation another chance before He calls it quit".

Religion has caused more problems around the world than anything else.
Thank "God"(pun accepted) I am agnostic because I am yet to be convinced their is a God....Millions of people only believe in God because they have been told by some religious crank that there is a God....Where does he hang out.....Has any one proved as yet that God exists....The answer is NO.....Please don't come back to me and say look around you ...the trees the air we breath and how did human being come to be on this planet...I have heard it all before......Nobody knows and I doubt if they will ever find out......So it is what some one said 2000 years ago and people still believe it.

 

[SirRumpole]

Serious man, where do you get these ideas that Islam preaches hate and violence and terrorism.

From the Islamic terror attacks around the world.

 

[luutzu]

From the Islamic terror attacks around the world.

A bit selective there isn't it?

Don't get me wrong, terrorism is horrific and cannot be justified.

But when we want to be objective and neutral... aren't drone attacks and invasions also terrifying? I know I'd be terrified if I were to live in the ME and not know whether the street I'm walking down have some terrorist someone somewhere decided to take out.

Saw a clip of Bill Maher, the so-called "progressive" TV talking head/comedian. The dude criticises Trump for saying that the US aren't so innocent. How dare the president of the US says that what we do is anything but good and noble!

Should we, or anyone in the world, take the actions of "our" warmongers and other psychopaths does and paint us all as the one and the same?

Good for the goose, not good for the gander?

We, the plebs, are generally normal, easy-going people who just want a decent job, roof over our head, able to put food on the table, grow old and die peacefully. That and be left alone.

This is true throughout the ages, across all cultures and empires.

But others of greater ambition and so-call destiny, and psychotic leaning... they can't have that. They get bored living in luxuries and castles, read too much grand histories of Alexander, Caesar and Napoleon... and so itches for war of conquest. Why not, other people's kids will pay the price while they themselves get the glory and booties.

And you cannot mobilise the people for war if they do not hate or feel threaten.

It's pretty simple.

 

[SirRumpole]

A bit selective there isn't it?

Don't get me wrong, terrorism is horrific and cannot be justified.

But when we want to be objective and neutral... aren't drone attacks and invasions also terrifying? I know I'd be terrified if I were to live in the ME and not know whether the street I'm walking down have some terrorist someone somewhere decided to take out.

I think we have been through this before. The West is not taking on Islam in the ME, we are helping Muslim countries fight a threat to law and order in that area.

You may say we should just pull out and leave them to it. Maybe sell them arms like we did to Saddam. That's pretty risky if ISIL wins and has control over all those arms.

In the end we need a ME that we can deal with in a quasi civilised manner, not a bunch of psychos.