Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

[Value Collector]

Yes you may be right but nevertheless 93% of all unemployed migrants is still a burden on the tax payer.

It's not 93% of migrants, it's 93% of refugees in their first 12months in the country.

 

[Value Collector]

John Oliver delivers the facts about the refugee crisis.

 

[Value Collector]

This is the problem Luu, the Islamic terrorist work on fear and intimidation.....

Yep, and it works, you and the other Pauline Hanson types are scared and intimidated.

It's funny, the American far right call us guys with some socially left views snowflakes, yet they are the ones in hysterical fear, who feel they need to carry hand guns to go and get their groceries.

 

[noco]

Yep, and it works, you and the other Pauline Hanson types are scared and intimidated.

It's funny, the American far right call us guys with some socially left views snowflakes, yet they are the ones in hysterical fear, who feel they need to carry hand guns to go and get their groceries.

VC, I hope it does not happen to you or one of your innocent family walking down the street and then mowed down by some crazy Islamic terrorist.

I am so pleased I don't live in any of the major cites where this is more likely to happen.

 

[Value Collector]

VC, I hope it does not happen to you or one of your innocent family walking down the street and then mowed down by some crazy Islamic terrorist.

I am so pleased I don't live in any of the major cites where this is more likely to happen.

Lol, there you go again, trying to help out the terrorists by spreading fear, you are basically helping them out, Isis would love to know that you fear them.

Why the hell would I be scared of something that has such a low probability, I will just live my life carefree and enjoy my self, I would never let fear of terrorism affect me.

If I were to worry about anything cutting my life short it would be heart attack or cancer, heart attack kills an Australian every 12mins, but even that won't stop me enjoying a bowl of garlic fries with a couple of beers.

You have to enjoy life, why be scared of everything, maybe you need to stop watching the news, it's bad for you I think.

 

[noco]

Lol, there you go again, trying to help out the terrorists by spreading fear, you are basically helping them out, Isis would love to know that you fear them.

Why the hell would I be scared of something that has such a low probability, I will just live my life carefree and enjoy my self, I would never let fear of terrorism affect me.

If I were to worry about anything cutting my life short it would be heart attack or cancer, heart attack kills an Australian every 12mins, but even that won't stop me enjoying a bowl of garlic fries with a couple of beers.

You have to enjoy life, why be scared of everything, maybe you need to stop watching the news, it's bad for you I think.

VC, you may be an exception who is very brave or naive but there are thousands of people who do fear for their lives not knowing if they will be the next to suffer at the hands of some Islamic terrorist.

There seems to be a small group on this Forum who jump to protect and condone the Islamic activities in this country of ours upon which in my younger days was not known except for some minor skirmish between the Catholics and the Protestants, but there was no killing.

May I suggest to those who do condone Islam, would you be prepared to take into your house just one refugee to feed, clothe and accommodate...Just one?

 

[luutzu]

VC, you may be an exception who is very brave or naive but there are thousands of people who do fear for their lives not knowing if they will be the next to suffer at the hands of some Islamic terrorist.

There seems to be a small group on this Forum who jump to protect and condone the Islamic activities in this country of ours upon which in my younger days was not known except for some minor skirmish between the Catholics and the Protestants, but there was no killing.

May I suggest to those who do condone Islam, would you be prepared to take into your house just one refugee to feed, clothe and accommodate...Just one?

No one condone terrorism noco. Come on, that's insane. And definitely not VC. I mean the dude literally went to war to stop that kind of stuff.

I'm repeating myself here.. .that I've heard a few investigative journalist and historians saying that before deciding to liberate Iraq... in the planning sessions, Bush, Cheney and co.; Blair and his crew; I'm assuming Howard and his merry men too... that each of the country's intelligence agencies advised them that if Saddam is remove, there will be a shiet storm in the ME. And that there will be higher risk of blowback and terrorist attack on the homeland.

Those guys know of the risks, thought it's "worth" whatever gains there are to be had.. and here we are, 14 years later the entire region is in flame and we have Trump starting to take over from Saudi Arabia in Yemen; rattling a few sabres against Iran - possibly adding it to the 8 wars they're simultaneously waging.

Who in their right mind does that?

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Back to being alarm or alert at home... know how many Australians die from suicide each year? Die from road or work accidents? Poor heathcare? Drug and alcohol abuses?

Fund programmes to help counsel, or educate or fund jobs programmes... that'll not only save those lives, it'll go a long way in creating a better society to live in.

 

[SirRumpole]

No one condone terrorism noco. Come on, that's insane. And definitely not VC. I mean the dude literally went to war to stop that kind of stuff.

We have seen that large concentrations of Muslims cause trouble wherever they are.

We can't have our foreign policy dictated by terrorists, that's just stupid.

ISIS and their kind are criminals no matter how honorable you think their cause is. They need to be wiped out not pandered to.

 

[luutzu]

We have seen that large concentrations of Muslims cause trouble wherever they are.

We can't have our foreign policy dictated by terrorists, that's just stupid.

ISIS and their kind are criminals no matter how honorable you think their cause is. They need to be wiped out not pandered to.

Thing is, you can't "wiped out" terrorists. Haven't we been trying that since... ever?

I'm not suggesting we "pander" or let anyone dictate our policies. Just that we might want to be smart about the kind of policies to follow, rather than just do whatever stupid nonsense because we can.

So if we're alright with going into any country uninvited, setting up military bases and shoot anything we don't like... then we should grow up a bit and think that ey, maybe there are people who doesn't like these kind of stuff happening on their soil.

Then we can shrug and say, yea that's too bad they don't like it. Suck it up. Might makes right and, as the ancient Greek Historian observed, the strong do as they please while the weak suffer as they must.

That's a realist view of history and current event. It's preferable to these PC nonsense about something being wrong with Islam; look how horrible and backward and vile Islam and Muslims are. that they're all terrorists, always causing trouble and murdering innocent people because they somehow don't see "US" going into their country to do good for them.

Isn't it the responsibility of responsible citizens in a democracy to understand the facts, see the reality... then once we're aware of it, decide. Then if we think that what we do is "worth" all the sacrifices our people have to take on, alright, sacrifice it is then.

Just it's a bit much to begrudge the sacrifices we have to make as consequences of our action.

This is not to excuse violence or to condone terrorism in any shape or form. It is to say that when we wage wars on people, don't expect them to play nice. There's only one Gandhi and one Dr Martin Luther King Jr.

 

[noco]

Where is the evidence that that incident was terrorism related ?

This maniac is a Greek Islamic Kurd.

Daniel Andrews has gone out of way to cover it up as a terrorist act as it is a refection on his lack of action.

This was a terrorist screaming out Allah Akbar as he did his doe nuts out side Flinders Street Station..

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/01/...-into-pedestrians-cops-say-not-terror-related

 

[noco]

Thing is, you can't "wiped out" terrorists. Haven't we been trying that since... ever?

I'm not suggesting we "pander" or let anyone dictate our policies. Just that we might want to be smart about the kind of policies to follow, rather than just do whatever stupid nonsense because we can.

So if we're alright with going into any country uninvited, setting up military bases and shoot anything we don't like... then we should grow up a bit and think that ey, maybe there are people who doesn't like these kind of stuff happening on their soil.

Then we can shrug and say, yea that's too bad they don't like it. Suck it up. Might makes right and, as the ancient Greek Historian observed, the strong do as they please while the weak suffer as they must.

That's a realist view of history and current event. It's preferable to these PC nonsense about something being wrong with Islam; look how horrible and backward and vile Islam and Muslims are. that they're all terrorists, always causing trouble and murdering innocent people because they somehow don't see "US" going into their country to do good for them.

Isn't it the responsibility of responsible citizens in a democracy to understand the facts, see the reality... then once we're aware of it, decide. Then if we think that what we do is "worth" all the sacrifices our people have to take on, alright, sacrifice it is then.

Just it's a bit much to begrudge the sacrifices we have to make as consequences of our action.

This is not to excuse violence or to condone terrorism in any shape or form. It is to say that when we wage wars on people, don't expect them to play nice. There's only one Gandhi and one Dr Martin Luther King Jr.

The Muslims are the perpetrators of violent acts against the people of the Western world and you say be nice to them.

What should we do, just let them run rampant over us?

It is a case of kill or be killed...Take your pick.

 

[luutzu]

The Muslims are the perpetrators of violent acts against the people of the Western world and you say be nice to them.

What should we do, just let them run rampant over us?

It is a case of kill or be killed...Take your pick.

It's not black and white. And not every Muslim are ISIS. Not every rebel group in all those countries are ISIS either... we know this because the CIA and the chiefs in Washington are arming certain groups among them, right?

Wars are pretty easy to understand: both sides think they're doing good, ultimately. Both think God's on their side.

Anyway, to quote the Yellow Emperor when he was asked that doesn't he know that Putin is a killer... to which he says... Are we so innocent? We don't do nasty stuff?

An eye for an eye and the world will go blind, says Gandhi.

Let's have a 100 year wars on the sand monkeys and jack that trillion dollar spending to a hundred or two, says the military industrial complex.

 

[noco]

It's not black and white. And not every Muslim are ISIS. Not every rebel group in all those countries are ISIS either... we know this because the CIA and the chiefs in Washington are arming certain groups among them, right?

Wars are pretty easy to understand: both sides think they're doing good, ultimately. Both think God's on their side.

Anyway, to quote the Yellow Emperor when he was asked that doesn't he know that Putin is a killer... to which he says... Are we so innocent? We don't do nasty stuff?

An eye for an eye and the world will go blind, says Gandhi.

Let's have a 100 year wars on the sand monkeys and jack that trillion dollar spending to a hundred or two, says the military industrial complex.

From the horses mouth......If you do not believe in the Koran or Sharia law then you are not a Muslim.

 

[Value Collector]

there are thousands of people who do fear for their lives not knowing if they will be the next to suffer at the hands of some Islamic terrorist.

Yes, and this called "irrational fear", I would like to see the rights of the everyday moderate Muslim protected from the people who's irrational fear makes them want to attack or deny rights to innocent Muslims trying to go about everyday life.

Here's the thing, you seem to think every Muslim is a terrorist, that's simply not true, and you think that defending the rights of everyday Muslims is some how protecting Isis, this is also not true.

More Muslims are being killed by Isis than any other group, moderates have just as much to fear as anyone else.

 

[luutzu]

From the horses mouth......If you do not believe in the Koran or Sharia law then you are not a Muslim.

Noco, if NSW want to go to war with Queensland, I bet you we can just spend two minutes and find a few nutjob up North to justify why we the entire state ought to be taken out.

Maybe it's possible that we're misinformed, are given false choices of we either kill them or they kill us. Maybe we can just all get along and nobody needs to die over anything.

Maybe we Australians ought to learn a few lessons from the past. That going along with our Great Protector tend to harm (some) of our own soldiers, waste some of our own treasures... and make us too reliant on others for our national security.

That's a small price to pay when that Great Protector is all big and powerful. But as Mother England have shown, when she over extends her empire and a couple of serious up and coming industrial power thought to challenge her... you know, not your average colonial rebels and terrorists... when that happen, our Great Protector might retreat and leave us hanging. What then?

Trust me, the world has not had two equivalent military power facing off each other since WW2. Maybe the "Cuban" Missile Crisis. And in those 13 days, the world would be been blown to bits if the Soviets didn't flinch, or if one Soviet officer didn't go against launching a nuke from his submarine.

As bad as the wars in the ME is, it's a side show if the US and its allies (incl us Aussies) go to war with China or Russia. Either side might not be smart enough to flinch this time.

 

[Value Collector]

From the horses mouth......If you do not believe in the Koran or Sharia law then you are not a Muslim.

You can find crazy Christian, Jewish, Hindu, buddist etc etc groups, to try and say that those little crazy group represent the views of all is just silly.

I can upload a video of a Christian preacher calling for gays to be killed, is this the view of all Christians? No.

Do you understand that there are over 10,000 types of Christian? The same is true for Muslims, all the groups believe different stuff.

 

[SirRumpole]

More Muslims are being killed by Isis than any other group, moderates have just as much to fear as anyone else.

True, but you can't deny that there are unknown number of jihadists in this country who will go and fight in Syria for ISIS and then try to come back here and continue the jihad in Australia.

What should we do about them ?

Stripping their citizenship and not letting them back into the country seems reasonable to me.

And what of the ones who don't try to leave but plot jihad here ? Two have been arrested recently as have a number of others. Imo they should be held indefinitely as religious indoctrination is a mental illness and they should have to prove that they have been cured before they get out of gaol.

 

[Value Collector]

True, but you can't deny that there are unknown number of jihadists in this country who will go and fight in Syria for ISIS and then try to come back here and continue the jihad in Australia.

What should we do about them ?

Stripping their citizenship and not letting them back into the country seems reasonable to me.

And what of the ones who don't try to leave but plot jihad here ? Two have been arrested recently as have a number of others. Imo they should be held indefinitely as religious indoctrination is a mental illness and they should have to prove that they have been cured before they get out of gaol.

I can agree there is an unknown number.

And we should continue the great police and intelligence work we have been doing that has caught some of them in the past, we should charge them for their crimes and even boot them if they aren't citizens,

But you just have to remember, these "unknown numbers" are very likely tiny numbers, and the threat is very small, but if we want to be hard asses, and treat all moderate muslims like crap as if they are terrorists, we are likely to grow this unknown number significantly.

You know I think religions are silly, and believe moving to a more secular society is the way to go, but I don't believe taking rights away from one religious group helps at all, I fact it makes it worse.

 

[Value Collector]

Here is a Christian pastor preaching violence and hate, should we believe these views represent all Christians?

 

[SirRumpole]

You know I think religions are silly, and believe moving to a more secular society is the way to go, but I don't believe taking rights away from one religious group helps at all, I fact it makes it worse.

So what rights are you saying are being taken away ?

It may come down to banning the burka, but I think that can be justified in terms of crime prevention.

If we put a moratorium on immigration from Muslim countries, I think that would be generally supported in the community, as we have a right to let into the country whoever we want and refuse access to those we don't.

Other than that, Muslims still have the right to freedom of worship, freedom of speech etc the same as everyone else so I can't see where rights are being taken away from them.