Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

[CanOz]

99.993% of all Muslims are not Jihadists. More Muslims are killed each year by 'terrorist' organisations than other people....keep things in perspective.

 

[luutzu]

it is messed up when officials (and some people even here) deny the obvious just because it does not fit their belief irreespective of facts;
they tried the same talk in Nice, he killed 30% of muslims so ..(as if it was a proof of anything among these ravid lunatics), was deranged, under mental health treatment, then you learn he had accomplices, had prepared this for months.

Not all murders by Muslims are terrorism sure, but Wurburg, Munich and Nice (people have stopped pretending that last one was just an accident...) are deeply linked to a jihadist religious view.

By denying this, and with people facing facts, not sitting in an armchair in Australia but living it in Europe, that position and denial actually inflames the debate and Europe will end up in a black /white (I do not mean race here) civil war; with many innocents paying [moderate muslims included].
But too many people profit/have profited for years from that situation : both left and right wings for this to stop;

Just another murder Islam has nothing to do with it:
http://www.bild.de/regional/stuttga...-mit-reutlingen-reutlingen-46972048.bild.html

They have an ironic term in France now:
Pasdamalgam-> from "Pas d'amalgame" ->no amalgam/link;
people are so sick of the brainwashing that there is no trust whatsoever left with either media or government releases.

No body is denying that there are terrorists; no one is denying that there are psychotic people either.

But that is very different from "denying" that Islam and Muslims are either terrorist or psychotic murderers because of their religion and culture.

Just a couple days ago, a US airstrike kill an estimated 147 people in Syria. It was estimated that at least 80 of those killed were civilians.

What should we classify the killing of those civilians on? An accident? Pilot error? Terrorism? War?

You know what denial is?

It's when our government thought to send troops and fighter jets over to other people's land; overthrow its gov't; kill anything that moves... then we somehow thought that that's fine. That those being invaded ought to just run and hide and kiss our feet then hand over their land, their resources.

What denial is, is the fact that our allies have drones flying over other people's skies and fire missiles at any target we feel looks funny. Then we, the civilised West, shrugged and say that that's not terrorism, that's just keeping the peace.

What denial is is when the enemies we're fighting against fight back and we think that that's just weird, why are they fighting back? What did we do? We did nothing and they kill our innocent people - it must be their religion. Something is wrong with Islam and Muslims for not liking foreigners killing their people and taking their land.


We're upset that innocent people are kill and maim - and we should. But then to advocate ideas that will definitely main and kill other innocent people. Are we suppose to feel better because those innocents we kill are Muslims instead of White and Christian?

Yes, stop the boats; stop Muslim immigration; stop (Islamic) refugees... But keep up the tough work and go occupy the ME and drop more bombs like we have not drop any before.

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It may be lost on you that some of the pillars that held up our country and make it strong are being knock down and chipped at. And those doing the major demolition work are not necessarily Muslims or Islamic terrorist.

Who pays for all the corporate bailouts? Who pays for corporate welfare? Who benefits? The same people?

Who pays taxes but have to tighten their belts because their money can no longer afford healthcare or affordable education for their kids?

Who pays for those jet fuel? Those bullets and missiles? And who makes money from it? Muslims?

Why is a Frenchman or an Asian can call Australia home? Because there are no French criminals? No Asian drug dealers? Maybe because Australian law judge a person on what they do, not who they look like.

 

[SirRumpole]

We're upset that innocent people are kill and maim - and we should. But then to advocate ideas that will definitely main and kill other innocent people. Are we suppose to feel better because those innocents we kill are Muslims instead of White and Christian?

A lot of innocent people got killed in WW2, in London, Dresden and Hiroshima among others.

If there is a 'war' on terrorism, then innocent people on both sides will die, it's an unfortunate fact.

Do the ends justify the means ? Obviously our leaders think so otherwise they would not be doing drone attacks.

 

[bellenuit]

99.993% of all Muslims are not Jihadists. More Muslims are killed each year by 'terrorist' organisations than other people....keep things in perspective.

That figure is a fabrication in that it only accounts for those who are known active Jihadists (identified groups such as ISIS and Boko Harem). It would not have included any of the so-called lone wolf terrorists who recently attacked civilians in European cities as none were regarded as active Jihadists (hence they were still at large and at best under surveillance).

The more important figure is the % of muslims who support violent Jihad in some form or other as supporters are also likely to become active depending on circumstance. That figure is in the 20%+ range.

If you look at broader issues that don't come under the banner of violent Jihad, but what we in the West would regard as extreme and intolerable; imposing the death sentence on apostates and homosexuals under Sharia law; support among muslims is 50% plus and up to 90% plus in some countries. Why is a homosexual beheaded under Saudi Sharia law any less "Jihadic" then the same person thrown off a high building in Syria by ISIS.

Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/

Thats is the perspective we should have when we discuss the topic Islam is Inherently Evil. The fact that so many people are conditioned to accept the denial of basic freedoms to their fellow citizens purely because they were raised muslim and taught that is OK. Accepting state sponsored murder makes them extremists even though many of them would see themselves as just peaceful muslims obeying the will of Allah.

 

[luutzu]

That figure is a fabrication in that it only accounts for those who are known active Jihadists (identified groups such as ISIS and Boko Harem). It would not have included any of the so-called lone wolf terrorists who recently attacked civilians in European cities as none were regarded as active Jihadists (hence they were still at large and at best under surveillance).

The more important figure is the % of muslims who support violent Jihad in some form or other as supporters are also likely to become active depending on circumstance. That figure is in the 20%+ range.

If you look at broader issues that don't come under the banner of violent Jihad, but what we in the West would regard as extreme and intolerable; imposing the death sentence on apostates and homosexuals under Sharia law; support among muslims is 50% plus and up to 90% plus in some countries. Why is a homosexual beheaded under Saudi Sharia law any less "Jihadic" then the same person thrown off a high building in Syria by ISIS.

Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/

Thats is the perspective we should have when we discuss the topic Islam is Inherently Evil. The fact that so many people are conditioned to accept the denial of basic freedoms to their fellow citizens purely because they were raised muslim and taught that is OK. Accepting state sponsored murder makes them extremists even though many of them would see themselves as just peaceful muslims obeying the will of Allah.

How does Christianity view homosexual? Fair dinkum? Gays are equal?

How does Christianity view women? Equal to men?

But at least Christians don't kill homosexuals, don't subjugate women. Right?

Wrong.

The only reason Christianity and hardcore Christians don't do it is because secular, democratic laws do not permit it. If Western democracies were to go hardcore Christian, it will happen. It has before, not very long ago.

Heck, still happen today: Gays can't get married; women aren't pay the same for the same work... and not too long ago, women can't vote because they'll vote whatever their husband or father vote anyway; women belong to the father and if married, owned by her husband.

But sure, Christianity has progressed since a few decades ago... no it hasn't. It got forced there because rational, secular people won't put up with it.

Muslims and Arabs in the ME wanted democratic, secular form of gov't. But that would go against our Imperial Grand Strategy so it was overthrown by foreign powers. When the progressive Arabs and Muslim were hanged or otherwise silenced, with dictators and tyrants armed and put in their thrones... what do you expect to happen?

 

[luutzu]

A lot of innocent people got killed in WW2, in London, Dresden and Hiroshima among others.

If there is a 'war' on terrorism, then innocent people on both sides will die, it's an unfortunate fact.

Do the ends justify the means ? Obviously our leaders think so otherwise they would not be doing drone attacks.

Despite the nice speeches, us plebs' security are never a priority. It serves money and power better if we are insecure, poor and dependent.

 

[Tisme]

The only reason Christianity and hardcore Christians don't do it is because secular, democratic laws do not permit it.

Hand in glove arrangement, the Christians invented and implemented secular rule of law.... others would tell you otherwise, but we don't rewrite history around here.

 

[qldfrog]

99.993% of all Muslims are not Jihadists. More Muslims are killed each year by 'terrorist' organisations than other people....keep things in perspective.

Hard to admit CanOz but http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/
The nazis killed a lot of white people some with blue eyes, many pure arayans, for a fanatic, killing other muslims is not an issue, there is (as always) a koran rule justifying colateral damage.
The longuer the denial, the worst it will be for both non muslim and the majority let's say 60/70 % of muslims we could cohabit with.

 

[qldfrog]

oops bellenuit had sent the link already, look how brainwashed these racists like qldfrog are..
Funnuy how people do accept lessons on shares from people with experience but deny the right for any people with previous experience of that plague to try to guide this country, my country and it means something to me, out of the same mess....
I now can understand the frustration of the jews in the 1930's when trying to convince unsuccessfully Europe of the danger ahead

 

[luutzu]

Hand in glove arrangement, the Christians invented and implemented secular rule of law.... others would tell you otherwise, but we don't rewrite history around here.

Yea, like the Lords and Barons at Runnymede writing the Magna Carta for all free men.

 

[qldfrog]

Muslims and Arabs in the ME wanted democratic, secular form of gov't.

When they are allowed to vote, they vote islamist governments for a non secular rule..my God (any) you are so so far from the facts.Egypt Turkey for the latest

 

[luutzu]

oops bellenuit had sent the link already, look how brainwashed these racists like qldfrog are..
Funnuy how people do accept lessons on shares from people with experience but deny the right for any people with previous experience of that plague to try to guide this country, my country and it means something to me, out of the same mess....
I now can understand the frustration of the jews in the 1930's when trying to convince unsuccessfully Europe of the danger ahead

Did I read your last line about the Jews right? It can't be.

What did the Jews of Europe tried unsuccessfully to warn Europe again?

Did the Jews tell Europe and the Fuhrer that Jews are greedy, dirty, rotten scoundrels and should be returned back to Nazi Germany for some sort of solution?

 

[luutzu]

When they are allowed to vote, they vote islamist governments for a non secular rule..my God (any) you are so so far from the facts.Egypt Turkey for the latest

First, if it's democratic then people can vote however they like. You can't just accept the results only if it goes your way.

Egypt's democratically-elected gov't was overthrown... guess who was behind that? Oh yes, the president wasn't nice, so better get the Egyptian a military strongman instead.

Turkey's current gov't isn't democratic... he's turning the country towards an Islamic theocracy - shutting down the press etc. etc.

I guess there's always Hamas - dam Palestinians not knowing what's good for them and dare vote for a gov't that aren't in the pocket of Israel.

 

[qldfrog]

First, if it's democratic then people can vote however they like. You can't just accept the results only if it goes your way.

yes indeed and they want islam rules and sharia law yet read again what youjust wrote about their desire of democracy and secular government;
But life is too short, I leave you to your comfortable delusions.Keep playing the Chamberlain and the nice guy, you will have a nice sticker from the left and may be invited to a multicultural fair.Make sure not to bend too much is all I can say as you are getting done a big way and think of your kids sometimes, especially if you have a daughter.

 

[luutzu]

yes indeed and they want islam rules and sharia law yet read again what youjust wrote about their desire of democracy and secular government;
But life is too short, I leave you to your comfortable delusions.Keep playing the Chamberlain and the nice guy, you will have a nice sticker from the left and may be invited to a multicultural fair.Make sure not to bend too much is all I can say as you are getting done a big way and think of your kids sometimes, especially if you have a daughter.

How many Western political leaders attend Church and pay lip service to Jesus and the Bible? Practically all of them. You seriously think they follow the Bible's ethical teachings?

How long did it take for any Western/Christian democracy to separate itself from Christianity in any serious manner? Even the US, with its proscribed secularism couldn't separate itself from Christianity.

What these all mean is that political leaders, secular or whatnot, have to pay lip service to the dominant religion of people they want to rule over. If that mean having to pray to this or that God, believe that gay people or Christians, or Muslim or whatever is convenient are good/bad... they'd do it.


Chamberlain we've dealt with before. Keep civilising enough savages around the world and sooner or later the empire where the sun never set couldn't do much against a rising power that it must "appease".


Are all these discussions to keep our family and innocent people safe; or are we here to beat up Muslims and trash Islam in a pizzing contest?

What happen the last a country thought to keep itself pure, cleanse it from Jews and undesirables? 6 million innocent people got slaughtered right?

What happen 13 years ago when most of us believe our leaders that our existence is at risk from a Mushroom cloud and we must get them before they get us? Some 2 million Iraqis dead; God know how many hundreds of thousands other Arabs and Muslim in neighbouring countries are also dead; how many millions lost their home, displaced; how many more unborn will die early death from cancer, from destruction of their infrastructure and ways of life?

How many of our own people killed? How many more countless of our poor and working families are broken, drove into early grave due to cutbacks in social welfare to fund military actions?

And what are we doing? What are we being told is the solution? More bombs abroad; more tough talks; more spending on security at home; more belt tightening; more finger pointing at innocent people.

Most Muslims in the ME couldn't do much about their situation - what with warlords and dictators and terrorists on one side and imperial overlords on the other. We here at least could protest and not buy into the BS. At least take advantage of that.

 

[Tisme]

99.993% of all Muslims are not Jihadists. More Muslims are killed each year by 'terrorist' organisations than other people....keep things in perspective.

They are two different variables.

1)99.993% is a guess and has no supporting proofs
2) Culling benign Muslims would be seen as strengthening the herd and the grip of fear within the herd.

 

[Tisme]

How many Western political leaders attend Church and pay lip service to Jesus and the Bible? Practically all of them. You seriously think they follow the Bible's ethical teachings?

.

Considering most of them ar Roman Catholics these days, put in the seats by the Roman Catholic church, I would say that lip service is fairly distant from the servitude of Papal bulls.

 

[wayneL]

Some of you are missing the point by focussing on terrorism.

We in the west have developed a society with a particular legal and social order. I think we agree that by and large, we like our society, it works reasonably well for us. In particular, women have won the right to be viewed as equals and to behave and dress as they see fit without being subjugated by a patriarchal and misogynistic male establishment.

We have our common and statutory law which for the most part, benefits all as a whole.

Like it or not, our cultural traditions are based on Judeo/Christian value systems.

Terrorism is only one small aspect, the evil of Islam, as far as we are concerned, is its cultural and religious incongruity. Once a critical mass of Muslims infiltrates an area/city/country, things change **and from our perspective** not in a good way.

So you clowns trying to defend Islam in the name of tolerance can go hopping to Hell as far as I'm concerned, you are vandals, the enemy within. I for one am interested in defending our culture.

 

[Tisme]

Like it or not, our cultural traditions are based on Judeo/Christian value systems.

.

London swings like a pendulum do:


Afghanistan:

http://glamourdaze.com/2015/08/fashion-freedom-in-pre-war-afghanistan.html

Iran:

http://www.boredpanda.com/iranian-women-fashion-1970-before-islamic-revolution-iran/

 

[CanOz]

Some of you are missing the point by focussing on terrorism.

We in the west have developed a society with a particular legal and social order. I think we agree that by and large, we like our society, it works reasonably well for us. In particular, women have won the right to be viewed as equals and to behave and dress as they see fit without being subjugated by a patriarchal and misogynistic male establishment.

We have our common and statutory law which for the most part, benefits all as a whole.

Like it or not, our cultural traditions are based on Judeo/Christian value systems.

Terrorism is only one small aspect, the evil of Islam, as far as we are concerned, is its cultural and religious incongruity. Once a critical mass of Muslims infiltrates an area/city/country, things change **and from our perspective** not in a good way.

So you clowns trying to defend Islam in the name of tolerance can go hopping to Hell as far as I'm concerned, you are vandals, the enemy within. I for one am interested in defending our culture.

I agree with this for the most part.

I'm certainly not in favor of Sharia Law or any other law other than what is passed by our lawmakers. But other cultures are free to do as they wish under the guidance of the constitution.

I still do not believe that Islam in inherently evil, but the media would like you to believe that.