Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

[luutzu]

Islam cannot be modernised say greatest Arabic poet.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...-modernised-says-worlds-greatest-arabic-poet/

Being raised a Muslim himself and having one of the greatest understandings of the language of the Quran, Adonis said: “You can not reform a religion. If they are reformed, [the original meaning] is separated from it. Therefore, modern Muslims and a modern Islam is already impossible. If there is no separation between religion and state, there will be no democracy especially without equality for women. Then we will keep a theocratic system. So it will end.”

Laying down a heavy critique of the Islamic world, he added: “Arabs have no more creative force. Islam does not contribute to intellectual life, it suggests no discussion. It is no longer thought. It produces no thinking, no art, no science, no vision that could change the world. This repetition is the sign of its end. The Arabs will continue to exist, but they will not make the world better.”

A Saudi Morals Enforcer Called for a More Liberal Islam. Then the Death Threats Began.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/11/w...ia-islam-wahhabism-religious-police.html?_r=0

This article is also worth reading for a better understanding of Wahhabism

Yea, Islam is so backward it somehow, for some reason, permit its scholars to translate the works of Greek philosophers and scientists; books that made possible Western Renaissance (re-birth).

I guess they were only translating for fun - never add anything or ever put those knowledge to practice.

It is so vile and barbaric that during the height of its power, it did not commit genocide and force conversion on its colonies. Other religion, however, ... yeahhh... wash that one away.

So unscientific its medicine men conduct surgeries and purposefully set out to cure human diseases - instead of whipping themselves and wait for God in the afterlife.

 

[luutzu]

Islam needs to have a reformation, like the Catholic Church did. This will never happen. Islam will continue to be backward, forever.

Luther reform the entire Christian/Catholic faith did he? He didn't start his own sect?

Stop taking credit for the secular, democratic and civil liberties that others fought for - often against the Church's wishes.

 

[SirRumpole]

Yea, Islam is so backward it somehow, for some reason, permit its scholars to translate the works of Greek philosophers and scientists; books that made possible Western Renaissance (re-birth).

.

But what have they done recently ?

 

[qldfrog]

But what have they done recently ?

Indeed, and bring us me a bit of proof of that translation or the so called age of enlightment when they were occupying Spain at their latest high...
, next you will tell me they invented zero, etc a big nice convenient urban legend when you dig a bit more.
Christianity is not clean either but the inquisition is not that bad compared to nowadays Saudi's sharia (the so called civilised one):https://uk.news.yahoo.com/saudi-arabia-juvenile-prisoner-faces-230227718.html#Veqvbya
THIS is salafism, not 100y or a thousand year ago but now, and this is the version of islam a majority of muslim wants:http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article4730825.ece for example
Truth hurts but so do the bombings.

 

[luutzu]

But what have they done recently ?

Hard to be creative much when your country has been colonised and looted for the past two to three hundred years... and still going.


Let's not demean an entire people shall we.

Empires do rise and fall. Best to study why they fall lest our hubris and arrogance get us there.

Empires don't decay then fall because its people start thinking they're no longer worthy and superior. They tend to decay then collapse soon after they reach the peak of expansion - having too many wars, going broke, get taken over.

May serve us well to have a healthy respect for others, especially "the enemy".

A rag tag group of terrorists spent maybe $1M and in 15 years, cause an alliance of history's largest armies to spend some $10 trillion abroad creating enemies and quagmires everywhere; at home countless billions to secure every place imaginable; further impoverishing and dividing its people.

Without think tanks or super computers or satellites and smart bombs, they managed to turn every country forgotten luggage a potential weapon literally stopping an entire few block radius each time... yea, historians may not look back on these plunders as anything but the work of idiots at the helm.

 

[SirRumpole]

Hard to be creative much when your country has been colonised and looted for the past two to three hundred years... and still going.


Let's not demean an entire people shall we.

Empires do rise and fall. Best to study why they fall lest our hubris and arrogance get us there.

Empires don't decay then fall because its people start thinking they're no longer worthy and superior. They tend to decay then collapse soon after they reach the peak of expansion - having too many wars, going broke, get taken over.

May serve us well to have a healthy respect for others, especially "the enemy".

A rag tag group of terrorists spent maybe $1M and in 15 years, cause an alliance of history's largest armies to spend some $10 trillion abroad creating enemies and quagmires everywhere; at home countless billions to secure every place imaginable; further impoverishing and dividing its people.

Without think tanks or super computers or satellites and smart bombs, they managed to turn every country forgotten luggage a potential weapon literally stopping an entire few block radius each time... yea, historians may not look back on these plunders as anything but the work of idiots at the helm.

There are more Muslim countries in the world than Iraq and Syria. Saudi Arabia, one of the richest countries in the world could invest billions in research and education and yet their people are poor slaves, only the Sheiks are rich.

Same with the other oil rich Gulf States. They are corrupt at the top, don't care about the population and use religion to keep them enslaved. Still think Muslims States are superior ?

 

[luutzu]

There are more Muslim countries in the world than Iraq and Syria. Saudi Arabia, one of the richest countries in the world could invest billions in research and education and yet their people are poor slaves, only the Sheiks are rich.

Same with the other oil rich Gulf States. They are corrupt at the top, don't care about the population and use religion to keep them enslaved. Still think Muslims States are superior ?

First, I don't think any state or people are superior to any other ones. We, they, all have our moments in the Sun.

Second, I think what makes a country, a people, civilised and moral and stuff worth bragging about is what we do, not what we say of ourselves.

Third, what wealth, height of civility and democracy and liberties a country have could, and did, get lost. e.g. Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.


To your point about Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States... No one but the clerics would want to live under any theocracy. So we're lucky, I know I am.

Having said that, certain Gulf states - Qatar from memory - has a much higher GDP per capita than most Western countries - so the average pleb are pretty well off there. No freedom while they're in their country, but I'd imagine they won't be so strict once they're in the lands of the free.

For Saudi and all those Gulf states being run by religious nuts and dictators... all of them are so because the U.S and its allies make it so. It's just what you do when you're the only superpower left standing after the world goes to heck: you set up bases all around the world; you take what is most valuable; give what is less valuable to your lieutenants; and what you prize but can't get you fenced in.

So as much as we like to believe that Arabs (and hence Islam) are backward and regressive religious nuts... the people living under those nuts do not like it and has been, are, fighting back.

It's not about world conquest - that comes later. Now it's mainly for national independence.

How do you organise and unite against imperial powers? Communism is dead and the Bear is in hibernation; there are no other power interested in helping you... so you use the oldest trick in the book and get religious, really really religious.

That's at the upper echelon of power. At the lower runk, at the common terrorist level, they're just people wanting a job to feed their family... and it doesn't take much looking around to see that yea, maybe the country is all screwed because of foreigners and I don't like it.

----

So we can talk down to the Muslims and praise ourselves all we like... the reality, the history, of the situation is that a world imperial power is trying to crush rebellions in its far-flung colonies.

It is quite simple. Why is that so hard to believe?

So we, the people, can either use our brain and think a little; or we can just buy into the BS about clashes of civilisation - Good versus evil and watch as our gov't crush the barbarians, and some time the barbarians pushes back.

Back in the good old days of empire, we could literally annihilate an entire people and nobody could stop us or even blink. That and there are plenty of goodies like land and continents to get from it.

Nowadays... being more civilised; with our own plebs having a say in how it's not cool to commit genocide; that and there are more losses than material gains from imperial ventures - it might be more humane to call this thing off lest a rising power sit, watch, build its own outposts and we'd be so broke and over-extended we either retreat, give concessions or bring life on earth to an end.

Imagine the Greeks, or the Romans, or the Spanards, or the Chinese, or the Indians back in their heydays... I don't think any of its kings and peasants could ever imagine being dictated to by barbarians, so dirt poor and living in slumps.

 

[Ves]

Yea, Islam is so backward it somehow, for some reason, permit its scholars to translate the works of Greek philosophers and scientists; books that made possible Western Renaissance (re-birth).

What are you even implying?

You do realize Western scholars are still translating them too.

Don't you?

And you do know a lot of the SURVIVING source texts are in Arabic in the first place, don't you?

 

[bellenuit]

Interesting statistic for those counting translations:

"The total number of books translated into Arabic during the 1,000 years since the age of Caliph Al-Ma’moun [a ninth-century Arab ruler who was a patron of cultural interaction between Arab, Persian, and Greek scholars] to this day is less than those translated in Spain in one year” World Press.

https://www.altalang.com/beyond-words/2009/08/10/a-note-on-arabic-literacy-and-translation/

It would be very unwise to assume that because the Arab world was the pinnacle of learning one time that it continues to this day. Islamic scholarship came to a rather abrupt halt when Islam came under the influence of Imam Hamid al-Ghazali in the 11th century who preached mathematics was the work of the devil. Neil de Grasse Tyson explains it here:

 

[Wysiwyg]

Same with the other oil rich Gulf States. They are corrupt at the top, don't care about the population and use religion to keep them enslaved.

A sometimes wise and oft times imaginative author wrote "control is the state religion". Religion exists via the obey or else threat. Once you're in, either through parental guidance or the need for something to believe in, the exit is psychologically barred in Christianity and both psychologically and physically barred in Islam. Fear has always been the most effective tool in maintaining control over the subservient.

 

[Tink]

Is that like Political Correctness imposed on the people by the state?

The CONTROL factor, and their social engineering.

Never have Voltaire's words been so pertinent””a grand censorship is being engineered through political correctness.

 

[Tisme]

What are you even implying?

You do realize Western scholars are still translating them too.

Don't you?

And you do know a lot of the SURVIVING source texts are in Arabic in the first place, don't you?

lookup up "tongue in cheek"

 

[Ves]

lookup up "tongue in cheek"

My bad. Missed it.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Is that like Political Correctness imposed on the people by the state?

The CONTROL factor, and their social engineering.

Never have Voltaire's words been so pertinent—a grand censorship is being engineered through political correctness.

Is there evidence of this in Australia? Our company has introduced more females into the workplace and the females swear (which I thought was impolite for a male to do around a female) in general conversation. This surprises me but I think they do it to show they are not offended by swearing.

 

[MrBurns]

Suicide bombings in Kabul leave 80 dead

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-24/kabul-attack-islamic-state-claims-suicide-bombing/7655470

 

[qldfrog]

But all is good it seems, the 9 deads in Munich are just victim from a mad bullied teen.
.So all is good and pig can fly;;;oops lambs can fly, let's not be insensitive to our brother in blood muslims fanatic friends...
Seriously....
But will only fool the ones who want to be fooled: Luutzu, Basilio: all is good and i am just a racist guy; you know have the proof straight from the news...
Sleep well.What else could you expect from a goivernm,ent wholet itself be invaded by a million plus a year.Germans will not swallow that one.

 

[noco]

Suicide bombings in Kabul leave 80 dead

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-24/kabul-attack-islamic-state-claims-suicide-bombing/7655470

Another Muslim terrorist attack and we need more Muslim here in Australia like a hole in the head.

 

[luutzu]

But all is good it seems, the 9 deads in Munich are just victim from a mad bullied teen.
.So all is good and pig can fly;;;oops lambs can fly, let's not be insensitive to our brother in blood muslims fanatic friends...
Seriously....
But will only fool the ones who want to be fooled: Luutzu, Basilio: all is good and i am just a racist guy; you know have the proof straight from the news...
Sleep well.What else could you expect from a goivernm,ent wholet itself be invaded by a million plus a year.Germans will not swallow that one.

How can you say stuff like that? No one is excusing or justifying terrorism; or see terrorist as "brother in blood".

Maybe we are "denying the evil of Islam" because we are serious about not wanting innocent people killed or harm - innocents both in the ME and also in the West.

Think through what you're saying. It's messed up.

 

[qldfrog]

How can you say stuff like that? No one is excusing or justifying terrorism; or see terrorist as "brother in blood".

Maybe we are "denying the evil of Islam" because we are serious about not wanting innocent people killed or harm - innocents both in the ME and also in the West.

Think through what you're saying. It's messed up.

it is messed up when officials (and some people even here) deny the obvious just because it does not fit their belief irreespective of facts;
they tried the same talk in Nice, he killed 30% of muslims so ..(as if it was a proof of anything among these ravid lunatics), was deranged, under mental health treatment, then you learn he had accomplices, had prepared this for months.

Not all murders by Muslims are terrorism sure, but Wurburg, Munich and Nice (people have stopped pretending that last one was just an accident...) are deeply linked to a jihadist religious view.

By denying this, and with people facing facts, not sitting in an armchair in Australia but living it in Europe, that position and denial actually inflames the debate and Europe will end up in a black /white (I do not mean race here) civil war; with many innocents paying [moderate muslims included].
But too many people profit/have profited for years from that situation : both left and right wings for this to stop;

Just another murder Islam has nothing to do with it:
http://www.bild.de/regional/stuttga...-mit-reutlingen-reutlingen-46972048.bild.html

They have an ironic term in France now:
Pasdamalgam-> from "Pas d'amalgame" ->no amalgam/link;
people are so sick of the brainwashing that there is no trust whatsoever left with either media or government releases.

 

[qldfrog]

Suicide bombings in Kabul leave 80 dead

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-24/kabul-attack-islamic-state-claims-suicide-bombing/7655470

RIP, sadly the islamo facism is everywhere, does not spare their own cobelievers and are even in Brazil it seems...