Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

[Macquack]

This is the crux of the problem which you unintelligently refuse to accept because of your poisonous extreme leftist ideology.

There you go again Wayne. If you don't like luutzu's opinion, he must be a looney lefty.

 

[wayneL]

Whatever you call not liking Islam and Muslims because it's Islam and Muslim, it is still prejudice. You can't say I like Christians and Jews, like their culture and values; and I don't particularly like Islam and Muslims... you can't say that then say you're not prejudicial.

So alright, your beliefs aren't racist, they are still bigoted aren't they Sifu?

That is not to say you're a racist or a bigot, just your opinions on Muslims and Islam happen to be bigoted.

I don't think there is such a thing as a "secularized Indian Muslim". You mean a Muslim who does not practice Islam too much right? Like a Catholic with many wives, or a Catholic who uses contraception and get a divorce if things don't work out.

Maybe a less strict Muslim is still a Muslim... maybe it is possible that Muslims are generally moderate and goes to Mosque and pray to Allah for the same reason most people of other faith also go do their prayers for.

You can criticise and reject Islam all you want, no one will tell you you can't do it - not me. But you can't start criticism by defining Islam as an evil, barbaric cult teaching its followers to blow themselves up and murdering innocent people; and any part of Islam that doesn't teach that is not really Islam.

That's not what criticism is, not in an academic/intellectual sense. Leave the "just point out the bad bits" criticism to the street talk Sifu.



So let's criticise Islam... are there parts in its various books that are backward and regressive; are there practises it preaches that the world and Muslims could do without; are Muslim Koran-basher who are just insane; are there fairy tales and fancy talks of miracles and other nonsense.... Sure there are.

Is that what Islam is all about? Are all Muslim crazy lunatics hell bend on murdering infidels?

Are there no crazy, fairytale nonsense in the Torah or the Bible? Are all Jewish and Christian people sanely? Are there no violent and barbaric teaching and practises in the Judaeo/Christian value system?

Gotta be fair and balanced when we criticise. And pointing out the bad and nasty bits in others but completely ignoring our own, or completely dismissive of the good and wise in other's religion and culture... that's not criticism; that's just kicking dirt in their face.

No they are not bigoted, they are realist.

If I choose not to associate with pedophiles...

If I choose not to be friends with adulterers or swingers...

If I choose not to have sex with homosexuals..

If I choose not to bow to Mecca five times a day...

Or give burnt offerings to a Bhudda statue..

Or have an orgy with the local coven...

Or hang a dreamcatcher on my rear vision mirror...

Does that make me bigoted?

Of course not. It means I have made cultural choices, racism only in the minds of the politically indoctrinated like you luu and unthinking tribalistic tossers like the Quacker.

By all means lets be tolerant of difference, in fact, viva la difference, but tolerant of intolerance?

Intolerable.

 

[luutzu]

No they are not bigoted, they are realist.

If I choose not to associate with pedophiles...

If I choose not to be friends with adulterers or swingers...

If I choose not to have sex with homosexuals..

If I choose not to bow to Mecca five times a day...

Or give burnt offerings to a Bhudda statue..

Or have an orgy with the local coven...

Or hang a dreamcatcher on my rear vision mirror...

Does that make me bigoted?

Of course not. It means I have made cultural choices, racism only in the minds of the politically indoctrinated like you luu and unthinking tribalistic tossers like the Quacker.

By all means lets be tolerant of difference, in fact, viva la difference, but tolerant of intolerance?

Intolerable.

When people stop you from abusing their rights to practise their religion, it does not mean they're oppressing your right. It just mean that they do not want their legal rights being oppressed.

Sure, practice whatever religion or sexual orientation you like; don't hang around paedophile - in fact, kick their teeth in; criticise Islam, hate terrorist and turn them in when you know one... But none of these mean you ought to beat up all Muslim and want Islam ban.

Are all Muslims terrorist? Is Islam an evil cult that will turn any listener into terrorist and murderer?

If Muslims are all terrorist, if Islam is evil... it is very easy to prove: All the hundreds of thousand of Muslim in Australia, the millions in Indonesia - all of them would be out there blowing things up and killing people. And no, the fact that there's an attack now and then by Muslim does not mean Muslim are all terrorist in waiting - there are other factors and influence beside their religion.


People can't go around hating a Muslim because he's a devout Muslim; can't say "all Muslim are terrorist"; Islam is evil... can't do that and expect people to not call it for what it is.

By all mean, hate terrorist - Who the heck doesn't? But hate Muslim because a terrorist happen to also be a Muslim?

Anyway...

 

[qldfrog]

Anyway:
the religion of peace in action again as in RIP:http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/two-knifeman-take-several-hostages-in-normandy-church-in-france-police-20160726-gqecui.html
until the next one, but remember:
"Just another act from a/two mental patients, do not react:the terrorists would win, etc etc" there is no IS link, they got their knifes/glock on the internet.
What have I forgotten in the list of crappy excuses Europeans are supposed to swallow in the past weeks?
Ah yes, they just wanted to emulate a mass murder, they drank beer, are french born (statistically probable, we will see) so can not be linked to Islam.
A shame I am not a good christian I would offer my throat and become a saint; but did not work well for the ME/African christians, or buddists in afghanistan, pakistan, indonesia or malaysia

 

[Gringotts Bank]

I don't know how Islam works, but I would have assumed that the Imams and Muftis have significant say over how their flock behaves, including the radicals.

Why are they not on mainstream media telling radicals- "This must stop!".... ? They seem very silent. Wouldn't a directive to all their followers be a wise move?

What am I missing here?

 

[bellenuit]

I don't know how Islam works, but I would have assumed that the Imams and Muftis have significant say over how their flock behaves, including the radicals.

Why are they not on mainstream media telling radicals- "This must stop!".... ? They seem very silent. Wouldn't a directive to all their followers be a wise move?

What am I missing here?

Because ISIS and its followers are being true to the Koran, so there is little the Imams and Muftis can say. Moderate muslims are the ones deviating from true Islam. What ISIS does is very similar to what is ordained by law in Saudi Arabia. No acceptance of other religions, death to homosexuals and apostates. Women are just chattels.

ISIS Is Islam

https://michaelsherlockauthor.wordpress.com/2015/04/01/isis-is-islam/

 

[Gringotts Bank]

Because ISIS and its followers are being true to the Koran, so there is little the Imams and Muftis can say. Moderate muslims are the ones deviating from true Islam. What ISIS does is very similar to what is ordained by law in Saudi Arabia. No acceptance of other religions, death to homosexuals and apostates. Women are just chattels.

ok, that makes sense. And I guess if the moderates speak up, they will get excommunicated or worse.

That article is an eye opener.

 

[Tink]

Anyway:
the religion of peace in action again as in RIP:http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/two-knifeman-take-several-hostages-in-normandy-church-in-france-police-20160726-gqecui.html
until the next one, but remember:
"Just another act from a/two mental patients, do not react:the terrorists would win, etc etc" there is no IS link, they got their knifes/glock on the internet.
What have I forgotten in the list of crappy excuses Europeans are supposed to swallow in the past weeks?
Ah yes, they just wanted to emulate a mass murder, they drank beer, are french born (statistically probable, we will see) so can not be linked to Islam.
A shame I am not a good christian I would offer my throat and become a saint; but did not work well for the ME/African christians, or buddists in afghanistan, pakistan, indonesia or malaysia

Sorry to see what is happening in your native country, qldfrog.

We are not long back from Europe, and I must have hugged every nun I saw.

We met a lovely French priest in Rome, seemed to always bump into him, and I told him to come to Australia - Melbourne.

 

[qldfrog]

I don't know how Islam works, but I would have assumed that the Imams and Muftis have significant say over how their flock behaves, including the radicals.

Why are they not on mainstream media telling radicals- "This must stop!".... ? They seem very silent. Wouldn't a directive to all their followers be a wise move?

What am I missing here?

GB you are missing a reading of a Koran, the understanding that any infidel is subhuman in the muslim view, and that these terrorists are all martyrs for the good cause for a muslim salafist.
And then read http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/about the real interpretation of a moderate muslim...
Then make your mind, you may not like what knowledge brings

 

[qldfrog]

Sorry to see what is happening in your native country, qldfrog..

Has been coming for a long time : too many left wingers there denying the obvious (even now) to be worth sacrificing your life when it was already too late,10% of population at least (we forget the illegal immigrants in these figures) now, and many second generation french born not counted as muslim yet of muslim heritage/"values"
More will come until it ends up in Sharia or bloodbath.Sad

 

[luutzu]

So can we go and give all Muslims a final solution now? Or should we tell our leaders to keep bombing more terrorist in the ME - because apparently that's not what they have been doing.

Or maybe we haven't been killing enough terrorist and should now get serious about it.

 

[wayneL]

So can we go and give all Muslims a final solution now? Or should we tell our leaders to keep bombing more terrorist in the ME - because apparently that's not what they have been doing.

Or maybe we haven't been killing enough terrorist and should now get serious about it.

Again, you comprehensively miss the point.

 

[Tink]

Well I can't speak for Muslims, Luutzu, as our country has always been Christian.
I have no idea about their rules and regulations - do you?
We grew up Christian, whether you were a believer or not, our laws are set that way.

Off topic, I find it interesting the history that has been displaced in this country, as I have pointed out on a few things.
Why have they omitted where they came from?

I agree with what Wayne said, that no one should be forced to accept anything, which is what is happening in Victoria.

One thing that does annoy me is the -- oh but Christians..................oh but Christians nothing.
When is the ABC going to be fair in their broadcasting?

 

[luutzu]

Again, you comprehensively miss the point.

What is the point?

And again, don't take this to be that I or people on the "left" are excusing terrorism. All we are trying to do, and by we I mean both left and right, are trying to keep innocent people safe, right?

What's the "realistic" solution to hopefully achieve that?

Ban Muslims; build a wall?; Go out and beat up any Muslim we see on our streets? Call all the Imams and Clerics in and torture them? Teach that Christianity and Judaism are awesome while Islam is evil?

Why don't the realist among us table their solution and we see what that will look like?

For example...

Let's be like Saudi Arabia... let, instead of forbidding anything deemed "non-Islamic" by the high council; we set up our own council and ban anything Islamic.

Let's be like Israel and root out all Arab and Muslim from the land; let's build walls, draft all non-Muslim Australian and train them to take out any "dogs" and "animals" that dare leave their cages.


Go study history. See how great and civilised countries decay and fall.

But ey, if it make us feel good and feel safe calling names and beating up innocent people who look and sound like a terrorist... go ahead.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

So can we go and give all Muslims a final solution now? Or should we tell our leaders to keep bombing more terrorist in the ME - because apparently that's not what they have been doing.

Or maybe we haven't been killing enough terrorist and should now get serious about it.

No, just a separation of peoples with vastly different lifestyles/values/beliefs.

A split national identity is like a schizophrenic personailty, with different aspects jarring and clashing. Multiculturalism is pathological. A taste of other cultures is great, but most of the population needs a firm rootedness in a stable, reliable and familiar cultural identity.

One day in the future, national identities won't matter. One day, there will be no nations or borders - all false divisions will vanish. But if politicians are too PC/idealistic/futuristic, they create problems. A dose of realism is needed.

 

[luutzu]

Well I can't speak for Muslims, Luutzu, as our country has always been Christian.
I have no idea about their rules and regulations - do you?
We grew up Christian, whether you were a believer or not, our laws are set that way.

Off topic, I find it interesting the history that has been displaced in this country, as I have pointed out on a few things.
Why have they omitted where they came from?

I agree with what Wayne said, that no one should be forced to accept anything, which is what is happening in Victoria.

One thing that does annoy me is the -- oh but Christians..................oh but Christians nothing.
When is the ABC going to be fair in their broadcasting?

As I said before, a person's rights are not oppressed when laws and lefty nutjobs tell them they cannot abuse and oppress other people's rights and religion.

I know a lot of Christians, and they'd be horrified to hear that other Christians think it is a God-given right for Christians to go and beat up on Islam or ban other religion.

People are generally decent, or at least neutral. I don't think people lean towards evil and barbarism. So if Islam is as vile and as crazy and murderous as some of us believe, you seriously think it would have 1.5 billion followers?

And if those 1.5 billion follow an evil religion preaching nasty stuff, why aren't all or most or a large portion of them doing those nasty stuff?

Why are terrorists tend to be from countries the West is at war with? Or terrorism occur in countries that's at war?

Maybe there are other factors involve than just Islam and religion.

 

[luutzu]

No, just a separation of peoples with vastly different lifestyles/values/beliefs.

A split national identity is like a schizophrenic personailty, with different aspects jarring and clashing. Multiculturalism is pathological. A taste of other cultures is great, but most of the population needs a firm rootedness in a stable, reliable and familiar cultural identity.

One day in the future, national identities won't matter. One day, there will be no nations or borders. But if you force that, as PC politicians do, you create problems.

People make their own choices whether to be friend with people of certain characteristics - race, culture, tastes, looks, size. No politician or parent can force a person who they decides to hang around with.

So laws like Australia that simply does not permit discrimination against people base on race, religion, disability... that's been working pretty well for all of us.

No culture are what they used to be. Only extinct culture and frozen people are ever the same as their parents or ancestors. We all adapt and grow, and with it, our society and culture will also change.

 

[qldfrog]

So if Islam is as vile and as crazy and murderous as some of us believe, you seriously think it would have 1.5 billion followers?

It could nearly be funny: if it was not a murderous convert by the sword religion, it would never have reached 1.5 billions "followers"...whose ancestors have all been wiped out and cruxified/slain while the Luutzu of the time were trying to recite buddist peace mantra and christian pardon.
But now, it goes faster than riding from town to town and travel/migration is allowed speeding the process

 

[qldfrog]

We all adapt and grow, and with it, our society and culture will also change.

True once shariah is set, no more bombing, no more issues, all salafism joy and harmony; and then no change whatsoever for the next millenium.
We could start saving on DV and feminism campaign, LGT referendum.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

People make their own choices whether to be friend with people of certain characteristics - race, culture, tastes, looks, size. No politician or parent can force a person who they decides to hang around with.

So laws like Australia that simply does not permit discrimination against people base on race, religion, disability... that's been working pretty well for all of us.

No culture are what they used to be. Only extinct culture and frozen people are ever the same as their parents or ancestors. We all adapt and grow, and with it, our society and culture will also change.

Yes that's all sounds fair. But should we allow criminal bikie gangs to be part of our culture so that people can freely associate with them, or is it ok to legislate against their existence?

I guess I'm confused about what it is modern Australian Muslims actually believe. I've only ever met one (a family, actually), and I was too afraid to ask.