Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

[SirRumpole]

off topic... but your statement makes all religions into cults.

There are cults in every religion.

Scientology, Davidians, Mormons, Exclusive Bretheren, Jehovas Witnesses etc, they all cherry pick bits out of the Bible that appeal to them and ignore the rest.

No doubt Muslims are the same.

 

[Value Collector]

off topic... but your statement makes all religions into cults.

There are cults in every religion.

.

pretty much all religions are cults.

"Cult" is just a term that the larger religion calls the smaller religion to try and denigrate it, but they are all cults.

Cult definition is - "a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object"

under that definition all Christian and Islamic faiths are cults, simple as that.

 

[Value Collector]

There are like 1.5 billion Muslims in the world noco, are you saying they're all Jihadists?

It would be like hating on every Irish person because you hate the IRA Killings.

Rather than focus on hating the people, focus on the nationalism and tribalism ideas that cause people to want to kill over flags and borders.

Yes religion is bad, but not all religious people are, in fact only a minority are. So rather that attack the people, and push them further into the arms of the extremists, debate the ideas, embrace the people, destroy the faith.

Rant over, VC out.

 

[SirRumpole]

Yes religion is bad, but not all religious people are, in fact only a minority are.

Funny, I seem to have said the same thing in one of our marathons and you appeared to imply than anyone silly enough to believe in religion was corrupt in some way.



Glad you have come around to the view that people can be religious AND be good at the same time. (Not that I am either of course )

 

[qldfrog]

off topic... but your statement makes all religions into cults.

They are: a quest toward brain washing and stupid followers; Islam is especially efficient in the last point and unmerciful for the non muslims, that is all;I do not value hardcore christians or jews much highers but except for abortion clinics in the US, they are usually a bit more open and less keen to blow me and my family

 

[Value Collector]

Funny, I seem to have said the same thing in one of our marathons and you appeared to imply than anyone silly enough to believe in religion was corrupt in some way.



Glad you have come around to the view that people can be religious AND be good at the same time. (Not that I am either of course )

No you were implying religion was good, because in some cases it caused good people to do good things, that's different to what I am saying, My stance is that most people, religious or not are good people.

My stance hasn't changed, I have never been in favor of attacking religious people, or taking away peoples rights to religious freedom, I have only ever attack the concept of religion and how convincing people that myths are true can lead them to do bad things they otherwise wouldn't.

I have consistently stood up for religious freedom and things such as halal etc, I don't go around attacking the people or their rights to religious freedom.

----------------------------------------

Its a common miss conception that because I hate religion I must therefore want to ban it and that I hate religious people. I love people, I hate the system that is actively trying to hood wink people and preach lies, I don't hate the people who just happen to have been tricked from a young age, in many cases I feel sorry for them, they are victims.

Any way, I have reading to do, Bye.

 

[SirRumpole]

Its a common miss conception that because I hate religion I must therefore want to ban it and that I hate religious people. I love people, I hate the system that is actively trying to hood wink people and preach lies, I don't hate the people who just happen to have been tricked from a young age, in many cases I feel sorry for them, they are victims.

Any way, I have reading to do, Bye.

Indeed they are victims, especially the ones who are afraid of being called apostates and killed if they renounce their religion.

I was sent to Sunday school, but when I decided that I didn't want to go any more the priest didn't come around saying that I was an infidel and could be killed.

That is the current difference between Christianity and Islam. Fear.

 

[noco]

Ahhh noco.... where to start?

I am also sure that google will provide answers your questions. eg see

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-23/why-do-muslim-women-wear-a-burka-niqab-or-hijab/5761510

but why does any one group of people live near each other in a foreign country? maybe, if they need help understanding the local customs they can ask people in their native language, because they have troubles with the new language. maybe they cannot afford a house on the northern shores?

one (or a few) bad apple(s) should not spoil the bunch?

I know the answers to my own questions....I want to know how naive people there just don't know...I was hoping to get some sensible conversation on this contentious matter.

If these immigrants had just half a brain they should get off their lazy asses and learn to speak English.....If they don't, how do they expect to get employed......Oh of course....they don't need to get work why the Government sends them welfare cheques every 2 weeks paid for by the Australian tax payers.

 

[noco]

There are like 1.5 billion Muslims in the world noco, are you saying they're all Jihadists?

Where did I say they are all Jihadists......Stop romancing with yourself and think more positive...
That was stupid statement to make.

 

[noco]

And you know that how?

Maybe they pray to their God to for good health, to keep their family safe from... all the love in the world.

Gotta give it to the warmongers... they know how to do their jobs right.

I understand it is printed in black and white in the Koran.

 

[noco]

The reason is to maintain dedicated slaves to the religion.

Basically all religions are the same, rule by fear and un-questioning obedience.

Can anyone tell me why people pray?.....What do they pray for and are their prayers ever answered?

I was once a Christian but after having to mix with so many hypocrites I decided it was not for me......I became agnostic......I abide by the laws of the land ....I treat my family and friends with respect and stay out of trouble so why do I need to get down on my knees and pray every day....Pray for what?...Praying does not bring one health and happiness.....Your life is what you make it yourself and I don't need any other to put fear in my head from some religious fanatics.

My ex wife was a Catholic who converted to Jehovah Witness...the marriage lasted 5 years because I would not convert....She took my 3 year old son with her who eventually left the religion and came back to live with me when he was 14 years of age....He was a brain washed nervous wreck and it took me some 6 months to cleanse his brain of the fear of God that had been instilled him.

Religions are the main problem causing so much strife around the world.

 

[luutzu]

I understand it is printed in black and white in the Koran.

Why not give us a sampling. And while you're at it, give us some samples of what's in the Bible and the Old Testament on similar call for Holy Wars and what to do with nonbelievers.

Don't know why the Left are being accused of "idealism" and head in the sand while they're the only ones who's saying anything about the BS we're being fed so that perpetual wars can go on.

 

[SirRumpole]

Can anyone tell me why people pray?.....

Fear of eternal damnation and hope for a place in heaven.

Religions are the main problem causing so much strife around the world.

Amen to that brother.

 

[noco]

Fear of eternal damnation and hope for a place in heaven.



Amen to that brother.

There is no heaven.....When you die you either get buried 6 feet under and there you stay until you rot or you get incinerated and your ashes are placed in a little box in the grounds of the Crematorium.

I do not believe in life after death .....That is some old Grannies tale.

 

[CanOz]

Religions are the main problem causing so much strife around the world.

Amen....

Seriously, something like 80% of all regional conflicts are now either religious or tribal.

 

[noco]

Why not give us a sampling. And while you're at it, give us some samples of what's in the Bible and the Old Testament on similar call for Holy Wars and what to do with nonbelievers.

Don't know why the Left are being accused of "idealism" and head in the sand while they're the only ones who's saying anything about the BS we're being fed so that perpetual wars can go on.

Here you go Luutzu...All you need to know about the Koran and the hatred they preach about non-Muslims.

It states "Kill them with your bear hands if you have to".

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/quran-hate.aspx

There are at least two places in the Quran where the violent death of non-Muslims is referred to as Allah's reward for unbelief (2:191, 9:26), as in "such is the reward for unbelievers." Verse 3:56, bluntly states that "those who reject faith" will be "punished with terrible agony in this world" (a vow that Muhammad and his companions personally took it upon themselves to fulfill).

The Quran tells Muslims thate Quran tells Muslims that Allah uses them to violently punish others:
Fight them, them by your hands and bring them to disgrace... (9:14)
Verse 4:102 says Allah has prepared a humiliating torment for the disbelievers. Narrations from Muhammad's life show little distinction between punishment from Allah violence from at the hands of faithful Muslims.

Allah could slay unbelievers himself, but he makes it a test for Muslims to prove their faith:
"If it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, by means of others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost" 47:4)
One of the most violent chapters in the Quran charters Muhammad and his followers with making Islam "superior over all religions" (9:33).

 

[luutzu]

Here you go Luutzu...All you need to know about the Koran and the hatred they preach about non-Muslims.

It states "Kill them with your bear hands if you have to".

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/quran-hate.aspx

There are at least two places in the Quran where the violent death of non-Muslims is referred to as Allah's reward for unbelief (2:191, 9:26), as in "such is the reward for unbelievers." Verse 3:56, bluntly states that "those who reject faith" will be "punished with terrible agony in this world" (a vow that Muhammad and his companions personally took it upon themselves to fulfill).

The Quran tells Muslims thate Quran tells Muslims that Allah uses them to violently punish others:
Fight them, them by your hands and bring them to disgrace... (9:14)
Verse 4:102 says Allah has prepared a humiliating torment for the disbelievers. Narrations from Muhammad's life show little distinction between punishment from Allah violence from at the hands of faithful Muslims.

Allah could slay unbelievers himself, but he makes it a test for Muslims to prove their faith:
"If it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, by means of others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost" 47:4)
One of the most violent chapters in the Quran charters Muhammad and his followers with making Islam "superior over all religions" (9:33).

Deuteronomy 17:
2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.


Luke 19:27:
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

As well as Matthew 10:34:
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

https://www.quora.com/Does-Christianity-ever-advocate-or-condone-killing-non-believers

 

[SirRumpole]

Deuteronomy 17:
2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.


Luke 19:27:
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

As well as Matthew 10:34:
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

https://www.quora.com/Does-Christianity-ever-advocate-or-condone-killing-non-believers

I don't think people are saying that one religion is better than another, but that all religion has parts that are incompatible with today's democratic secular society.

You seem to be assuming that people are automatically Christian if they are not Muslim. Most people these days are agnostic or atheist, or couldn't be bothered defining themselves as either, so quoting slabs of the Bible really falls on deaf ears, we don't believe it either.

 

[Ves]

Here you go Luutzu...All you need to know about the Koran and the hatred they preach about non-Muslims.

It states "Kill them with your bear hands if you have to".

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/quran-hate.aspx

There are at least two places in the Quran where the violent death of non-Muslims is referred to as Allah's reward for unbelief (2:191, 9:26), as in "such is the reward for unbelievers." Verse 3:56, bluntly states that "those who reject faith" will be "punished with terrible agony in this world" (a vow that Muhammad and his companions personally took it upon themselves to fulfill).

The Quran tells Muslims thate Quran tells Muslims that Allah uses them to violently punish others:
Fight them, them by your hands and bring them to disgrace... (9:14)
Verse 4:102 says Allah has prepared a humiliating torment for the disbelievers. Narrations from Muhammad's life show little distinction between punishment from Allah violence from at the hands of faithful Muslims.

Allah could slay unbelievers himself, but he makes it a test for Muslims to prove their faith:
"If it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, by means of others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost" 47:4)
One of the most violent chapters in the Quran charters Muhammad and his followers with making Islam "superior over all religions" (9:33).

Are you deliberately taking these quotes out of context or have you just not read the adjacent verses?

 

[noco]

Are you deliberately taking these quotes out of context or have you just not read the adjacent verses?

I read the whole lot from start to finish and I suggest you do the same.

How can anyone take it out of context...It is there in black and white dozens of times.