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End of the China bull?

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notting said:
Here is the real map of China if you want to see a real map, not the fake one that everyone uses these days to placate them.

View attachment 90043

...
Have you forgotten how to click on a link?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/China_hidden_camps
Yeah but keep on blaming Western companies for doing business with China, that's where the fault really lies.
Click to expand...

The BBC is still a public/national broadcaster, the private ("mainstream") media... don't mention any of these. Not saying that it doesn't happen, saying that they figured it's not to their commercial interest to make it important.

That map of China is being way too simplistic. There's at least some 50+ states that's been "absorbed" so well it's missing. Read somewhere before that there's some 100+ ethnic minorities in China today.

So yea, China knows how to do empire building alright. Just that most in the world do not realise it seeing how they were properly colonised and impoverished since the mid-1800s to about four decades ago.

But, again, as brutal and as violent as the Chinese state is, the Chinese people are, on the whole, quite decent. Most people generally are.
 
luutzu said:
But, again, as brutal and as violent as the Chinese state is, the Chinese people are, on the whole, quite decent. Most people generally are.
Click to expand...

That's interesting Luu. I remember a friend of Mine's Car broke down. A Chinese middle aged Man came over and found my friends misfortune hilarious. I said to my friend that this Chinese Man's lack of empathy was a bit annoying. My friend recalled an incident in South East Asia where a Boat overturned and its occupants drowned all while a group of Chinese stood on the shoreline laughing. He reasoned Chinese have a weird sence of humour. I further reasoned, perhaps they are desensitistised to human suffering due to living under a brutal regime.
 
Darc Knight said:
That's interesting Luu. I remember a friend of Mine's Car broke down. A Chinese middle aged Man came over and found my friends misfortune hilarious. I said to my friend that this Chinese Man's lack of empathy was a bit annoying. My friend recalled an incident in South East Asia where a Boat overturned and its occupants drowned all while a group of Chinese stood on the shoreline laughing. He reasoned Chinese have a weird sence of humour. I further reasoned, perhaps they are desensitistised to human suffering due to living under a brutal regime.
Click to expand...

There's about 1.5Billion of them, there's going to be a fair number of pri[ks among that large a population.

Like people from all races and culture, for everyone of those you can find hundreds and thousands of just average ordinary decent human beings.

And for everyone of the "Chinese" bad deeds, you can find the same or similar perpetrated by members of other race and culture too.

I know I don't need to say these stuff, just you know... in case.
 
Shri Lanka has just fallen.
It's now in China's hands.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/29/sri...ent-as-one-killed-at-ex-ministers-office.html
They always do it with evil against humanity -
Mr. Rajapaksa, who was elected in 2005, presided over the last years of the war, when Sri Lanka became increasingly isolated by accusations of human rights abuses. Under him, Sri Lanka relied heavily on China for economic support, military equipment and political cover at the United Nations to block potential sanctions.

• During the 2015 Sri Lankan elections, large payments from the Chinese port construction fund flowed directly to campaign aides and activities for Mr. Rajapaksa, who had agreed to Chinese terms at every turn and was seen as an important ally in China’s efforts to tilt influence away from India in South Asia. The payments were confirmed by documents and cash checks detailed in a government investigation seen by The New York Times.

• Though Chinese officials and analysts have insisted that China’s interest in the Hambantota port is purely commercial, Sri Lankan officials said that from the start, the intelligence and strategic possibilities of the port’s location were part of the negotiations.

Here is another, map for you, of other couthries China has provided similar predatory loans to, to build ports whilst corrupting government officials (Note Melbourne)-

ports-945.png


Join the dots to see how China hopes to reunite these rogue states with the motherland.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/world/asia/china-sri-lanka-port.html
Brazil just elected a guy who is trying to fight back
Bolsonaro has warned of Chinese investors taking control of strategic natural resources in the mining and energy sectors.
"China isn't buying in Brazil, China is buying Brazil," he said in August. "Are you willing to leave Brazil in the hands of the Chinese?"
But it's probably too late, they are already too dependent. Experts say Bolsonaro may be forced to temper his more antagonistic impulses for the sake of economic interests.

 
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notting said:
Shri Lanka has just fallen.
It's now in China's hands.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/29/sri...ent-as-one-killed-at-ex-ministers-office.html
They always do it with evil against humanity -
Mr. Rajapaksa, who was elected in 2005, presided over the last years of the war, when Sri Lanka became increasingly isolated by accusations of human rights abuses. Under him, Sri Lanka relied heavily on China for economic support, military equipment and political cover at the United Nations to block potential sanctions.

• During the 2015 Sri Lankan elections, large payments from the Chinese port construction fund flowed directly to campaign aides and activities for Mr. Rajapaksa, who had agreed to Chinese terms at every turn and was seen as an important ally in China’s efforts to tilt influence away from India in South Asia. The payments were confirmed by documents and cash checks detailed in a government investigation seen by The New York Times.

• Though Chinese officials and analysts have insisted that China’s interest in the Hambantota port is purely commercial, Sri Lankan officials said that from the start, the intelligence and strategic possibilities of the port’s location were part of the negotiations.

Here is another, map for you, of other couthries China has provided similar predatory loans to, to build ports whilst corrupting government officials (Note Melbourne)-

ports-945.png


Join the dots to see how China hopes to reunite these rogue states with the motherland.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/world/asia/china-sri-lanka-port.html
Brazil just elected a guy who is trying to fight back
Bolsonaro has warned of Chinese investors taking control of strategic natural resources in the mining and energy sectors.
"China isn't buying in Brazil, China is buying Brazil," he said in August. "Are you willing to leave Brazil in the hands of the Chinese?"
But it's probably too late, they are already too dependent. Experts say Bolsonaro may be forced to temper his more antagonistic impulses for the sake of economic interests.
Click to expand...

The US should refocus its priorities else it will lose all its influence around the globe in a couple generation to China.

Paraphrasing Alfred McCoy, the US ought to be more strategic about which corner of the world it most prizes so that other (less influential) powers can occupy other spaces while it confronts a proper peer competitor without going completely nuclear.

Britain planned for it during WWII, forced into a strategic retreat after the war and completely settles for chief lieutenant after Eisenhower shoos it (and the French) back from the planned re-take of the Suez Canal.

If we look at all the hemispheric/regional US Commands... Africom, [MEcom :D], Indo-Pacific, NATO, South America... all those commands, except for the Indo-Pacific one, are all keeping the US and its allies quite occupied.

You can't fight any war on all fronts, in all region. The US and its Western allies are doing just that.
 
The mistakes the Chinese making are largely due to the fact the Chinese dictatorship class, themselves have been brainwashed since birth and will underestimate how easily it will be seen through this kind of vial Mao stuff.
https://www.change.org/p/minister-h...lightning_2primary_share_options_more.control
Also the untenable costs of China's new soft invasions as shown in the port map above are likely turn back on them just as it did on the British when they tried to run India.
 
notting said:
The mistakes the Chinese making are largely due to the fact the Chinese dictatorship class, themselves have been brainwashed since birth and will underestimate how easily it will be seen through this kind of vial Mao stuff.
https://www.change.org/p/minister-h...lightning_2primary_share_options_more.control
Also the untenable costs of China's new soft invasions as shown in the port map above are likely turn back on them just as it did on the British when they tried to run India.
Click to expand...

I don't follow China's politics closely so have noticed a few setbacks/mistakes they've made past few years. But they're quite quick to learn from it though.

There's that time they thought it's no biggie to anchor an offshore oil rig inside Vietnam's territorial waters. The Comrades in Hanoi let the plebs loose for a bit and they burnt down a few Chinese industrial parks, killing three Chinese nationals I think.

Beijing stationed its troops near Hanoi, things calm down real quick... But since then they've only ramp any and all puny VNese fishing boats found fishing in "Chinese waters", so less public outcry.


Those projects and debt might be all lost but they'd still be less than what the US is currently spending each year just to maintain the status quo.

I think the official figures is about $100B a year for some 1,000+ (known) bases around the world. The Pentagon/Defence budget is about $1Trillion a year.

So China could comfortably fund a few of its corporations, sending them to some far flung African or S/American country to do deals and the US/West will either have to send some presence over to keep an eye out or watch as the Chinese flip or prop up dictators and friendly pollies .

I heard that that's why the US is getting back down into South America in a real hurry lately.

Looking at the domestic infrastructures China's been building... it's incredible. Roads, bridges, rail linking the entire country. From zero to the world's longest high speed tracks and fleet in less than 10 years, soon to be the longest of all the world's combined.

With the new ($1 trillion?) Belt/Road infrastructure plan... the last time the East was linked with the Middle East and into Europe was Genghis Khan's. The last time the Chinese mapped the world's sea lanes on this scale was by Admiral Zheng He under order by a guy whose ambition was nothing less than global hegemony.

You'd think Western planners would be hard at work doing something serious about not losing this one... but for some reason they decided it's best to upset Russia, isolating it rather than bringing it in from the cold and keep China a bit busy at half of its frontiers.

Then getting itself into about 7 wars in the Middle East, spending loads of cash and plenty of military brainpower fighting idiots like ISIS, the Taliban, impoverished tribes in Yemen, Somalia pirates.... and not really winning it at that.

But I suppose giving $250M to ASEAN countries, or $25M a piece... that'll win the Asians over.

6 more years of Trump is going to see China getting to a point where S/E Asia will just have to be "lost", again... or have a couple proxy wars starting, giving S/Korea and Japan an excuse to militarise and have their own liberation from US control.
 
luutzu said:
Looking at the domestic infrastructures China's been building... it's incredible. Roads, bridges, rail linking the entire country. From zero to the world's longest high speed tracks and fleet in less than 10 years, soon to be the longest of all the world's combined.
Click to expand...
It's certainly incredibly large but it's not market driven. Most Chinese can't and probably will never be able to afford the tickets on the trains for instance. There massively under used. Either the government will go broke trying to save face by keeping them going or they will end up largely unused. The internal debt they have generated to build it is staggering!

US has been incredibly stupid in response to the terror attacks. They totally took the bait and lost Trillions that's true.

The other mistake the Chinese continually make is that they think they can win human domination with force and inhumanity. It's extremely short sighted and dumb. Mao didn't care. All he cared about was staying in power till he died.
The CCP acts like it was a template for success.

It might seem to work in small defenseless places like, East Turkistan and Tibet for a short time but even in those places they have not won the hearts of the people and still have to go to disproportionate lengths to maintain the status quo. It's an oxymoron to win over humanity with inhumanity. Really dumb.
They cant' see past their violent and bullying ways. Ultimately they can only fail.
However, Mr Hillman added that while these policies generate resentment, they were intended to create a climate of fear and send the message that fighting back was futile.

"There is no doubt in my mind that this type of treatment and the abuse of people's rights is going to foster resentment, and it is not going to make the Uighurs and other minorities in these camps more loyal," he said
Click to expand...

Remember that not even the Chinese in Hong Kong or Taiwan want to be ruled by the Chinese Communist party. That's how much of failure they truly are. In other words the Chinese don't want to be ruled by them!

It's our job to minimize the misery they inflict in the meantime.
Like this -
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10...ults-and-strengthens-war-on-religion/10390784
 
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notting said:
It's certainly incredibly large but it's not market driven. Most Chinese can't and probably will never be able to afford the tickets on the trains for instance. There massively under used. Either the government will go broke trying to save face by keeping them going or they will end up largely unused. The internal debt they have generated to build it is staggering!

US has been incredibly stupid in response to the terror attacks. They totally took the bait and lost Trillions that's true.

The other mistake the Chinese continually make is that they think they can win human domination with force and inhumanity. It's extremely short sighted and dumb. Mao didn't care. All he cared about was staying in power till he died.
The CCP acts like it was a template for success.

It might seem to work in small defenseless places like, East Turkistan and Tibet for a short time but even in those places they have not won the hearts of the people and still have to go to disproportionate lengths to maintain the status quo. It's an oxymoron to win over humanity with inhumanity. Really dumb.
They cant' see past their violent and bullying ways. Ultimately they can only fail.


Remember that not even the Chinese in Hong Kong or Taiwan want to be ruled by the Chinese Communist party. That's how much of failure they truly are. In other words the Chinese don't want to be ruled by them!

It's our job to minimize the misery they inflict in the meantime.
Like this -
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10...ults-and-strengthens-war-on-religion/10390784
Click to expand...

Personal preferences doesn't count for much when you're going to be dominated though. Unfortunately, politics follow that Bismarck maxim of "might makes right".

China is not going to let Taiwan go independent or entertain any American ship. They might go to war over it. It's not just the historical claims and national pride at work, it's part of their move to push the US back the heck away and out of the neighbourhood.

And so far, the US is a bit busy all over the place; close to being bankrupt if it's not careful. Heard, from McCoy, that the US Navy in the Pacific is so over-worked that two of its frigates [?] got into accidents during routine runs around the Pacific/S.China Seas.
-----------

I don't know the details of China's roads and infrastructure usage. But I reckon that although the toll is high and usage reserves to the wealthier lots... it could change quite rapidly the way the US inter-state highway and rail networks link the states soon after WWII. Leading to massive adoption of cars, urbanisation, efficiencies, rapid economic development etc.

But yea, China has the image problem - totalitarian, Communist, human rights abuses etc. But you could argue that since Iraq, the torture programs, droning everywhere, befriending dictators, overthrowing this and that regime, sanctioning everyone they don't like, excusing a highly publicised brutal murder 'cause there's money to be made, being outright racist, sending troops to stop refugees...

I mean politics have always been cruel, just that you got to pretty it up with nice speeches and big smiles and stuff. Being naked isn't pretty.
 
luutzu said:
Iraq, the torture programs, droning everywhere, befriending dictators, overthrowing this and that regime, sanctioning everyone they don't like, excusing a highly publicised brutal murder 'cause there's money to be made
Click to expand...

Classic Chomsky false equivalencies. These are reactions to far greater evils like Putin's agony gassing in Syria. Which would be everywhere if it wasn't for the west clumsily doing what it can to limit the tyrants.

Pathetic.

Put your money where your mouth is. Make your children Muslims and go live in East Turkistan.
Why wouldn't you?
What are you doing here?
Go back to what you bat for.
 
notting said:
Classic Chomsky false equivalencies. These are reactions to far greater evils like Putin's a Syria.
Pathetic.
Click to expand...

Chomsky is not a philosopher and does not hold an ideology. I know because I've listened and watched his work quite extensively. He's a historian and scholar, first and foremost. It's a shame that not enough people study his work, it's the best, most objective study of modern history.

As to false equivalencies... An evil deed is evil, regardless of who does it, which side they're on. Putin's handyworks in Syria is no more or less vile than the Americans, the Israelis, the Saudis, the Chinese...

Those who excuse Soviet invasion of, say, Afghanistan is no different to those who excuse the Alliance; same as those mandarins who excuse Chinese taking Tibet etc. etc. They're all the same, just serve a different master.
 
I just told you to go live in your equivelent evil
So FO

Make sure you take your dog to you sub human C

 
luutzu said:
Chomsky is not a philosopher and does not hold an ideology. I know because I've listened and watched his work quite extensively. He's a historian and scholar, first and foremost. It's a shame that not enough people study his work, it's the best, most objective study of modern history.

As to false equivalencies... An evil deed is evil, regardless of who does it, which side they're on. Putin's handyworks in Syria is no more or less vile than the Americans, the Israelis, the Saudis, the Chinese...

Those who excuse Soviet invasion of, say, Afghanistan is no different to those who excuse the Alliance; same as those mandarins who excuse Chinese taking Tibet etc. etc. They're all the same, just serve a different master.
Click to expand...
Well put Iuutzu.

Just for a start the yanks via the crooks they arm have been getting into Syria for 40 years, for the oil of course. Saddam Hussein fell for the same, was starting to pipe his oil north to Russia. Don't start me on Afghanistan, Vietnam et. al

Of course the Seppo's have God, so stand back and have a drink when the games begin. Party for our funerals all round, bejeezuuzz
 
China's Huawei and ZTE were banned from providing 5G technology equipment to Australia in August.

Australia's government said at the time that it could not involve firms that were "subject to extrajudicial directions from a foreign government that conflict with Australian law" in its national 5G rollout.

Chinese smartphone manufacturers such as Huawei and ZTE are subject to legislation that requires citizens and businesses to cooperate with Chinese intelligence authorities.

China throws a tantrum, for they see no reason why Australian's wouldn't want to live under their rule.
Just look at how they treat the countries they have invaded and occupy so far -
Unless your a corruptible Han psychopath who is willing to shoot your own parents for a dollar, your of no use to the Chinese so it's Off to the concentration camp where the Chinese work you to death, harvest your organs for a communist party member or just torture you to death for fun -
upload_2018-10-31_6-56-24.png


 
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World war 1 ended today
World war 3 is well and truly in play.
Most people are to stupid to realize it -
https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/b...-used-australian-insider-20181031-p50d2e.html

I was so happy to see this video. Not because of the awful reality but because at least they are on to it!!
It was odd that someone with the public persona of Banon would say it but he is spot on -


The south China Sea is another decoy in an attempt to weaken and distract the US on the way to China.
 

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