End of the China bull?

[notting]

Mihrigul Tursun, a 29 year-old Uygur woman, tells of her experience in one of Chinas concentration camps.

Tursun was arrested for the first time when she arrived at Urumqi airport from Egypt with her 2-month-old triplets in 2015. Her babies were taken away from her.

Months later, she was released on “parole” because her three babies were in critical condition in a hospital. The eldest one died the next day.

During her second detention, in 2017, she was interrogated for four days and four nights without any sleep.

During her third detention, in 2018, she witnessed nine deaths of fellow inmates within nine months. She was tortured so badly that she begged the guards to kill her.

She was eventually released so that she could take her children to Egypt, but she was ordered to return to China.

Tursun struggled very hard between a desire to speak out about her experiences, and a guilty feeling that if she didn’t go back to China, her family there could be arrested and tortured.

I really don't understand why the world does nothing about what is Nazi Germany 2018 - CHINA
The less we do the greater the chance that this is what will be happening to Australians in a decade or two's time.
At least tell everyone you reasonably can. It's upsetting but silence leads to a hell of a lot worse than staring this down

https://www.theepochtimes.com/globa...g-end-mass-internment-of-uyghurs_2725889.html

 

[CanOz]

A Great Shift Unseen Over the Last Forty Years

China Change
1 week ago


Xiang Songzuo, December 28, 2018

On Dec. 16, Prof. Xiang Songzuo (向松祚) of Renmin University School of Finance and former chief economist of China Agriculture Bank, gave a 25-minute speech during a CEO class at Renmin Business School that was apparently applauded by the audience but immediately censored over the Chinese internet. Singling out 2018 as the year when China comes to a large shift unprecedented over the past 40 years, the speech can be seen as a landscape survey of Chinese economy, and obliquely, also of politics. Just as Tsinghua law professor Xu Zhangrun’s (许章润) broadside “Imminent Fears, Immediate Hopes”, which was superbly translatedand widely talked about among China watchers, Prof. Xiang’s speech is another rare burst of Chinese intellectuals’ discontent with the direction the country is taking under Xi Jinping. With this unauthorized translation of the speech, China Change wishes our readers a happy New Year! — The Editors

I want to share two characters with my fellow alumni here. I hope that everyone present, every entrepreneur here, can reflect together with me. These two characters are fan si (反思, reflect). What do we reflect on?

China’s economy has been going downward this year, as everyone knows. The year 2018 is an extraordinary year for us, with so many things taking place. But the main thing is the economic slowdown.

How bad are things? The number that China’s National Bureau of Statistics (NBS) gives is 6.5 percent, but just yesterday, a research group of an important institution released an internal report. Can you take a guess on the GDP growth rate that they came up with using the NBS data?

They used two measurements. Going by the first estimate, China’s GDP growth this year was about 1.67 percent. And according to the other calculation, the growth rate was negative.

Of course, my main point here is not about the accuracy of these calculations, or which one is more credible. But this year, there have been three issues regarding China that we either failed to consider, or about which we have made serious misjudgments.

First, the trade war between China and the U.S.. Did we make some inaccurate assessment? Did we underestimate the severity of the situation? Let’s recall some slogans from the mainstream media at the beginning of the year: “In the trade war between U.S. and China, the Americans are lifting rocks only to smash them on their own feet, China is sure to win.” “China will win the trade war without a doubt, be the battles big or small.”

What’s behind this kind of thinking? To this day, we keep suffering from a cognitive dissonance between our understanding of the Sino-U.S. trade war and the international reality. This calls for deep reflection.

Second, what was the cause for the economic downturn? Why did private enterprises suffer setbacks in 2018? Looking at the data, investment by private businesses has dropped substantially, so what made private business owners lose confidence? On November 1, the national leaders convened a high-profile economic conference, which some interpreted as a signal that the government wants to win back the confidence of private businesses as the economy worsens.

Since the beginning of the year, though, all kinds of ideological statements have been thrown around: statements like “private property will be eliminated,” “private ownership will eventually be abolished if not now,” “it’s time for the private enterprises to fade away,” or “all private companies should be turned over to their workers.” Then there was this high-profile study of Marx and the Communist Manifesto. Remember that line in the Communist Manifesto? Abolition of private property. What kind of signal do you think this sends to private entrepreneurs?

This is why we need to reflect on China’s economic downturn, the pressure on Chinese economy, and the trade war between the U.S. and China that is escalating with every passing day. We need to reflect on what we did wrong, on how to revive the economy as we walk into the future, and what steps we should take to ensure that China’s economy maintains its steady rate of growth.

You might not agree with what I say, and please feel free to give your opinions. But I hope that you can think in a sober manner after we finish today’s seminar. Why do I say this? Because the problems that we face are our own doing, and there are a lot of them. But many of them have been addressed in superficial terms only.

At the symposium on the private sector, General Secretary Xi Jinping talked about six issues. Among them I am most concerned about the sixth: the protection of personal safety and property. Think about it. In a country with robust rule of law, where everyone is equal before the law, shouldn’t these basic rights be properly guaranteed for everyone, entrepreneurs and commoners alike?

It has been four decades since the reform and opening up, yet the General Secretary still feels a need to specifically promote entrepreneurs’ rights to personal safety and the security of their property. This reflects the gravity of the issues facing the governance of Chinese society and state. In my view, China’s economy will face six internal challenges that deserve our serious consideration. Due to time constraints, I won’t be able to get through all of them.

In addition to this, there are three major external challenges. The first is the trade war, which is in fact no longer a trade war but rather a clash between two opposed value systems. It can be said with certainty that the Sino-U.S. relationship has come to a crossroads right now and faces significant historic challenges. What are we to do? To be honest, I don’t think we have really found much of a solution.

You are aware that Huawei’s CFO Meng Wanzhou was recently detained in Vancouver. In the past two days, mainstream media such as BBC and CNN have been reporting on how the U.S. is going at Huawei on all fronts. What this tells us is that this issue is not simply about trade or economics.

We used to speak of “China’s period of strategic opportunity for economic growth.” Does this period of strategic opportunity still exist? Personally, looking at the international situation, I think this period of strategic opportunity is fading quick.

Let’s think about what “international period of strategic opportunity” means. It means that in the past, international regulations have been favorable to us; we had open access to technology, capital, talent, and markets. Because of the imminent changes we face on the domestic and international fronts, I have titled today’s speech “the great shift unseen over the last forty years.” (四十年未有之大变局)

Have we really given the problems due consideration? Of course the short-term problem we are looking at is economic decline; the preponderance of data demonstrating this point needs no introduction here. Data concerning performance in November hasn’t been released, but you can extrapolate based on the October figures: there’s been a decline across virtually all sectors, from consumption in retail, autos, or real estate. Just look at China’s exports. Who can say that the trade war didn’t impact China and that China is sure to win the war no matter how big it is? Why don’t the people who were saying this kind of thing in April and May stand by their words now?

Why did we made such mistakes in assessing the international circumstances?

Look at these numbers. That China faces a long-term economic downturn is not a problem by itself. But you may have noticed that the consumption and the service sectors now make up 78.5 percent of GDP. Going by the government’s logic, this should be a good thing, since it means the economic transition to a consumption economy has been successful: we used to rely on investment and export, now we rely on consumption and the service sector. This sounds reasonable, but think about it: in a country like China, as investment slows dramatically, how can we maintain economic stability by solely relying on consumption?

The fact that consumption and services comprise 78.5 percent of GDP may be good news to some extent, but is far eclipsed by the negative implications. Take a look at investment. More importantly, can consumption alone support faster economic growth?

In the four decades following the economic reform, we have undergone five phases of consumption. The first was to solve the food problem, the second was the “New Big Three” [新三大件, short for refrigerator, color TV, and washing machine], the third was the consumption of information, the fourth was automobiles, and fifth was real estate.

But these five waves have essentially all come to an end. Car sales have dropped sharply and real estate spending is also substantially decreasing, so we are facing serious problems. This is the crux of the six stabilities called for by the Politburo [stable employment, stable finance, stable foreign trade, stable foreign investment, stable investment and stable expectations], or as some internet users have joked, the six “tender kisses” [吻, kiss, is a homophone for 稳, stability].

Now, let me give you three more “kisses”: stable reserves, stable exchange rates, and stable housing prices.

It should be fairly obvious that these stabilities are difficult to achieve. For now it looks that “stable foreign investment” and “stable foreign exchange rates” shouldn’t be a problem. Foreign investment is basically stable. But how can you stabilize investment, exports, real estate market, and employment? The reason that I want to share the word “reflect” with everyone today is that we need to reflect on why this happened, and on how to find an appropriate solution.

As economy slows, financial risk escalates and shadow banking shrinks rapidly. Some say that the president of China’s central bank has come out to apologize, saying that their prior policy was not well thought out, lacked coordination, and wasn’t properly implemented, that these, coupled with the effects of overbearing regulations, caused credit to recede. This is certainly an important reason, but it’s not the fundamental issue.

We can see that the direct financing market, whether the bonds or stock market, has been cut in half in 2018 and that many companies have defaulted. Total debt due to default has exceeded 100 billion RMB ($14.5 billion) for the first three quarters.

According to data provided by the government, the corporate debt default could exceed 120 billion RMB, and many businesses have gone bankrupt. As Cao Dewang (曹德旺) put it, companies are collapsing in droves; not even state-owned enterprises are spared this phenomenon. Bohai Steel, once listed in the Fortune Global 500, was 192 billion RMB in debt when it bankrupted; the real number could be as high as 280 billion RMB.

Local debt is a big problem in China’s financial market. As for the actual number, the National Audit Office claims it to be about 17.8 trillion RMB, while He Keng (贺铿), vice director of National People’s Congress Financial and Economic Affairs Committee, thinks it’s over 40 trillion RMB. Worse yet, not one local government intends to pay back its debts.

So this is the larger context. Then there’s also the stock market crash. My friend Mr. Jin Yanshi (金岩石) will share with you shortly his thoughts about an impending stock market rebound, but in my opinion, it’s far from forthcoming. You can look at the history: only the Wall Street Crash of 1929 can compare to the steep decline that the Chinese stock has experienced this year. Many stocks are down 80 or even 90 percent.

So here’s a problem that we need to think about today: we know China’s stock market is feeling the pain, but what exactly is hurting?

Some people blame the securities regulators, Chairman Liu (刘主席), or this and that, but I think they are going after the wrong people. The problem lies in regulatory policy, which I fear may be lacking. The absence of comprehensive stock regulation might be an important issue, but it’s not the crucial one.

Look at our profit structure. To put it plainly, China’s listed companies don’t really make money. Then who has taken the few profits made by China’s more than 3,000 listed companies? Two-thirds have been taken by the banking sector and real estate. The profits earned by 1,444 listed companies on the SME board and growth enterprise board are not even equal to one and half times the profit of the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China. How can this kind of stock market become a bull market?

When we buy stocks, we are buying the profits of the company, not hype and rumors. I recently read a report comparing the profits of China’s listed companies with those in the U.S. There are many U.S. public companies with tens of billions dollars in profits. How many Chinese tech and manufacturing companies are there that have accomplished this? There is only one, but it’s not listed, and you all know which one that is. [Xiang is referring to Huawei, the Chinese tech company.] What does this tell us? As Yale professor Robert Shiller said: stock market performance may not work as a barometer of the economy in the short run, but it does for sure in the long run.

So I think that the terrible stock performance only demonstrates one thing, which is that the real economy in China is in quite a mess. Where is the stock market rebound? I think it’s obvious that investor confidence has yet to recover.

A number of policies came out on October 19 and 20, and Vice Premier Liu He (刘鹤) personally gave a speech to pledge results, but what of it now? The SSE Index fell to 2600 points by last Friday, and just stayed there, barely alive. When is the market rebound coming? Real estate is not showing much cause for optimism right now, but I won’t go into details for lack of time. You can take a picture of the data for your reference.

That’s why China wants to fight the three tough battles. China’s economic decline indicates that there is a major issue with the focus on expansion and growth: It has deviated from the fundamental and moved to speculation. These are the words of former chief of China’s central bank, Zhou Xiaochuan (周小川).

What are our current financial risks? They are hidden, complex, acute, contagious, and malevolent. Structural imbalance are massive, and violations of law and regulations are rampant. There are black swans to prevent, and gray rhinos to stop. A reporter once asked Zhou, “Where are the black swans? Which ones?” Zhou smiled and did not answer.

The black swans are right next to you. The P2P lending, blockchain, Coin Circle, aren’t all these black swans? But you can’t see them. As for the gray rhinos, they can charge at any time. The biggest of them is real estate.

We have rampant speculations everywhere, in too many aspects. In short, it’s arbitrage.

During the national finance work conference last year, the General Secretary and the Premier strongly criticized the Chinese financial sector with a pile of literary-sounding polemics, saying that they were entertaining themselves without the slightest consideration for reality, and that the financial sector was in chaos and was a horrible sight to behold.

Apart from this financial arbitrage, what do most businesses do with their money? Forty percent of it goes to the stock market, speculation, and buying stocks of financial companies, but not investment into primary business. Then can this be considered a good situation for listed businesses? You can say goodbye to the equity pledges, game over. As an economist, I am opposed to the government bailing out the market. If stock pledges collapse, let it be: what’s the point in bailing them out? What are you doing using stock pledges for other purposes anyway? What did you do with the loans you get from stock pledges?

I’m acquainted with many bosses of listed companies. Frankly speaking, a large part of their equity pledge funds did not go into their primary business, but used on speculation. They have many tricks. They buy financial products; they buy housing. The government said listed companies have spent 1-2 trillions on speculative real estate. Basically China’s economy is all built on speculation, and everything is over leveraged.

Starting in 2009, China embarked on this path of no return. The leverage ratio has soared sharply. Our current leverage ratio is three times that of the United States and twice that of Japan. The debt ratio of non-financial companies is the highest in the world, not to mention real estate.

Having shared all this data with you, shouldn’t we be arriving at a conclusion now?

“The swallows come back every three years.” [This is a reference to the three years of RMB growth between 2005 and 2008.] Now they are back again. The economic decline has created a lot of pressure, so now the government brings back its old set of tricks: relaxed currency regulations, aggressive monetary policies, relaxed financial policies, and aggressive capital financing policy.

But now I want to ask a question. Everyone in the audience is an alumnae of Renda business school and capable of thinking independently, so give it some thought: Will these policies work? Can they solve China’s fundamental problems? It’s not that our currency regulation this year was not relaxed enough—we released 400 billion yuan in liquidity, 2.3 trillion yuan in hedging or medium-term lending facilities. 2.3 trillion times the money multiplier is about a dozen or so trillion.

Three monetary policy “arrows” have been fired, also known as “Bank Chief Yi’s three arrows.” The first is loans, the second is issuing debts, the third is to solve the problem of stock pledges. Even more mind-blowing was the “125 Target.” [Guo Shuqing (郭树清), CCP committee secretary of the People’s Bank of China and chairman of the China Banking and Insurance Regulatory Commission, said in November that banks’ lending to private companies need to meet the “125 Target,” which means that in new corporate loans, the big banks should issue no less than one-third of the loans to private firms, medium and small banks should issue no less than two-third of the loans to private firms, and in three years the goal is for banks to lend no less than 50 percent of its loans to private enterprises among their loans to new companies.]

We recently went to the Pearl River Delta and some other regions to conduct field research, and locals told us that the local officials invited the bank chiefs over to meetings and told them which banks to turn to for loans. What is this nonsense?

So we need to reflect on our current problems: can these policies of ours solve the deeper issues?

As for the debt-for-equity swap, the capital market has issued many policies but I don’t see any of them will really be useful. It’s been another two months since October 19, have they been effective? So we have to ask ourselves: What has really gone wrong with our economy?

My own reflection has reached its conclusion: The problem with the Chinese economy is no longer speed or quantity, but quality.

The official report of the 19th Party Congress is an excellent report. So is the report of the Third Plenum of the 18th Party Congress. All of these major decisions were beautifully written and made all the right points. Sadly, they have not been followed through. The structural problems we face as a country, the “Six Big Imbalances,” are not sufficiently addressed. Think about it, entrepreneurs and alumni of Renda business school in the audience, can any radical credit policy or monetary easing solve these problems?

Moreover, these credit and monetary policies can only make short-term adjustments that are incapable of fundamentally solving the “imbalances” I mentioned earlier. We are still trapped within the box of the old policy and the old way of thinking. The key to whether transformation will be successful is the vitality of private enterprises—that is, whether policy can stimulate corporate innovation.

We have been making a game of credit and monetary tools for so many years. Isn’t this the reason we are saddled with so many troubles today? Speculation has driven housing prices sky-high.

The problems that private business actually faces are not difficulties in financing. What is it then? They are afraid of unstable policy and the government not keeping its word.

The leader of the State Council said it clearly in a meeting of the Standing Committee: in China, the government is what can be least trusted. Therefore, in order to solve the debt problem, first, the government has to pay back debts it owes businesses, the state-owned enterprises have to pay back debts they owe private enterprises, and large private enterprises have to pay back debts they owe smaller ones. The three costs keep going up [production cost, transnational cost, and systematic cost], therefore tax cut and fee reduction is the primary appeal.

My basic assessment of the overall issue is that these short-term monetary credit schemes are wholly incapable of solving the problem. For the Chinese economy to continue growing in a truly stable fashion, and extricate itself from its present quagmire, it must implement the following three essential reforms: tax system, reform in the political structure, and reform in state governance.

How to reduce taxes and fees? The structure of the government must be streamlined by cutting large numbers of staff. Personnel must be let go and expenditures have to drop, which means that structural reforms have to be carried out.

Professor Zhou Qiren (周其仁) of Peking University is someone I respect and admire deeply. All these years, he has been saying: what is China’s biggest problem? The costs of societal administration are too high.

Then there are the matters of governmental reform and reforms in the structure of state governance. Of course, there’s also reform of academia and research.

I hear that the day after tomorrow, there’s going to be a grand conference to mark the 40th anniversary of the “reform and opening up.” I sincerely hope that we’ll hear something about further deepening of reforms at that conference. Let’s wait and see if any real progress can be made on these reforms.

If this doesn’t happen, let me conclude on these words: the Chinese economy is going to be in for long-term and very difficult times.


More information about Prof. Xiang Songzuo can be found here.

 

[notting]

 

[notting]

China's belt and road 'vision' is a failure

 

[daytradeprofit]

China's belt and road 'vision' is a failure

https://www.daytrade-profit.com/2019/02/is-it-buy-rumor-and-sell-facts.html

 

[Ann]

I have been watching the Shanghai Composite for years. I held an investment called China Growth Fund. I had no intention of selling it ever. I bought it when it was floated from a friend who was a chartist and an agent for AMP called Peter. In 2017 it was closed off because of a big investor who voted to get it closed down. Bastard!
Anyway I still keep an eye on it and saw that it was on the rise. I have just started looking at volumes and the EquiVolume chart and I looked at the SSEC EV. Well that was a site to see. I thought the chart had broken until I looked closer. Wednesday February 21 2018 saw a purchase of 1.44 billion shares at around 3200 yuan. That is the kind of money that could keep this index below 3200 forever or it could sell the index up to infinity for a very long time.

This is what the EquiVolume chart looks like, it looks very broken, it is not! Look at the date on the bottom of the chart....

 

[notting]

I have been watching the Shanghai Composite for years. I held an investment called China Growth Fund. I had no intention of selling it ever. I bought it when it was floated from a friend who was a chartist and an agent for AMP called Peter. In 2017 it was closed off because of a big investor who voted to get it closed down. Bastard!
View attachment 92536

That thing traded for ages higher than book value and it was right to take the difference. They should have done it earlier. It was managed appallingly ~ at AMP standards that is.

 

[Ann]

That thing traded for ages higher than book value and it was right to take the difference. They should have done it earlier. It was managed appallingly ~ at AMP standards that is.

I wouldn't argue with you notting but I bought into it at the float, so there was no history and I wanted to hold an A-shares China fund. I didn't do too badly, not great but not burned either. It would have been a nice little ride up recently if it hadn't been closed as it followed the SSEC. I have a great faith in China and its growth potential and want to have a permanent Index holding . There was really nothing else to choose from at the time or even recently until now with CNEW but I think there may be some weakness with a potential buying op coming up for CNEW. May be wrong of course.

 

[rederob]

This thread was started over 10 years ago.
A lot of people have gravely miscalculated China.
I take my 5th visit to China in 12 years in August.
I agree there are many things that happen in China that are unsavoury, but here we are with our first peoples amongst the unhealthiest in the world.
I would much rather be a minority group in China than an indigenous Australian.

 

[notting]

This is a classic debate that show how naive and stupid the arm chair economists, intellectuals and talking heads are about China.
They are talking down to a bloke who actually knows what is going on because he deals with the c)nts
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/05/...ate-china-trade-with-a-wharton-professor.html

 

[rederob]

This is a classic debate that show how naive and stupid the arm chair economists, intellectuals and talking heads are about China.
They are talking down to a bloke who actually knows what is going on because he deals with the c)nts
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/05/...ate-china-trade-with-a-wharton-professor.html

China continues at a GDP pace well ahead of most of the world.
The USA has no competitive advantage, and continues to isolate itself from the rest of the world. It is doing its best to lose friends and influence.
Not sure what armchair economists you are talking about, so maybe you have missed the last 30 years of China's remarkable development.

 

[notting]

Of course the Chinese don't understand they are slaves to their rulers with all the propaganda they are force fed as soon as they can understand Mandarin.
They haven't heard a thing about how they were slain with machine guns by their dictators The CCP in Tienanmen Square and run over by tanks.

Then round up and shot along with their families

Intellectuals tortured and ridiculed in the streets, just for being able to think.
If the crowds they were paraded infront of did not hit them or abuse them enough they'd be next.

The Chinese even make sport evil - Getting her legs ready for the Olympics just one in thoughsands of children brutalised for Communist thug pride -

Nor do they show you how the Chinese economy really progesses on the back of Chinese and invaded countries slave labor camps -

The real map of China not the fake one that they show you-

Here's to China's progress -

 

[rederob]

Of course the Chinese don't understand they are slaves to their rulers with all the propaganda they are force fed as soon as they can understand Mandarin.

If people want history lessons they can do better than read your crap.

 

[notting]

Even a person with half a brain can figure out via inference the true history.

Lets take Hong Kong for example - Full of Chinese.

You'd imagine they would be delighted to be incorporated back into the fold of mainland China if there was something true or good about 'China,' for them.
NOPE.
They utterly reject the lie of The Chinese Communist Parties history now being fed to them by the pig thug dictatorship that has brainwashed all the mainlanders who know no better from birth. The Hong Kong Chinese hate the 'mainland dogs.' The Hong Kong Chinese can't stand what is now being imposed on them.
The Hong Kong Chinese are resisting the Chinese Communist Parties self serving lies about history.
Why?
The Hong Kong Chinese weren't subjected to the The Chinese Communist Parties propaganda because they were protected by the Brits and had access to international news and free press. So they naturally SEE THROUGH the Chinese Communist Parties lies about it's appalling history of inhumane brutality and economic blundering and plundering of China and the Chinese over whom the rule.

Now these Hong Kong Chinese are free of British rule but they do not want to be ruled by the lying Chinese Communist Party thugs. Fancy that!!!
They'd rather the British system remained.

The Hong Kong Chinese are naturally protesting, largely in vein, about the propaganda now being imposed on them in their schools and everywhere else.
These courageous Hong Kong Chinese who have the courage to resist The Chinese Communist Party fake history and blatant lies call themselves the yellow umbrella movement. When you have no free speech you know you are being lied to. All you have ever had access to is the Chinese Communist Parties dictation of lies. It's that simple.

Oh yes about a dozen of these Hong Kong Chinese yellow umbrella leaders have just been jailed by The Communist Chinese Party thugs in an ongoing attempt to shut them up and bury the truth and the real HISTORY to hide their ongoing lies and crimes against the Chinese people.

Taiwan? - SAME!!

The last thing Taiwan Chinese want is the rule of Chinese Communist Party telling them what progress is.
Oh and both Hong Kong and the Taiwan Chinese economies have been far richer per capita than the mainland is now and has been historically as the Chinese Communist Party caused the unbearable suffering and horrors of famines, poverty, starvation and even culls of the Chinese citizens enslaved by the Chinese Communist Parties dictatorship and propaganda.

The so called miracle of the Chinese being raised out of poverty, on the mainland, is nothing other than the Chinese Communist Party cleaning up some of the mess they created!!! The Chinese people, whom they dictated over, would never have been poor in the first place if it wasn't for the Chinese Communist Party. That's not out pacing the rest of the world at all, far from it.
There is still more mainland Chinese living in poverty than not, because of the Chinese Communist Parties horrendous self serving thuggery and blundering monstrous history.

Taiwan and Hong Kong did not suffer that because they were not dictated to by the Thug Pig Chinese Communist Party.
HISTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rederob]

Even a person with half a brain can figure out via inference the true history.

They would be better off reading it for themselves than from you.
I could selectively write about how the USA has, and continues to screw over nations that are not democracies, Cuba being one at its doorstep. Or how the USA intervened in Iraq via a false WMD claim, and turned that country into a political, religious and economic basket case. Or how its sabre rattling overnight led to the partial evacuation of the US embassy in Iraq.
And when it comes to persecutions for true history, the USA's relentless pursuit of Julian Assange and other whistleblowers speaks volumes for how they deal with those who expose their grubby underbelly.

 

[notting]

United States allows for free speech, freedom of the press and pretty much everything politcal.
Anyone can run for president and shake the place up if THE PEOPLE want it enough, even Donald Trump.
The difference is immeasurable.
Australian, New Zealand and over a hundred other democracies are even better.
Asange was nothing more than an attention seeking brat willing to sell out anyone or anything for attention. He tried to pose a bastion of transparency which was total BS.
He became a Russian pawn.
Hacking is illegal and should be punished according to the laws, so is rape a crime, which is an accusation not being made the the US. Assange will be tried according to the laws in two different countries.
Asange put himself in self imposed exile to avoid a trial. That is what a guilty feeling bloke does!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is no rule of law in China. The trials are a farce and over 99% get convicted. That's not a trial!

Simple example-




Note the inclement unquestioned even promoted racism of the everyday brainwashed Chinese.
The Han Chinese, when abroad, accuse people of racism at the drop of a hat even for extortion purposes, whilst being the most racist inbred psychopaths on earth. They are so brainwashed that when they live in other countries they still think all the western media is propaganda. That is what is dictated to them from birth.
But if Chinese person living, studding or traveling in another country does start to wise up and tries to do something then all their closest relatives are jailed and tortured back in mainland China by the CCP dictators, so they can't speak anywhere. Oh, and this does not happen in America............

 

[rederob]

United States allows for free speech, freedom of the press and pretty much everything politcal.

True, they have the wonderful Fox news channel, and social media sites that espouse more conspiracies than any sane person could ever imagine.
The USA's history of involvement in wars is legion. Better yet is its government's honesty with its populace.
It is true that China has a policing system and judiciary supporting the State. But then when you call the police for help you do not expect to get shot dead, and then have to confront the courts for justice.
These are somewhat incidental to China's economic power, which pundits have canned for decades, and have the credibility of Australia's pollsters.
Yes, China will at some point fall from economic grace, but I cannot see it on the horizon right now.

 

[notting]

Fox news is obviously biased for republicans as is CNN for democrats. They are not state owned like all the media dictated to in China.

The problem with the brainwashed psychopathic Han Chinese is that they have no concept of the 'social contract' that all of us in the free world and most other places naturally have. We won't and don't behave in certain ways simple because we have values and standards of decency.
The Chinese don't have such a sense of decency they in mainland China they are bullied into obedience otherwise they will do anything and every thing psychopath will do.
They keep debating with you in a thread like this because they have no sense of the grotesqueness of what they are representing. They think you would do exactly what they do if you were in their position. They convince themselves and are brainwashed into thinking that all other counties are the same or worse

If you watched Sixty Minutes tonight. You should have noted how the Chinese developer who was just a foreman type was going to go back and beat the Australians with an iron bar. It was his Fijii accomplices that talked the Chinese guy out of doing what the Han Chinese little prick thought was the natural next thing to do to the Australians he was destroying.




One of the nations China has quietly invaded whilst the world was looking the other way is East Turkistan. It should enrage all of us that the world media refers to them as minority groups when in fact they are occupied peoples in their own countries and not Chinese at all!
This is just a light tastes what they to to the people in the countries they invade ~ Oh and they have plans for Australia and New Zealand

Here is the concentration camps and their progress ~

What happens in the concentration camps

 

[rederob]

Fox news is obviously biased for republicans as is CNN for democrats. They are not state owned like all the media dictated to in China.

Same difference - news is not worth a cracker.
This thread is, however, about China's "bull run."
You should create a new topic and see how many are interested in your propaganda.
If you want to see how a nation destroys people rather than kill them, head off to Nauru.

 

[notting]

No freedom of speech is the most valuable thing a country can have.
It is the foundation of democracy, freedom and free determination.
It seems you can't tell the difference between truth that is as plane as day and CCP Lies.
Here is how the Chinese Communist Party silences and cleanses the the few good Chinese left ~