Christmas

[Value Collector]

Good to see our Vic Liberals standing up for our history and our traditions.

The State Government's assault on our mainstream values at Christmas is appalling.
This ban on Christmas Carols in State schools is yet another absurd example of political correctness weakening important traditions that our society have embraced for generations.
Post-modernist claims that their hollow ideology will create tolerance and a stronger society are false promises.
They offer no narrative or identity to bring people together.
The harmony of our society is held together by our traditions and history.
We forget our traditions at our own peril.

They should just Ban religious songs, there is plenty of secular Christmas carols to choose from, and they are the most fun to sing. most of the religious ones are not very good, unless you are religious I guess.

I also like john lennons Christmas song, I think its got a great message.

 

[Value Collector]

. I'm taking mine to see Star Wars.

So am I, lol. not till Thursday though, So I am currently trying to avoid spoilers like the plague.

 

[SirRumpole]

So am I, lol. not till Thursday though, So I am currently trying to avoid spoilers like the plague.

The good guys won.

:

 

[Tink]

As I said to Luutzu, it is good that we live in a free country, but comments like yours are not what a free country is, VC.
It is people like you that are destroying this country.

How dare you tell children what they can sing, that happens in North Korea.

Those are Christmas Carols that have been here way before your political correctness, and Daniel Andrews, this pathetic Victorian Premier we have, is the biggest hypocrite, when he talks about diversity.

Well I am glad to see that people have come out and had their say.
He has received a backlash, and petitions around Australia to show their disgust, and how important our traditions, our values and our history are

What is the matter with these Communists, yes you, VC, that they feel they need to silence people.

 

[nickg198]

Hey Everyone

Marry Christmas to all.

My name is Neil Gaiman from Queensland. I am new here in this forum.

 

[SirRumpole]

Hey Everyone

Marry Christmas to all.

My name is Neil Gaiman from Queensland. I am new here in this forum.

Welcome to you Neil. Lots of good discussions here and we need some new blood.

 

[Value Collector]

As I said to Luutzu, it is good that we live in a free country, but comments like yours are not what a free country is, VC.
It is people like you that are destroying this country.

How dare you tell children what they can sing, that happens in North Korea.

Those are Christmas Carols that have been here way before your political correctness, and Daniel Andrews, this pathetic Victorian Premier we have, is the biggest hypocrite, when he talks about diversity.

Well I am glad to see that people have come out and had their say.
He has received a backlash, and petitions around Australia to show their disgust, and how important our traditions, our values and our history are

What is the matter with these Communists, yes you, VC, that they feel they need to silence people.

How is me saying "you are free to practice what ever religion you want, but you are not free to force that religion on others" not exactly what a free country should be about?

See, you are only concerned with getting your own way, you are not concerned if you are infringing on the rights of others to have freedom from religion.

In a free country you are free to live a life without having religion forced on you, but you seem to think you are above that, and can force your religion, even though you would hate another religion being forced on you.

You are blind Tink, you seem to think me saying you can't preach to other people's kids at a public school is infringing your rights, that's crazy, those kids have the right to not be preached to, if you want kids preached to, send them to a faith school.

 

[Tink]

There is plenty of religion being pushed in state schools, and it is not Christianity.
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25851
Belief comes in many forms, as I have said before.

You are blind to the left agenda being pushed through schools, and your political correctness closing down conversations.
The Left trying to dismantle Christmas, and what is important in this country, is what I am standing up for.

As Rumpole said, are you going to dismantle our Christian public holidays, since it seems you don't agree with them.
The new name being pushed through is, Holiday Festival.

Conservatives try to preserve the important things in society, while you go around trying to destroy them, with nothing to show, but off the back of what Christianity created.

Our pathetic Victorian Premier has signed off for change next year.
His words of 'freedom and diversity' are rubbish.

------------
This was the article in the The Australian.

Christmas carol ban is out of tune with society.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...y/news-story/3065c467b3c77fc54cd7a6fab03982fa

Victoria's public schools are the frontline in the war on Christmas.

In an extraordinary decision of the Andrews government, Education Minister James Merlino issued a diktat to state government schools that has the effect of banning Christmas carols.

You may need to read that sentence one more time.

In an attempt to secularise public schools, a directive was issued last month to the principal of every Victorian public school. These new rules restrict the way in which teachers, parents and volunteers talk about religious ideas in our state schools. The most shocking aspect of the rules is that the teaching and singing of traditional Christmas carols will now be banished from the classroom.

"Praise music", defined as "any type of music that glorifies God or a particular religious figure or deity" will be banned from music classes beginning in January. This is the last year parents will be allowed to volunteer their lunchtimes to teach kids Christmas carols for the end-of-year concert.

Most children aren't even aware there's a religious dimension to Christmas carols. It's Christmas, and singing carols is just what people do. Silent Night has taken on its own significance beyond anything that may be characterised by some government bureaucrat as "praise music". Christmas carols now form a unique genre of music, and removing them from schools has the same effect banning any other genre of music would have; it ignores an important part of the complex tapestry of musical history.

In fact, the motivation behind a ban on Christmas carols today is remarkably similar to that which parents and teachers of children growing up in the 1950s and 60s shared in relation to rock 'n' roll. Sixty years ago, older generations worried Elvis Presley and Chuck Berry would lead a generation to juvenile delinquency. Today, the concern is that Christmas carols may lead to alarming ideas about religion and the meaning of Christmas. Christmas carols are the new subversive influence on youth that parents and teachers should be concerned about - a nonsense idea ironically given life by the fact the elite are attempting to ban them.

Of course, the government hasn't banned all Christmas carols, just those that refer to God. So while drab, contemporary Christmas songs such as Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer will be spared, the traditional carols - those that drip with a rich Christmas spirit - such as Once in Royal David's City, Hark! The Herald Angels Sing and O Come, All Ye Faithful are verboten in Victorian public schools.

But it's far bigger than all that. This is a cultural turning point. The Victorian government isn't just banning Christmas carols; this is an attempt to strip away the meaning of Christmas. It's an overt attack on one of the most significant events in the Christian calendar.

The decision goes to the heart of good education. Christmas, and all the ceremony and custom associated with it, has been a significant religious and cultural ritual for 1700 years. A ban on these traditions is a denial of our history. Suppressing aspects of the Christmas celebration denies a cultural heritage that has formed the basis of Western civilisation and that underpins our understanding of life and liberty.

A well-rounded education should include lessons on Christianity and its contribution to who we are today. We can't expect the next generation to defend the values of Western civilisation if they don't know what they are.

The inflammatory decision of the Andrews government to ban Christmas carols in Victoria's public schools must be reversed immediately. Former Victorian attorney-general Robert Clark is to be congratulated for taking a stand on the issue. In parliament Clark called on the government to "withdraw this appalling edict and make clear that students at government schools are entitled to learn, sing and enjoy Christmas carols as they have for generations". In the meantime, and while I'm still able to say it - merry Christmas!

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- The betrayal foretold by Orwell, which came into being by force in the Soviet Empire, is coming into being by consent, in the West

 

[Tisme]

How is me saying "you are free to practice what ever religion you want, but you are not free to force that religion on others" not exactly what a free country should be about?

See, you are only concerned with getting your own way, you are not concerned if you are infringing on the rights of others to have freedom from religion.

In a free country you are free to live a life without having religion forced on you, but you seem to think you are above that, and can force your religion, even though you would hate another religion being forced on you.

You are blind Tink, you seem to think me saying you can't preach to other people's kids at a public school is infringing your rights, that's crazy, those kids have the right to not be preached to, if you want kids preached to, send them to a faith school.

So you are saying children should be able to make their own choices from cradle to grave? What role do parents have and which parts of child instruction are they allowed to cherry pick in this free country?

Why would we allow govt to ban religious songs, but allow secular songs to celebrate the birth of a religious icon?

On a side note, doesn't the notion that religion creates all sorts of woes sound vaguely familiar with the same logic used by the gun lobby in the USA?

 

[Ves]

Christmas carol ban

Does anyone have any source for this that is not a paper or website owned by the Murdoch corporations?

I haven't found anything saying christmas carols are banned, in fact I understand that it's a ban on praise music and religious hymns, but christmas carols are excluded....

Beat up?

 

[Tink]

Christmas carol ban

Does anyone have any source for this that is not a paper or website owned by the Murdoch corporations?

I haven't found anything saying christmas carols are banned, in fact I understand that it's a ban on praise music and religious hymns, but christmas carols are excluded....

Beat up?

Christmas Carols in Schools: the directive given to Principals

http://murraycampbell.net/2015/12/17/christmas-carols-in-schools-the-directive-given-to-principals/

 

[Tink]

So you are saying children should be able to make their own choices from cradle to grave? What role do parents have and which parts of child instruction are they allowed to cherry pick in this free country?

Why would we allow govt to ban religious songs, but allow secular songs to celebrate the birth of a religious icon?

On a side note, doesn't the notion that religion creates all sorts of woes sound vaguely familiar with the same logic used by the gun lobby in the USA?

Agree, Tisme.

It is all a part of trashing our heritage.

 

[Ves]

Christmas Carols in Schools: the directive given to Principals

http://murraycampbell.net/2015/12/17/christmas-carols-in-schools-the-directive-given-to-principals/

So, if as that blog post seems to say, they're not actually banned, why are you and the Australian newspaper claiming they are?

I'm a bit confused.

I've also found that The Age newspaper seems to have figured it out on 24 November (close to the date of the directive).

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/p...but-not-christmas-carols-20151124-gl6svm.html

The problem with Murdoch papers is that you have to spend time investigating their wild claims.

 

[Value Collector]

So you are saying children should be able to make their own choices from cradle to grave? What role do parents have and which parts of child instruction are they allowed to cherry pick in this free country?

Why would we allow govt to ban religious songs, but allow secular songs to celebrate the birth of a religious icon?

On a side note, doesn't the notion that religion creates all sorts of woes sound vaguely familiar with the same logic used by the gun lobby in the USA?

I didn't say anything about that, obviously parents make decisions for their kids to a point, and it's the parents decision which religion the child is raised in or not to be raised in, it is not the job of a public school to pick a religion.

if you want to raise your kids in a religion send them to a faith school or just take them to church on weekends.

Try walking in some one else's shoes, would you want your kids to receive a Muslim educaton

If. If you should under stand why many parents don't want a Christian one

 

[Tink]

So, if as that blog post seems to say, they're not actually banned, why are you and the Australian newspaper claiming they are?

I'm a bit confused.

I've also found that The Age newspaper seems to have figured it out on 24 November (close to the date of the directive).

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/p...but-not-christmas-carols-20151124-gl6svm.html

The problem with Murdoch papers is that you have to spend time investigating their wild claims.

But they are still banned, Ves, going by the directive, unless it gets changed.

Words are cheap, and as I said, they received a backlash.

'Silent Night' is a Christmas song, so is 'Away in a Manger', as are many others.

So you want it called a Holiday Festival then, or the public holiday removed?

Christmas is Christ's Mass.

 

[Ves]

But they are still banned, Ves, going by the directive, unless it gets changed.

Here's a statement from the responsible MP's website:

Access Ministries is currently running a campaign on the Government’s changes to Special Religious Instruction (SRI) in schools for 2016.

As a part of this campaign they are claiming that the singing of Christmas carols has been banned in schools. Christmas carols are not banned. Traditional Christmas carols have been and will continue to be sung at our government schools.

http://www.jamesmerlino.com.au/news/governments-changes-to-special-religious-instruction-sri/

 

[Tink]

Thanks, Ves, but it is not religious, it is a part of our culture and our history, as I wrote above.

Merlino says ---

"The guidelines exist to make it clear that there is no proselytizing in Victorian government schools.

That has got to be the biggest joke coming out of the left, and their school curriculum.

 

[Tisme]

I didn't say anything about that, obviously parents make decisions for their kids to a point, and it's the parents decision which religion the child is raised in or not to be raised in, it is not the job of a public school to pick a religion.

if you want to raise your kids in a religion send them to a faith school or just take them to church on weekends.

Try walking in some one else's shoes, would you want your kids to receive a Muslim educaton

If. If you should under stand why many parents don't want a Christian one

But it seems you are advocating govt interference in our freedoms of choice, which is counter intuitive to me. We pay for both state and private schools through our taxation, so why would one school be treated differently to another?

 

[Tisme]

Thanks, Ves, but it is not religious, it is a part of our culture and our history, as I wrote above.

Merlino says ---

"The guidelines exist to make it clear that there is no proselytizing in Victorian government schools.

That has got to be the biggest joke coming out of the left, and their school curriculum.

Didn't they pass the buck to principals to decide (at their own career peril) ? Can you imagine someone like Tanya Plib. giving you the pursed lips and rolling eyes that most female Labor pollies in particular have ... it would be dreadful and hurts feelings for the poor old head master.

I'm fairly sure it would be a very brave school head who offended our future Islamic masters by playing xmas carols and displaying overt Jesus themes. That's the way unhealthy memes like Christianity start.... it just takes one talking head plus a necklace cross and away they go spreading bible texts like a virus, threatening the peaceful acquiescence of our great multicultural halal nation.

At least with believers like yourself Tink, I know you would face up to any bad things you would do when God tells you to, not like the other mob who suicide rather than accept the consequences of their own selfish behaviours. The good thing about the Aussie X to now gens is that when it comes to defending the preservation of our lacklustre past, we can be happy knowing they will put in the good fight on their playstations and facebook likes emojis.

 

[Value Collector]

But it seems you are advocating govt interference in our freedoms of choice, which is counter intuitive to me. We pay for both state and private schools through our taxation, so why would one school be treated differently to another?

Because a non religious state school, should not be preaching a religion and it shouldn't be favoring one religion.

I am not in favor of the government funding religious schools either.