Christmas

[SirRumpole]

Its called Fan fiction Buddy, Islam came about hundreds of years after the stories of Jesus had made the rounds.

Allah is just the Arabic would for god, and Allah is the god of Abraham, the same god from the Old and new testament, So the kept a lot of the same characters and just wrote a new book to suit themselves, Much like the Christians did.

So logically speaking, Muslims, Jews and Christians all worship the same god, so why should Jews and Christians be seen as "infidels" by Muslims ?

This is a pretty important point imo, because all the religious wars being fought appear to be based on a false premise i.e. that Allah is only for Muslims and everyone else are unbelievers.

 

[Value Collector]

So logically speaking, Muslims, Jews and Christians all worship the same god, so why should Jews and Christians be seen as "infidels" by Muslims ?

This is a pretty important point imo, because all the religious wars being fought appear to be based on a false premise i.e. that Allah is only for Muslims and everyone else are unbelievers.

Some of the conflict is because they are fighting over some of the same religious sites and holy lands.

The Jews and the chrisitians deny Mohammed is a prophet at all, and that pisses off a lot of Muslims, they also deny the teachings of the quran, eg women don't cover up, drink alcohol, eat pork (Though only Christians ignore the bible and quran commands about pork)

The Qu'ran does talk about "the people of the book", Being the bible followers, and I think it puts them higher in the pecking order than non believers, but they are still pretty lowly because they have been "fooled and corrupted" into believeing Jesus was a god.

 

[pixel]

So logically speaking, Muslims, Jews and Christians all worship the same god, so why should Jews and Christians be seen as "infidels" by Muslims ?

This is a pretty important point imo, because all the religious wars being fought appear to be based on a false premise i.e. that Allah is only for Muslims and everyone else are unbelievers.

The "Religions of The Book" - you mentioned the major three - are tribal by nature:
We are right, the only Tribe loved by The Boss, and all other Tribes must be damned!
It originated when resources were scarce and tribes had to defend their turf or lose it to the mob next-door. Much like bikies and triads battling it out in today's suburbs. Primitive atavism.

You'll be far less surprised about the Islamic "Us vs Them" attitude when you think back to the Crusades. Or even the strife in Northern Ireland. Those combatants even claim to be Christian on both sides!

It seems we're back to the other topic, "Religious Nutters Are Crazy"

 

[McLovin]

The "Religions of The Book" - you mentioned the major three - are tribal by nature:
We are right, the only Tribe loved by The Boss, and all other Tribes must be damned!
It originated when resources were scarce and tribes had to defend their turf or lose it to the mob next-door. Much like bikies and triads battling it out in today's suburbs. Primitive atavism.

You'll be far less surprised about the Islamic "Us vs Them" attitude when you think back to the Crusades. Or even the strife in Northern Ireland. Those combatants even claim to be Christian on both sides!

It seems we're back to the other topic, "Religious Nutters Are Crazy"

+1

Just look at how the sunnis butcher the shiites and vice-versa. All the Abrahamic religions have the same base they just change the icing. Muslim, Jew, Christian are more similar than they're not. Each built on the last. The Christians took the Torah and adopted it as the Old Testament and added the New Testament. The Muslims took both and added the Koran.

 

[Value Collector]

It seems we're back to the other topic, "Religious Nutters Are Crazy"

lol, its such fertile ground for discussion.

the worst thing is each of the 3 religions call for the world to end, and growing numbers of each side believe its happening soon and are even pushing for it to happen.

very scary when leaders believe it.

 

[Tink]

So I presume you are including atheism (extremists) and their religion, their belief and rage against God.
Making money off the back of non believers, and their political correctness.

Christmas -- Christ's Mass.

You can try and change history all you like, VC, but it is there.

Christmas is a Christian holiday.

holiday

Origin
Old English hāligdæg ‘holy day’.

Old English hāligdæg ‘holy day’.

holy
[hoh-lee] -- specially recognized as or declared sacred by religious use or authority; consecrated:

Our history, our tradition, and our Christian culture.

 

[Logique]

Not to trample on anyone's sensibilities at this time of year, but just wanted to mention the ancient Roman Saturnalia and ancient Greek Kronia, which are similar in theme.

Also the prevailing view is that Stonehenge was orientated towards, and spawned celebrations around, the mid-winter solstice - praying for the sun to return.

With the Christian festival, I wish some thought had been given to southern hemisphere worshippers, slogging it out in the summer heat. Mid winter would be such a better time for this festival.

 

[Tisme]

So logically speaking, Muslims, Jews and Christians all worship the same god, so why should Jews and Christians be seen as "infidels" by Muslims ?

This is a pretty important point imo, because all the religious wars being fought appear to be based on a false premise i.e. that Allah is only for Muslims and everyone else are unbelievers.

It seems to be the subsets that cause a lot of the grief. Remember Ireland?

 

[SirRumpole]

It seems to be the subsets that cause a lot of the grief. Remember Ireland?

Not to mention the internecine Muslim wars, Sunni vs Shia

 

[luutzu]

It seems to be the subsets that cause a lot of the grief. Remember Ireland?

Sometime it could just be the drunken red heads. haha

 

[luutzu]

Not to mention the internecine Muslim wars, Sunni vs Shia

When people go to war, they'll find some differences that make them better than their enemies.

WW1 was pretty much a Christian kingdom on Christian kingdom thing. Their kings/czar were all cousins (thanks Victoria) who were pretty good friends before the German one got gunboat envy... Not sure what each side see as the cause of that war.

 

[Tisme]

When people go to war, they'll find some differences that make them better than their enemies.

WW1 was pretty much a Christian kingdom on Christian kingdom thing. Their kings/czar were all cousins (thanks Victoria) who were pretty good friends before the German one got gunboat envy... Not sure what each side see as the cause of that war.

First industrial war = expansion of empires for labour and resources

 

[Bill M]

This is the one time of the year I hate very much. The sooner it's over and the kids are back at school the quicker we resume our happy normal lives.

We just hunker down, go nowhere and get out of the way of others who only have this time for shopping, family and the travels they want to do.

You should see the deranged morons on Christmas eve, you would think the shops were closing for weeks the way they all queue for everything the same time, same areas, going around in circles in the 38 degree heat in the carpark looking for a space. Like there isn't 363 other days in the year to stock up.

My fridge was full of beer and wine a while ago. Air con will be on, smoked salmon and poached eggs for brekkie and no bickering family idiots to put up with. A quiet day at home eating all the goodies and having a few drinkies with the wife and that is it for us.

To the rest of you all, Merry Christmas and enjoy it, cheers. :alcohol:

 

[SirRumpole]

This is the one time of the year I hate very much. The sooner it's over and the kids are back at school the quicker we resume our happy normal lives.

We just hunker down, go nowhere and get out of the way of others who only have this time for shopping, family and the travels they want to do.

You should see the deranged morons on Christmas eve, you would think the shops were closing for weeks the way they all queue for everything the same time, same areas, going around in circles in the 38 degree heat in the carpark looking for a space. Like there isn't 363 other days in the year to stock up.

My fridge was full of beer and wine a while ago. Air con will be on, smoked salmon and poached eggs for brekkie and no bickering family idiots to put up with. A quiet day at home eating all the goodies and having a few drinkies with the wife and that is it for us.

To the rest of you all, Merry Christmas and enjoy it, cheers. :alcohol:

It all seems a bit too obligatory these days. Of course it's commercialised to the limit and probably causes more problems than it solves.

 

[Value Collector]

So I presume you are including atheism (extremists) and their religion, their belief and rage against God.
Making money off the back of non believers, and their political correctness.

Christmas -- Christ's Mass.

You can try and change history all you like, VC, but it is there.

Christmas is a Christian holiday.

holiday

Origin
Old English hāligdæg ‘holy day’.

Old English hāligdæg ‘holy day’.

holy
[hoh-lee] -- specially recognized as or declared sacred by religious use or authority; consecrated:

Our history, our tradition, and our Christian culture.

i

So which extremists are doing bad things because of atheism tink?

Atheists don't "hate god", we don't believe in God, to the point we get angry, we are angry at religious folk forcing their imaginary friends on us, and trying to infringe on our rights.

Christmas was a pagan holiday before it was renamed, then it was Christian for a long time, now it's mostly celebrated in a secular fashion, not many people attend "Christs mass" any more, but you are free to.

Ask the average person in the street what they love about Christmas and how they are celebrating, I doubt you will get a high percentage stating religious things.

 

[Bill M]

Atheists don't "hate god", we don't believe in God, to the point we get angry, we are angry at religious folk forcing their imaginary friends on us, and trying to infringe on our rights.

I have a DO NOT KNOCK sticker next to my front door. The other day some Jehovah Witlessness came and knocked on my door. Maybe they can't read or didn't see the sticker.

I told them I don't believe in any religion. I was polite at all times but the second guy then said, "look at this beautiful flower, only a higher being is responsible for this, this isn't a freak of nature." I told him, I cut it, I planted it and grew it myself. No freaking God gave it to me. He said maybe they could call back sometime in the future and I told them not to worry about it. I wish they would all piss off and leave me alone.

 

[Value Collector]

Our history, our tradition, and our Christian culture.

and you are free to have what ever traditions you want, but why do you ant to force your traditions on others, other people have other traditions.

Why can't you just be happy with your own traditions, Why is it that Christians are never really happy until they believe society at large is following their traditions.

I have a tradition of sitting on my Dads verandah eating mussels and drinking rum, that makes me happy, but I am not going to try and make you do it, who are you to try and tell everyone else what they should be celebrating.

 

[luutzu]

and you are free to have what ever traditions you want, but why do you ant to force your traditions on others, other people have other traditions.

Why can't you just be happy with your own traditions, Why is it that Christians are never really happy until they believe society at large is following their traditions.

I have a tradition of sitting on my Dads verandah eating mussels and drinking rum, that makes me happy, but I am not going to try and make you do it, who are you to try and tell everyone else what they should be celebrating.

yea. but maybe that's because your Dad wouldn't want us on that verandah drinking his rum

 

[luutzu]

I have a DO NOT KNOCK sticker next to my front door. The other day some Jehovah Witlessness came and knocked on my door. Maybe they can't read or didn't see the sticker.

I told them I don't believe in any religion. I was polite at all times but the second guy then said, "look at this beautiful flower, only a higher being is responsible for this, this isn't a freak of nature." I told him, I cut it, I planted it and grew it myself. No freaking God gave it to me. He said maybe they could call back sometime in the future and I told them not to worry about it. I wish they would all piss off and leave me alone.

God always take credit for the good stuff.

And Xmas... the parents buy the presents, but for some reason the kids have to believe some fat dude gave it to them. Where's our credit when it's earned and paid for?

 

[luutzu]

First industrial war = expansion of empires for labour and resources

ah see.

So no clash of civilisation... just last man standing get to keep what's left then?