Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[sails]

Of course, there's JUST NO WAY Kapitan KRudd would ever see this brilliant, new PNG Policy as a totally expedient means to an end (ie - to WIN the election - nothing more, nothing less) then do an amazing backflip sometime shortly AFTER the election if quite possibly (no, make that probably...100%) the :fan

No, he wouldn't dare take us all for chumps, would he..??? He's an honest politician, to be sure..

It would be real easy to backflip after the election as PNG could easily pull out. After all it seems Rudd has put all his eggs in one basket making a back flip easy, IMO. It seems little thought has been put into this rushed policy.

At least the coalition have a proven system and have been consistent in their policy. They give me more confidence in actually managing our borders than labor with their history of stuff-ups and constant policy changes and rushed thought bubbles on this issue.

 

[chiff]

At this moment Rudd has won the race to the bottom.Political expediency on steroids.However TAs plan to treat Indonesia with disdain by turning back the boats has been gazumped.
I feel as if Muslim countries all over would have a suspicion that Australia is a quasi-NATO country at the bottom of Asia...never prepared to engage properly with the region, in particular with our Indonesian neighbours. Surely the world-wide refugee problem needs more than a partisan political response.
Are we up for it?

 

[Calliope]

It would be real easy to backflip after the election as PNG could easily pull out. After all it seems Rudd has put all his eggs in one basket making a back flip easy, IMO. It seems little thought has been put into this rushed policy.

After reading the morning papers it seems that there are doubts whether Rudd's policy will work. But you know what? It doesn't have to . All he needs to do is to sell the illusion that it will work, until the election is over, and he maybe on a winner.

 

[sails]

At this moment Rudd has won the race to the bottom.Political expediency on steroids.However TAs plan to treat Indonesia with disdain by turning back the boats has been gazumped.
I feel as if Muslim countries all over would have a suspicion that Australia is a quasi-NATO country at the bottom of Asia...never prepared to engage properly with the region, in particular with our Indonesian neighbours. Surely the world-wide refugee problem needs more than a partisan political response.
Are we up for it?

Chiff - the Pacific Solution was never just about tuning back the boats. It is but one part of the solution which actually worked.

Why misrepresent it?

 

[drsmith]

Andrew Bolt has created a summery page of media commentary which poses some interesting questions,

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...ldsun/comments/rudds_boat_deal_the_questions/

Something cooked up this quick lacks a lot of detail, including the hard limit on how many PNG will take, the speed at which Manus Island can be upgraded to take 3000 and of course the cost. The latter is obviously too scary to put a figure on or it hasn't even been worked out.

As an external solution, it at least has the virtue of being better than Malaysia in that any cap is much higher but at the same time, the current boat arrival problem is much larger. It is also brought to us by a political leader who created the problem in the first place, denounced this very approach, walked away from what he regarded as the greatest moral challenge of our time and now for a second time leads a political party that under no circumstances he would lead again.

Put simply, no one in their right mind would trust him to deliver on this.

 

[drsmith]

From the PM who caused the problem in the first place,



From The Australian,

The cost to the budget will be significant as the government outlines major spending commitments in PNG, only some of which can be funded from existing provisions for foreign aid.

Government sources said the new spending would be offset by savings measures "in due course" after Mr Rudd promised the new policy would be "budget neutral".

Mr Rudd acknowledged that the change would be subject to a court challenge but suggested the government was ready for the legal dispute, given the lessons from the High Court's rejection of Julia Gillard's plan to send asylum-seekers to Malaysia.

"We are operating here within the framework, the legal framework, of the UN convention and Australian domestic law," Mr Rudd said.

"We are entirely mindful of earlier determinations by the Australian High Court."


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ine-png-solution/story-fn59niix-1226682289627

 

[Chris45]

I would expect that if Rudd is re-elected, he'll probably then announce a doubling or tripling of the official refugee intake to appease the bleeding-heart left, so the end result for us will be the same and the "better life" seekers will continue to come on down to live on our welfare.

A new industry will be created in Indonesia coaching them in how to pass our refugee appraisal test and the only difference will be that instead of arriving on decrepit old boats, they'll be arriving in style on aircraft.

I just read, "Aiming to deflect some of the criticism of the harshness of the measures, Mr Rudd said Australia was a "compassionate nation" and the government would consider increasing its 27,000 annual humanitarian migration intake if there was a big fall in boat arrivals." There you go!

 

[Julia]

After reading the morning papers it seems that there are doubts whether Rudd's policy will work. But you know what? It doesn't have to . All he needs to do is to sell the illusion that it will work, until the election is over, and he maybe on a winner.

In their joint press conference, the two Prime Ministers all but said this. They seem to be gambling on never actually having to implement the policy fully. Presumably people from the next few boats will indeed be flown to PNG to confirm the announcement to make it look real, the boats will stop coming and the ruse will have worked.

Highly optimistic scenario imo. It will be so interesting to see what happens now that the announcement has been made and the advertising of it begun. At least a month before the election so we will have some idea of whether it has worked.

I would expect that if Rudd is re-elected, he'll probably then announce a doubling or tripling of the official refugee intake to appease the bleeding-heart left, so the end result for us will be the same and the "better life" seekers will continue to come on down to live on our welfare.

If genuine refugees - the people proven to be so - who have been waiting years in squalid camps will get their turn to be resettled here, I'm all for increasing the humanitarian intake. It's the arrogant people who can afford to pay people smugglers that need to be stopped.

 

[drsmith]

Fallout, day 1.

Refugee processing has been halted on Nauru, where riots on Friday caused an estimated $60 million damage and left four asylum seekers in hospital.

Most of the centre has been destroyed, with only the kitchen and recreation buildings standing. Accommodation blocks designed to hold up to 616 people were burned to the ground, as were office blocks. A dining room and health centre were also destroyed.

According to a written order obtained by Fairfax Media, Nauru's acting Police Minister, David Adeang, has deputised a new "Nauru Police Force Reserve" to respond to the riots.

The force includes contractors from Australian company Transfield as well as ''all others deputised to respond.

On Friday women and children on Nauru were instructed by the government to lock their doors and stay inside until further notice. Men were told to present to the centre to be deputised as security guards.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...rges-after-60m-in-damages-20130720-2qavg.html

The Opposition's view,

THE first 81 asylum seekers subject to Kevin Rudd's new PNG regime have entered detention on Christmas Island, as the Opposition said a Coalition government would keep elements of the hardline Labor policy.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ine-png-solution/story-fn59niix-1226682406568

 

[sptrawler]

$60million damage on Nauru, apparently they could face one to seven years jail. They would get citizenship after five.lol

Why wouldn't you just deport them?

http://www.watoday.com.au/federal-p...rges-after-60m-in-damages-20130720-2qavg.html

 

[Chris45]

If genuine refugees - the people proven to be so - who have been waiting years in squalid camps will get their turn to be resettled here, I'm all for increasing the humanitarian intake. It's the arrogant people who can afford to pay people smugglers that need to be stopped.

I agree with the "arrogant people" part but what worries me is the $millions upon millions we're being forced to spend on this refugee problem with building detention centers, buying cooperation from neighbouring governments, welfare payments, etc.

Meanwhile our own elderly folk are suffering appalling neglect and mistreatment in our underfunded and overstretched aged-care system ... a system some of us here could well be dependent on in the not too distant future.

With the world population currently at seven billion, and still growing exponentially, what will the refugee situation be when there's 30-50% more people on the planet seeking better lives in compassionate developed countries like Australia?

If you give people an easy option, that's the one they'll most likely take.

 

[sptrawler]

Then PNG will be used as a stepping stone for Australian asylum, but it doesn't include a dangerous ocean voyage.

It is just another policy on the run, headline grabbing prank, he's a dick.

Much better to just stop the people leaving their homelands.

Well Queensland has worked it out.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...tion-in-brisbane/story-fnihsrf2-1226682403338

Extract.
KEVIN Rudd's plan to send refugees to Papua New Guinea will spark a wave of asylum seekers trying to reach Queensland, Premier Campbell Newman says.

 

[sails]

Well Queensland has worked it out.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...tion-in-brisbane/story-fnihsrf2-1226682403338

Extract.
KEVIN Rudd's plan to send refugees to Papua New Guinea will spark a wave of asylum seekers trying to reach Queensland, Premier Campbell Newman says.

Did anyone expect this to be a well thought out policy?...lol

The coalition have had months to sort out their policy whereas Rudd's seems to be nothing short of hitting the panic buttons.

 

[FlyingFox]

Well Queensland has worked it out.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...tion-in-brisbane/story-fnihsrf2-1226682403338

Extract.
KEVIN Rudd's plan to send refugees to Papua New Guinea will spark a wave of asylum seekers trying to reach Queensland, Premier Campbell Newman says.

Seriously I would imagine there would be a lot of filters in place to stop BS like that from getting to the public. More importantly I would imagine by natural selection, the majority of politicians shouldn't have made it thus far. I guess it is natural selection working differently, we are so distracted by the BS coming out of their mouths that we keep voting for them despite the lack of any convincing policies. This goes for all sides of politics...

The wonders never cease to amaze...

- - - Updated - - -

Did anyone expect this to be a well thought out policy?...lol

The coalition have had months to sort out their policy whereas Rudd's seems to be nothing short of hitting the panic buttons.

Well thought out or not ... he has taken a stand, a hard one no doubt but a stand. Personally I don't see many other solutions to this.

 

[sails]

...Well thought out or not ... he has taken a stand, a hard one no doubt but a stand. Personally I don't see many other solutions to this.

What took labor so long to realise that Rudd's 2007 policy of dismantling the Pacific Solution was a bad idea? Why wait until 45,000 have arrived (of whom we now need to support for goodness how long) - and weeks before an election?...

That money could have been used for our own homeless, hospitals, aged, etc.

This rushed policy looks more like panic to me.

Commentators are saying Rudd was "Howard lite" in 2007 - now he has gone "Howard heavy". So now labor are happy that Rudd has gone for something close to coalition policy?

Do labor have anything that they actually stand for other than desperation for power?

 

[FlyingFox]

What took labor so long to realise that Rudd's 2007 policy of dismantling the Pacific Solution was a bad idea? Why wait until 45,000 have arrived (of whom we now need to support for goodness how long) - and weeks before an election?...

That money could have been used for our own homeless, hospitals, aged, etc.

This rushed policy looks more like panic to me.

Commentators are saying Rudd was "Howard lite" in 2007 - now he has gone "Howard heavy". So now labor are happy that Rudd has gone for something close to coalition policy?

Do labor have anything that they actually stand for other than desperation for power?

As per my comments above, it obvious that I don't hold any side of politics in high esteem. If it is not clear, I will reiterate, Labour and Liberals are pretty much the same. Neither of them have clear policy above what they deem to be popular with the voting public.

The dismantling of the policy was probably to placate the greens, this hard stand is because it maybe deemed to be popular with the public.

Anyways I doubt this is the end of this issue...

 

[sptrawler]

As per my comments above, it obvious that I don't hold any side of politics in high esteem. If it is not clear, I will reiterate, Labour and Liberals are pretty much the same. Neither of them have clear policy above what they deem to be popular with the voting public.

The dismantling of the policy was probably to placate the greens, this hard stand is because it maybe deemed to be popular with the public.

Anyways I doubt this is the end of this issue...

I think you have called that right, the next few weeks will be interesting, to say the least.
My guess the proverbial will hit the fan, one way or another.

 

[drsmith]

As per my comments above, it obvious that I don't hold any side of politics in high esteem. If it is not clear, I will reiterate, Labour and Liberals are pretty much the same. Neither of them have clear policy above what they deem to be popular with the voting public.

The dismantling of the policy was probably to placate the greens, this hard stand is because it maybe deemed to be popular with the public.

Anyways I doubt this is the end of this issue...

One thing Labor has made clear over their past six years on office with their contradictory positions on a range of issues is that they stand purely for that office and little else.

 

[sptrawler]

One thing Labor has made clear over their past six years on office with their contradictory positions on a range of issues is that they stand purely for that office and little else.

Yes doc, I think the Laborites have finally realised we weren't just being argumentative, when we kept saying Labor stand for nothing other than staying in office.

I think it requires three terms to get full benefits, a lot of them only have two.lol

 

[Julia]

I agree with the "arrogant people" part but what worries me is the $millions upon millions we're being forced to spend on this refugee problem with building detention centers, buying cooperation from neighbouring governments, welfare payments, etc.

Meanwhile our own elderly folk are suffering appalling neglect and mistreatment in our underfunded and overstretched aged-care system ... a system some of us here could well be dependent on in the not too distant future.

With the world population currently at seven billion, and still growing exponentially, what will the refugee situation be when there's 30-50% more people on the planet seeking better lives in compassionate developed countries like Australia?

If you give people an easy option, that's the one they'll most likely take.

Chris, I'm in complete sympathy with your comments above, especially with regard to taking care of our own Australians, not just in the aged care system which absolutely does need massively greater funding, but also in caring for our mentally ill and disabled, and those who have paid all their lives into the tax system, but who are not being properly supported if they lose a job through no fault of their own.

That both sides of government can elect to completely ignore these areas of great disadvantage whilst providing accommodation, food, medical, dental, optical and psychological services, most of which are difficult to access for our own people, to people who are pushing their way in, is unbelievable.

I'd reserve a special measure of disdain for all those refugee advocates, who will do their utmost to attempt to scuttle this measure by Labor.
If they applied just a fraction of the empathy and sympathy to our own disadvantaged people that they so freely pour forth toward asylum seekers, that would be something. I won't be holding my breath for that to happen.

And now we have millions of dollars of damage done to the Nauru facility by detainees.
That the government does not immediately deport those responsible is incomprehensible to me.