Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[sptrawler]

Chris, I'm in complete sympathy with your comments above, especially with regard to taking care of our own Australians, not just in the aged care system which absolutely does need massively greater funding, but also in caring for our mentally ill and disabled, and those who have paid all their lives into the tax system, but who are not being properly supported if they lose a job through no fault of their own.

That both sides of government can elect to completely ignore these areas of great disadvantage whilst providing accommodation, food, medical, dental, optical and psychological services, most of which are difficult to access for our own people, to people who are pushing their way in, is unbelievable.

I'd reserve a special measure of disdain for all those refugee advocates, who will do their utmost to attempt to scuttle this measure by Labor.
If they applied just a fraction of the empathy and sympathy to our own disadvantaged people that they so freely pour forth toward asylum seekers, that would be something. I won't be holding my breath for that to happen.

And now we have millions of dollars of damage done to the Nauru facility by detainees.
That the government does not immediately deport those responsible is incomprehensible to me.

What I find incomprehensible, is how labor supporters can reconcile Labor welfare cuts, while supporting an influx of 45,000 welfare recipients. Who they now say, they could have stopped, with the stroke of a pen.
Who the hell are Labor representing? Obviously not Australians.

 

[FlyingFox]

If this story is to be believed then measures are already working ...

http://www.news.com.au/national-new...-seekers-declare/story-fncynjr2-1226682491915

 

[Knobby22]

You have to admit its better than the Liberal plan. It will stop the boats like a brick wall.

And saying its betraying Labor principles is a furphy. Gillard completely changed her tactics to pretty much match the Libs but ineffectively. So it is really a continuation of Labor policy. The Greens hate it but their votes will flow to Labor anyway.

Didn't make the front page on the Melbourne Herald Sun, instead they attacked Rudd on the car tax.

 

[sptrawler]

If this story is to be believed then measures are already working ...

http://www.news.com.au/national-new...-seekers-declare/story-fncynjr2-1226682491915

Well then, like I said, why wasn't it done before 45,000 people arrived here.
Obviously it could have been done at any time, Gillard talked to the PNG government, Rudd before her opened the gates.
To coin a phrase WTF is going on.
Why let it get to that stage before doing something, or is it just a vote grabbing excercise.

 

[FlyingFox]

Well then, like I said, why wasn't it done before 45,000 people arrived here.
Obviously it could have been done at any time, Gillard talked to the PNG government, Rudd before her opened the gates.
To coin a phrase WTF is going on.
Why let it get to that stage before doing something, or is it just a vote grabbing excercise.

Various reasons and I am sure they will be debated to no end.

But I gotta give it to Rudd, he has balls to at least try and make unpopular decisions. Mining tax cost him the position and I can imagine this won't be globally popular either and the FBT change.

 

[Julia]

Various reasons and I am sure they will be debated to no end.

But I gotta give it to Rudd, he has balls to at least try and make unpopular decisions. Mining tax cost him the position and I can imagine this won't be globally popular either and the FBT change.

The mining tax was quite different. He was thrashed on that at least partly because of his lack of consultation and the woeful design.

The whole principle of controlling who comes to Australia doesn't require consultation with the damn people smugglers or rioting asylum seekers: it requires hard action. Rudd has finally done this, obviously by giving bucketloads of money to PNG.

What is yet to be established is whether it is a real policy, actually intended to be carried out in full for all time, or a cunning ploy to get him through the election as a winner by having cut the ground from under the feet of the Opposition.
If he gets through also his legislation to prevent the removal of a PM during the whole term of a government, he can do what he likes on being re-elected. There are already rumblings about the potential pitfalls in his proposition, the Greens and refugee advocates will test it in court, and anyone who thinks the announcement on Friday heralds a trouble-free application of the policy is dreaming imo.

For all that, it's a brilliant tactic on both fronts of almost certainly stopping the boats, and, just as important, wiping out Tony Abbott's advantage in this area.

And when you describe it as an 'unpopular decision', I would question that. It will only be unpopular with the Labor Left and the Greens.

 

[Calliope]

Mark Dreyfus on Meet the Press this morning said that PNG would take "unlimited numbers" of asylum seekers from us. This is rubbish. No PM of a foreign country in his right mind would give such an undertaking unless Rudd offered "unlimited" and never-ending bribes.

Scott Morrison said PNG PM Peter O'Neill said they would be looking to return some of the asylum seekers to us for resettlement.

Rudd just has to hope this doesn't blow up before the election. The PNG solution looks very shaky to me.

 

[FlyingFox]

The mining tax was quite different. He was thrashed on that at least partly because of his lack of consultation and the woeful design.

Perhaps...but consultation left us with empty coffers...For all the fuss that was raised about the mining tax, IMHO the only party that has come out worse off is the Australian government finances. Most of the promised investment that was to be stopped by the tax has been stopped anyway by market forces...

The whole principle of controlling who comes to Australia doesn't require consultation with the damn people smugglers or rioting asylum seekers: it requires hard action. Rudd has finally done this, obviously by giving bucketloads of money to PNG.

What is yet to be established is whether it is a real policy, actually intended to be carried out in full for all time, or a cunning ploy to get him through the election as a winner by having cut the ground from under the feet of the Opposition.
If he gets through also his legislation to prevent the removal of a PM during the whole term of a government, he can do what he likes on being re-elected. There are already rumblings about the potential pitfalls in his proposition, the Greens and refugee advocates will test it in court, and anyone who thinks the announcement on Friday heralds a trouble-free application of the policy is dreaming imo.

For all that, it's a brilliant tactic on both fronts of almost certainly stopping the boats, and, just as important, wiping out Tony Abbott's advantage in this area.

And when you describe it as an 'unpopular decision', I would question that. It will only be unpopular with the Labor Left and the Greens.

It's amazing when both sides of politics are playing politics unlike when Gillard and Swannie were around and getting beaten over the head on everything.

Real policy or not, all they need to do is resettle the first boatload that comes through and thus show that they will do it; it will stop people coming through, especially the "economic" refugees.

Perhaps I should say its not a universally popular decision. Apart from the green and the left I am certain that this does not sit comfortably with a fair chunk of the population, perhaps because PNG is perhaps thought of as similar to the countries the refugees came from (far from the truth I know, I grew up in Fiji). However if the government can communicate this well, then it will be more of a popular decision.

Now if he tells Holden to p*** off, might consider voting for him lol.

 

[Chris45]

Pictures of the remains of the Nauru immigration detention centre:
http://www.news.com.au/national-new...u-detention-riot/story-fncynjr2-1226682456715

STOP building expensive air conditioned accommodation blocks and recreational facilities for these people! How many more times do we have to see this stupid senseless destruction before we say "ENOUGH"!

Tents on timber platforms with cheap pedestal fans is all they need, and if they destroy them because we don't jump when they snap their fingers demanding entry, replace the tents with simple sheets of plastic.

 

[Julia]

Perhaps...but consultation left us with empty coffers...

Yes, it has. But whose fault is that? If the government left the design of the tax MK II to the mining companies, what did they expect?

It's amazing when both sides of politics are playing politics unlike when Gillard and Swannie were around and getting beaten over the head on everything.

Sure. As (I think) Knobby observed, Rudd is the consummate politician. He has had three years to plan his comeback and has clearly spent the time productively.

Real policy or not, all they need to do is resettle the first boatload that comes through and thus show that they will do it; it will stop people coming through, especially the "economic" refugees.

Yes, or the first half dozen. That's fairly clearly what they're counting on. Hard to imagine how they would accommodate the current numbers in available accommodation on PNG.

STOP building expensive air conditioned accommodation blocks and recreational facilities for these people! How many more times do we have to see this stupid senseless destruction before we say "ENOUGH"!

Tents on timber platforms with cheap pedestal fans is all they need, and if they destroy them because we don't jump when they snap their fingers demanding entry, replace the tents with simple sheets of plastic.

And charge the people responsible, then deport them.

What are people's impressions of Tony Burke's performance so far in Immigration? I think he's doing well.
He actually gives real answers to questions and seems able to strike a balance between delivering hardline policy and making the connection between this and the long overdue compassion for refugees waiting in camps.

 

[drsmith]

Real policy or not, all they need to do is resettle the first boatload that comes through and thus show that they will do it; it will stop people coming through, especially the "economic" refugees.

If the people smugglers follow Australian politics as part of their market research, they will realise that Kevin Rudd's so-called PNG policy is an absolute repudiation of Labor's ideological position and directly of Kevin Rudd's ideological position. They themselves might decide to temporarily back off during the upcoming domestic election campaign.

Resettling that first boatload was the first hurdle Julia Gillard's Malaysian solution failed to clear.

While Kevin Rudd's PNG solution sounds good in principal, it's rushed and will no doubt run into issues as Labor's other rushed policies have. One of these issues is the cost. Labor either haven't worked it out, are too frightened to say or most likely, both. Logistics could well be in a similar situation. Manus Island will not be able to accommodate 600 before January 2014, let alone 3000.

There's also not enough in the way of domestic policy adjustment to deter arrivals by boat. For these reasons, I feel it is just another Labor short term political fix.

 

[drsmith]

You have to admit its better than the Liberal plan. It will stop the boats like a brick wall.

And saying its betraying Labor principles is a furphy. Gillard completely changed her tactics to pretty much match the Libs but ineffectively. So it is really a continuation of Labor policy. The Greens hate it but their votes will flow to Labor anyway.

Didn't make the front page on the Melbourne Herald Sun, instead they attacked Rudd on the car tax.

In relation to Labor's principals, it was Kevin Rudd that changed the Howard Government's border protection laws. While Julia Gillard made matters worse through her alliance with the Greens, it was Kevin Rudd's initial policy changes that restarted the boat problem.

The problem with Labor's car tax changes is not the principal in modification in this area, but their rushed nature and lack of consultation. It's similar to their live cattle export suspension to Indonesia under Julia Gillard. Labor does not consider at all the wider economic implications at all when this is at odds with their short term political objectives. In that context of governing, they have no principals.

 

[drsmith]

Does Labor's bold new PNG asylum policy require legislation ?

Mr Carr has declared a re-elected Labor government would be prepared to legislate its new asylum-seeker solution in preparation for a possible High Court challenge.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ylum-seeker-deal/story-fn59nqld-1226682721212

??

 

[sptrawler]

Does Labor's bold new PNG asylum policy require legislation ?



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ylum-seeker-deal/story-fn59nqld-1226682721212

??

Well I can't see how they can say 'all' will be sent to PNG, when facilities aren't available to house them. eek

It sounds like pi$$ and wind to me but no doubt,explod and syd will be able to explain it.

I would say the influx will increase, to sink this policy, how does that 'float your boat'.lol

 

[sptrawler]

As I thought, it looks like captain chaos is back, half baked half ar$ed policy on the run.IMO

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...er-deal-with-png/story-fnho52jo-1226682806472

Might be wrong, but it sounds like swiss cheese.lol

 

[Calliope]

As I thought, it looks like captain chaos is back, half baked half ar$ed policy on the run.IMO

Downer has a better, simpler solution;

The Howard government minister says while the Papua New Guinea solution "is better than the nothing it replaces", it would have been better for the deal to have been done with Indonesia.

"The simplest deal of all would be to agree with the Indonesians that we will fly back every single person who arrives here by boat from their country," Mr Downer said on Monday in his column in The Advertiser.

"In exchange, we will accept on a one-for-one basis UN approved refugees in Indonesia."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/br...isky-says-downer/story-fni0xqi4-1226682991554

 

[drsmith]

You know it's in trouble when the ABC starts turning negative,

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-...eker-plan-will-add-to-png27s-problems/4834718

 

[noco]

You know it's in trouble when the ABC starts turning negative,

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-...eker-plan-will-add-to-png27s-problems/4834718

It is another Labor Party mess in the making.

PNG will not take those without refugee status and that will also be limited to about 300.

No women and children will be sent to Manus so where will they go?

PNG will most likely not accept Muslims as they are Christian country.

But nevertheless they are happy to accept the $ carrot dangled in front of them and in the meantime Rudd thinks he can gain votes at tax payers expense.

WHAT A JERK HE IS.!!!!!!!!!!



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...es-left-in-limbo/story-fn9hm1gu-1226682842434

 

[drsmith]

9 boats carrying 890 passengers to the week ending Friday July 19. This compares to no boats for the same period last year.

The two additional boats carrying 98 passengers that have arrived over the weekend are after the cut-off date for the so-called PNG solution.

19/07/2013 Border Protection Command assists vessel
18/07/2013 Border Protection Command assists vessel
18/07/2013 Border Protection Command assists vessel
16/07/2013 Border Protection Command assists vessel
16/07/2013 Border Protection Command intercepts vessel
15/07/2013 Border Protection Command intercepts vessel
14/07/2013 Border Protection Command assists vessel
14/07/2013 Border Protection Command assists vessel
14/07/2013 Border Protection Command intercepts vessel

http://www.jasonclare.com.au/media/portfolio-releases/home-affairs-and-justice-releases.html

 

[banco]

Downer has a better, simpler solution;



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/br...isky-says-downer/story-fni0xqi4-1226682991554

The Indonesians don't seem to be overly concerned with the number of wanna be refugees in the country so why would they sign up to that?