Israel in the Gaza Strip

[cuttlefish]

You are very emotional tonight.

Well its an emotional issue, and a topic I've tried to avoid posting in.

Go back through the thread and there is plenty of linked info. It is also common knowledge. If it is a one sided conflict then who is fighting themselves?

There was plenty of 'linked info' about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. And it was also 'common knowledge' (what kind of a supporting argument is that?!?). But in the end it turned out that it was all hyped up BS. It aggravates me to be seeing the same 'logic' being used to justify this situation.

Innocent Palestinians are being killed in large numbers at the moment at the hands of israeli actions. That is a 100% fact.

 

[lucas]

There was plenty of 'linked info' about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. And it was also 'common knowledge' (what kind of a supporting argument is that?!?). But in the end it turned out that it was all hyped up BS.

There is far greater evidence to support the position that it was simply faulty intelligence. But then there is less to get fired up about...

 

[cuttlefish]

There is far greater evidence to support the position that it was simply faulty intelligence. But then there is less to get fired up about...

Regardless it was erroneous information and a lot of people died as a result of it, thus a healthy level of skepticism towards 'facts' that are 'common knowledge' is appropriate.

 

[lucas]

Erroneous information is just that. If you want guarantees about every aspect of life, choose another planet. The point is **** happens. You might have chosen not to act on the "erroneous" advice; Bush and Tony Blair did. Bush has plenty to answer for, but acting on advice which later turns out to be faulty is the way the cards fall from time to time. Get over it.

 

[sinner]

Bush has plenty to answer for, but acting on advice which later turns out to be faulty is the way the cards fall from time to time. Get over it.

What a load of tripe.

Why should I trust Bush claims that he was acting on someone elses advice when it seems pretty blatant and obvious that his actions were largely of his own volition.

 

[lucas]

Then don't trust him. That's your entitlement in a democracy. But you show your bias when you don't include Blair in your sentence, too. He also agonised over the decision, but it's less difficult to be a sheep and hate Bush because you are in easy company. For the record, I think Bush's presidency mostly stank. But this is off-topic.

 

[cuttlefish]

Erroneous information is just that. If you want guarantees about every aspect of life, choose another planet. The point is **** happens. You might have chosen not to act on the "erroneous" advice; Bush and Tony Blair did. Bush has plenty to answer for, but acting on advice which later turns out to be faulty is the way the cards fall from time to time. Get over it.

Thats easy to say when you haven't lost your mother, father, sister, brother, son, daughter, home, business, livelihood etc. to a US bombing raid.

I prefer to learn from the mistake. (the mistake of believing 'US intelligence' and media 'truths').

 

[lucas]

Sorry, cuttlefish, but I don't think you have learnt anything. You already knew, apparently, and are merely confirming your bias.

 

[cuttlefish]

You already knew, apparently, and are merely confirming your bias.

You're making assumptions here.

Anyway I think we're heading way off topic so I'll bow out at this point.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

There was plenty of 'linked info' about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. And it was also 'common knowledge' (what kind of a supporting argument is that?!?). But in the end it turned out that it was all hyped up BS. It aggravates me to be seeing the same 'logic' being used to justify this situation.

Innocent Palestinians are being killed in large numbers at the moment at the hands of israeli actions. That is a 100% fact.

Complete crap and irrelevant to the discussion about GAZA and HAMAS which is different factually and operationally.

People are getting killed at the hands of Hamas.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=zmXXUOs27lI&NR=1

 

[Happy]

Erroneous information is just that. If you want guarantees about every aspect of life, choose another planet. The point is **** happens. You might have chosen not to act on the "erroneous" advice; Bush and Tony Blair did. Bush has plenty to answer for, but acting on advice which later turns out to be faulty is the way the cards fall from time to time. Get over it.

Another possibility is that weapons were moved, there was some information filtering through.
Inspections were delayed for weeks, then when allowed, top soil was moved some traces of something were picked up and the game continued.
Coalition of willing was simply outsmared.

Here too, Hamas rocket goes to Israel hits target and makes some damage, when Israel rocket comes back to place where the attack come from, civilian children and women are killed.
Very smart for propaganda purposes.

Unless not true, then it puts Israel in worse picture.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

You're making assumptions here.

Anyway I think we're heading way off topic so I'll bow out at this point.

And here is the knockout punch:



Take the rose coloured glasses off.

 

[cuttlefish]

Take the rose coloured glasses off.

Ok fair points made. I see a lot of problems on both sides - there has been provocative behaviour from the Israeli's as well over the years through their settlement developments and military activities - sadly its unlikely to ever be resolved. (not in our lifetime anyway).

 

[lucas]

A few pages ago, we were being exhorted to believe "human shields" was Israeli propaganda. Can we have our money back, please?

 

[disarray]

Considering that Israeli attacks are killing hundreds of women and children (920 deaths, 4200 casualties according to UN reports) I find it pretty easy to see why the propoganda you are pushing isn't being swallowed.

in the last week islamic jihadists have committed 39 terror attacks, killed 219 people and critically injured 332. where's the outrage for this endless stream of allah sanctioned murder?

Plus of course that the last lot of serious propoganda used to justify mass murder in the middle east was the Iraq WMD story which turned out to be a crock of sh*te.

no it didn't. iraq DID have wmd, iraq DID use them on occassion, and iraq shipped them off to syria who now possess them (and presumably have them pointed at israel)

Meanwhile there have been 13 Israeli soldiers killed.

are their lives worth less?

i agree with lucas that israel is the front line in the battle between islamism and western democracy. i'm with israel because the alternative is a return to the barbarity of the middle ages.

 

[Agentm]

Perhaps Wayne they should watch this video to see what was really happening with Hamas before the start of the Gaza offensive:



And it seems we have at least one Hamas sympathiser on these forums. that continually avoids the real material being presented.

snake

why are you trolling the youtube sites and placing absolute garbage like this post the other day. its complete conjecture and laughable..

i dont like your agenda myself, and i think anyone seeing that "hamas kiling fields" youtube flick can see straight through it.

i looked at every aspect of this garbage and i agree with many who think this type of misinformation does no one any good.

imho you need to research this stuff a little before placing very serious propaganda around the place, your simply a puppet as far as i am concerned and lose cred big time on this one..

poor show

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

A few pages ago, we were being exhorted to believe "human shields" was Israeli propaganda. Can we have our money back, please?

Lucas,
All lefties of extreme bent will deny until it hits them in the face - usually it's too late at that stage, especially in the past. Thanks to youtube and technology we can hit them in the face before it is too late. Perhaps they could challenge their own thinking a bit and see what it is others are clearly stating to be factual and concerned about. But as usual they get caught up in emotion and think people are just going off with intolerance and racism and actually support who they inherently despise without knowing. Shame. Hang your heads in shame.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

snake

why are you trolling the youtube sites and placing absolute garbage like this post the other day. its complete conjecture and laughable..

i dont like your agenda myself, and i think anyone seeing that "hamas kiling fields" youtube flick can see straight through it.

i looked at every aspect of this garbage and i agree with many who think this type of misinformation does no one any good.

imho you need to research this stuff a little before placing very serious propaganda around the place, your simply a puppet as far as i am concerned and lose cred big time on this one..

poor show

The video you have talked about showed what Hamas was doing within Gaza. Stopping a wedding because they played music and beat the groom up. The commentary was what it was but the camera doesn't lie. I am happy to see something that can prove the opposite. If you have anything serious to add to the discussion I am happy to read or watch.
Cheers..

 

[mayk]

straight from the horse's mouth:

 

[cuttlefish]

Lucas,
All lefties of extreme bent will deny until it hits them in the face - usually it's too late at that stage, especially in the past. Thanks to youtube and technology we can hit them in the face before it is too late. Perhaps they could challenge their own thinking a bit and see what it is others are clearly stating to be factual and concerned about. But as usual they get caught up in emotion and think people are just going off with intolerance and racism and actually support who they inherently despise without knowing. Shame. Hang your heads in shame.

Geez what a pile of stereotypical tripe. Anybody with an opposing viewpoint is an 'extreme leftie' ?!? Mate I'm not the one wasting my days searching the web looking for anything to feed my fear of "evil terrorists".

A few pages ago, we were being exhorted to believe "human shields" was Israeli propaganda. Can we have our money back, please?

I don't know what to make of the second video about Human Shields - I don't speak Arabic - so I don't know the truth of this or otherwise.

But I'll give you a partial refund - I realised I may have been coming across as a strong supporter of the Palestinians while I know of course they carry out acts of aggression against the Israeli's, as shown in the video of them launching the rocket attacks, and I don't condone this either.

My main beef is that I am opposed to the course of action Israel is taking at the moment which will only cause more misery and fuel the fire further. So I certainly don't see Israel as having the moral high ground.

Its just a pointless conflict which both sides seem willing to continue with ad nauseum.