Israel in the Gaza Strip

[Sean K]

Religion is just used as a tool to motivate people to fight.

Enlightened.

 

[slim pickins]

slim, I agree with parts of your argument. It doesn't absolve Israel, but there is a certain logic in arguing that way. By doing so, you are led to the conclusion that people do NOT always have the "right" to resist, and I think that is true.

Dopey analogy, but you should get my small point: if a big Grizzly Bear comes along and steals your family's picnic food, do you have the right to chuck yonnies at it until it lashes out and kills your wife and kids.

How responsible for their deaths are you? I think that is the point or similar that you are making, right?

you have a right to chuck yonnies.... if you hate your wife and kids

responsibility in australian law comes from "forseeability". and its common sense. i can reasonably forsee that yonnies will result in their deaths.

as i can forsee much more suffering for the palestinians under their yonnie chucking leaders.

 

[slim pickins]

Nearly all conflicts on this earth are based on Land and resources. Religion is just used as a tool to motivate people to fight.

yeah... i think so.

the irony in all this is that australia actually offered the jews a homeland near the kimberlys or somewhere and the jews refused it.

russia also, but it didnt offer it... it just established it for them. built jewish schools, synagoues, filled libraries with jewish literature and gave them free tickets to move there. even staretd a daily newspaper in yiddish for them to read. many moved there initially but left for isarael in 1990.

its now full of russians and a few tatars. so its funny how some poeple will fight to the death for a patch of land and others just give patches of land to anyone that comes along.

its still called "jewish autonomous oblast" and its 30% larger then israel.

 

[Uncle Barry]

The UN, LoN's, offered a place called Kenya in Africa to the jews but they didn't want it,.

 

[rowie]

you have a right to chuck yonnies.... if you hate your wife and kids

responsibility in australian law comes from "forseeability". and its common sense. i can reasonably forsee that yonnies will result in their deaths.

as i can forsee much more suffering for the palestinians under their yonnie chucking leaders.

The logic to this is amazing - Someone illegally takes your property leaving you to live in slums. You object to this unlawful act by voicing your opinion. It is brought before the courts where the courts (the UN which cant really enforce anything) deem this illegal act a crime and rules that the property be returned. The property is not returned, the occupier has no intention to return it. You then declare that you will fight to get the property back yourself. The occupier (who is far stronger than you) refuses to compromise and any hint of resistance is smashed.

So amidst this scenario, you can actually turn the tables completely around and say that the ones 'chucking the yonnies' are at fault because they had forseeability to see that their resistance will lead to the criminals to start with further crushing them into oblivion. So it is not the criminals fault but those who resist the criminal acts that are at fault because they know that resistance would lead to further punishment. The logic is quite amazing fellas.

This kind of logic justifies further criminal acts in future dont you think? If we just roll over and accept criminal acts because they are carried out by 'crazy bears' (who mind you are intelligent humans and not crazy animals) then does that not pave the way for more powerful criminals to carry out these acts? So if you are powerful enough, you can get away with any crime? This is a mafia mindset. Resistance to all forms crimes is a must to ensure that these crimes are not perpetuated. The form of resistance is another topic altogether. But resistance is totally necessary all the time!

 

[lucas]

You are right, rowie. Life sucks. But life without your wife and kids sucks more. Or should.

 

[rowie]

slim, I agree with parts of your argument. It doesn't absolve Israel, but there is a certain logic in arguing that way. By doing so, you are led to the conclusion that people do NOT always have the "right" to resist, and I think that is true.

Dopey analogy, but you should get my small point: if a big Grizzly Bear comes along and steals your family's picnic food, do you have the right to chuck yonnies at it until it lashes out and kills your wife and kids.

How responsible for their deaths are you? I think that is the point or similar that you are making, right?

Everyone has a right to resist any injustice or crime perpetuated on them. Whether you want to or not for self preservation purposes is another question altogether.

 

[rowie]

You are right, rowie. Life sucks. But life without your wife and kids sucks more. Or should.

Life with your wife and kids in poverty with no hope of any future for your kids kids and you just turning around bending over and copping it sucks even more. May as well be dead living in complete humiliation and without freedom and without hopes to give your children a better life. That sucks big time in my mind.

 

[lucas]

That, rowie, is where we begin to engage in realities instead of rights.

I think life sucks because of Channel 10, the menopause, road taxes, (some) P-plate drivers, celebrity media attention, Darfur, the Anglican Church, the Catholic Church, Islam, the Middle East etc. etc. etc. Not much I can do about them.

Take up arms? Some of the things I mentioned could conceivably kill me too. Should you care? Why?

 

[Uncle Barry]

"Life with your wife and kids in poverty with no hope of any future for your kids kids and you just turning around bending over and copping it sucks even more. May as well be dead living in complete humiliation and without freedom and without hopes to give your children a better life"


And does anybody wonder why some people cover themselves with bombs, ANY MORE, when all hope is lost, then life is lost, is of no value.

 

[Macquack]

kennas, if i take something form you and you attack me.... and i beat the living crap out of you.... again and again and again. you keep attackign me for the next 60 years, and you keep getting beaten every time. and then you realise... wow... in the last 60 years i could have done sooo much with my life. i could even have bought the thing you have taken from me 5 times over. but no.... you want that thing i have taken from you. and you try attacking me again.. and i beat you again. is that a course of action you would be happy to continue? if so..... i think you may be useful to the palestinian leadership

Slim pickins, its called upholding a "principle".

One thing I would say is the "Palestinian bashers" lack empathy and the ability to place themselves in other peoples shoes.

Your statement includes a good point, in that the Palestinians have been hammered by Israel for over 60 years, so why would the slaughter of a thousand more stop Hamas from retaliating.

If Israel has the right to slaughter innocent civilians in the quest to protect their borders, then the Palestinians have the right to maintain the rage and continue the fight.

 

[Happy]

Looks that suspension of hostilities is in sight, at least that is what Israel says, so fingers crossed that Palestinian side is going to want that too.

 

[lucas]

Really? I heard that we are entering stage 3 and that Omert was saying "fight to the bitter end".

Ah! The media - the great informer...

 

[lucky milo]

Why when the Palestinians fight back with any means they have at their disposal they call it "Terrorism" but if an Israeli jet drops a bomb on a house and wipes out 10 kids that's called a "military operation"???? maybe its because the Americans own the media??? Israel does have a right to defend itself but they hardly have been sticking to military targets?

 

[fringedweller1]

At least 700 Palestinians have died in the conflict and 3,000 have been wounded,

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aBZS1LMKsjgE&refer=home

israel, keep going you will kill everybody and then you can expand the size of the state of isreal........
more land, equals more space to fill with jews, more jews together, will inturn require more land space, which country is next ?

WHILE
the World watches and does nothing !

sick, bloody sick World we live in !

Lets end the problem once and for all NUKE em all !!!!
at least we have then done something..........

In all of nature the strongest survive, if lucky enough to have the biggest and best weapons then you will overcome most obstancles.

But just remember what goes around comes around

Look back in time, eygptians en-slaved the Jews, The jew's stole palestine, )hilter murdered jews, jews still opress muslims in gaza .........so whats next
Arabs wipe out jews.......

(just for those who are not aware MOSES led the JEWS into the valley of the palestines. who were living thier peacefully)

I am not on the Arabs side nor the Jewish side............both places are hell holes and basically if wasn't for the religion aspect would be useless...

all this talk is mute anyway as Isaral doesn't have big enough go-nads to really go for full out invasion.

It is quite simple----------Invade and the arab world wipes out jews
I hoping they will do it, like i said in a previous post :

Just another thought, do really think even though I occupy my little piece if my neighbour kept throwing rocks over my fence I would throw boulders back. And if that didn’t stop him wouldn’t i go over their and bash the crap out of him.

Then he would call in his mates to teach me a lesson or two...

It Sounds like somewhere else too doesnt it------ Israel and Gaza or Cronulla and or Punchbowl

 

[gordon2007]

maybe its because the Americans own the media???

America hardly owns the media over there. Ever hear of al jazeera (spelling?). I've said this in other threads, america is guilty of a lot of things, but you cannot blame all of the worlds problems on america.

I'm not saying america isn't involved in this conflict, clearly their they have a strong backing. But as far as the media, I don't see they have a monopoly on it in this case.

 

[lucas]

gordon2007, I increasingly tend towards your balanced viewpoints.

The world is awash in taking sides based on biased information (Hey! Me too! I watch the news - only I don't believe either side much).

fringedweller1 - yeah - I mean yeah - who hasn't thought like that? (Barring the anti-semitism...) but I notice you reference Uncle Barry.

You want THAT to inform you for the rest of your life? Please say no...

 

[lucas]

Everyone has a right to resist any injustice or crime perpetuated on them. Whether you want to or not for self preservation purposes is another question altogether.

Cool, perhaps - like you have a right to any form of bad behaviour...suicide? I thought your hero said no, but why visit it on me - or your kids?

 

[rowie]

Cool, perhaps - like you have a right to any form of bad behaviour...suicide? I thought your hero said no, but why visit it on me - or your kids?

Lucas, it is very simple, if someone does you wrong, you owe it to yourself to stand up for yourself. Perhaps your dad taught you to stand up for yourself in the school yard against a bully who may have been bigger than u. Same principle, why is this concept so hard for you to grasp? If there is more at stake, then obviously the stakes increase, like your life. I am not talking about disliking the media, religions etc. because in this instance you are fighting for your life and the future of your children. There is alot more at stake. Hope you understand this and dont come back with irrelevant topics such as suicide etc. It is about standing up for yourself and your principles, and sometimes the price is your life because the alternative to not standing up is worst than death itself.

 

[lucas]

you are a nice guy, but it is not simple.

Rid yourself of all religion (doesn't mean hate those still in need of help).

Be balanced - as I have tried to be (and failed obviously, but I try...)

And never - ever - ask for retribution.