War threat in Ukraine

[3 hound]

How was the invasion not a success?

The USA invaded Afghanistan to dismantle Al Qaeda and topple the Taliban government, the Taliban were dislodged out of the government and capital within weeks.

It wasn’t until 20 years after the invasion that the USA left and the Taliban retook power.

You are confusing a successful invasion and occupation with being able to install a successful puppet government to rule when you leave?

I want you to be my boss, I will serve you the most expensive bloody pile of poo and you will think it's Cavia.

 

[3 hound]

That was a reply to Dona ferntas above, she may have you on ignore.

Gotcha.

 

[againsthegrain]

Yeah I know, I think 3 were fired at USA aircraft, but they didn’t have shipments of 100’s and 1000’s of them coming in like a conveyor belt.

The Taliban also had fighter jets, but their pilots bailed when USA declared war, they didn’t want to go up against the USA airforce with only 6 light fighters.

They believed maverick and iceman still flew them

 

[Dona Ferentes]

That was a reply to Dona ferntas above, she may have you on ignore.

thx, VC. Well read. Just had a look at the comment. And she's back on Ignore.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

That was a reply to Dona ferntas above, she may have you on ignore.

Can you let da hound know I'll take her off ignore and relay any messages to the many others who have her on ignore, while she is off my ignore.

Seeing' as it's Easter.

Da hound is a lady, and ladies need respeck.

gg

 

[Value Collector]

I want you to be my boss, I will serve you the most expensive bloody pile of poo and you will think it's Cavia.

Look, the USA occupied Afghanistan and held its capital for 20 years, if you don’t think that shows that their invasion was successful then I don’t know what does.

I didn’t say that the over all rebuilding of Afghanistan and installation of a friendly puppet government was successful, obviously it wasn’t, but that’s a different subject to the initial invasion.

To be honest I don’t think any country would be successful at that, just like long term Russia won’t be successful in the Ukraine, unless they commit to a full blown occupation for decades.

Some of the US soldiers that served on that final US mission in Afghanistan weren’t even born when the initial invasion happened, I think that shows how long the USA held the ground there, but obviously they can’t stay for ever, and things will revert back once they go.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

long term Russia won’t be successful in the Ukraine, unless they commit to a full blown occupation for decades.

Well, they started with Catherine the Great, so there's some form

 

[3 hound]

Look, the USA occupied Afghanistan and held it capital for 20 years, if you don’t think that shows that their invasion was successful then I don’t know what does.

I didn’t say that the over all rebuilding of Afghanistan and installation of a friendly puppet government was successful, obviously it wasn’t, but that’s a different subject to the initial invasion.

Do be honest I don’t think any country would be successful at that, just like long term Russia won’t be successful in the Ukraine, unless they commit to a full blown occupation for decades.

Only an inhuman psychopath directly profiting from the war budget could calculate that the Afghanistan war was a success. Then on your next breath claiming a small increase in the cost of living due to the Ukraine war is a small sacrifice compared to the suffering of the Ukraine people. You are a fraud and a hypocrite.

 

[Value Collector]

Only an inhuman psychopath directly profiting from the war budget could calculate that the Afghanistan war was a success. Then on your next breath claiming a small increase in the cost of living due to the Ukraine war is a small sacrifice compared to the suffering of the Ukraine people. You are a fraud and a hypocrite.

I didn’t say the Afghan war was a success, I said the invasion was a success, I think you have trouble understanding nuance.

Mate, I had two friends die in Afghanistan, another lost an arm, part of his hand and some of his eye sight, and several others suffer severe injuries, not to mention the mental health issues, I believe I know what suffering war brings.

 

[3 hound]

didn’t say the Afghan war was a success, I said the invasion was a success,

By that logic, on average WWII was a resounding success for Hitler and the German people.

 

[Value Collector]

By that logic, on average WWII was a resounding success for Hitler and the German people.

I am beginning to see why you struggle so much you don’t seem to be able to comprehend simple concepts.

If you want to use WW2 as an example, then Yes almost all military historians would agree that Germany’s initial invasion was a massive success, they smashed the French and allied forces and took control of France.

Understanding that this is in no way a claim that the eventual outcome or the war in general was a “resounding success for hitler and the German people” takes a big more brain power than I believe you have though.

You have to understand that Wars are long processes with multiple stages, you can win a battle but lose the war so to speak, saying the initial invasion of Afghanistan was successful is not a claim that the war in general had a perfect outcome, it’s just an admission that some stages of the process were successful and others weren’t (mainly the final step of rebuilding the government)

 

[3 hound]

I am beginning to see why you struggle so much you don’t seem to be able to comprehend simple concepts.

If you want to use WW2 as an example, then Yes almost all military historians would agree that Germany’s initial invasion was a massive success, they smashed the French and allied forces and took control of France.

Understanding that this is in no way a claim that the eventual outcome or the war in general was a “resounding success for hitler and the German people” takes a big more brain power than I believe you have though.

You have to understand that Wars are long processes with multiple stages, you can win a battle but lose the war so to speak, saying the initial invasion of Afghanistan was successful is not a claim that the war in general had a perfect outcome, it’s just an admission that some stages of the process were successful and other weren’t (mainly the final step of rebuilding the government)

I think your level of nuance is weasel wording, for what motivation you would do that I neither know or care.

But ok here you go, winning a specific battle is not winning the war - thank you captain obvious you totally got me. I'm stupid and didn't get the "nuance".

 

[againsthegrain]

I think the biggest downfall of Afghanistan was the locals didn't have the heart to fight Taliban. Americans trained them, gave weapons and as soon as they left and Taliban came they all surrendered and didn't want to fight the Talibs. This is really out of American's hands.
Then you look at Ukraine and how much heart they have, with the same support from Usa they are taking on a much bigger aggressor.

 

[Value Collector]

I think your level of nuance is weasel wording, for what motivation you would do that I neither know or care.

But ok here you go, winning a specific battle is not winning the war - thank you captain obvious you totally got me. I'm stupid and didn't get the "nuance".

Look, we are discussing the invasion of Ukraine, and whether it’s successful, comparing it to the initial invasion of Afghanistan or Iraq obviously shows that the USA performed a better during the invasion phase because in both situations the USA ended up capturing their targets and from there entered into long occupations.

As I said you were just tripped up because you thought I was trying to say the Entire Afghan war was a success so went off on a tangent, which of course I would not ever say the entire war was successful.

In future just try to actually read the words people write, and try to understand what they are actually saying.

Eg, if some one says “invasion” especially “initial invasion” they are obviously not talking about the entire campaign, they are talking just about the “initial invasion”.

I don’t know, maybe I just have more military experience than you, so these differences are more easily understood by me than you.

 

[Value Collector]

I think the biggest downfall of Afghanistan was the locals didn't have the heart to fight Taliban. Americans trained them, gave weapons and as soon as they left and Taliban came they all surrendered and didn't want to fight the Talibs. This is really out of American's hands.
Then you look at Ukraine and how much heart they have, with the same support from Usa they are taking on a much bigger aggressor.

Exactly, the USA could only do so much, as soon as any foreign army withdraws from anywhere the country will always revert back to a state that the locals decide.

 

[3 hound]

Look, we are discussing the invasion of Ukraine, and whether it’s successful, comparing it to the initial invasion of Afghanistan or Iraq obviously shows that the USA performed a better during the invasion phase because in both situations the USA ended up capturing their targets and from there entered into long occupations.

As I said you were just tripped up because you thought I was trying to say the Entire Afghan war was a success so went off on a tangent, which of course I would not ever say the entire war was successful.

In future just try to actually read the words people write, and try to understand what they are actually saying.

Eg, if some one says “invasion” especially “initial invasion” they are obviously not talking about the entire campaign, they are talking just about the “initial invasion”.

I don’t know, maybe I just have more military experience than you, so these differences are more easily understood by me than you.

My military experience = 0.

I was put in charge of a bunch of outright crazy suicidal vets more than twice my age when I was a teenager contracting on the last wild cattle runs before they got turned into national parks and indigenous properties in the gulf & Cape country. They taught me everyone in a war loses and made me promise to never join up no matter what I get told. Kinda glad now I listened and never joined up, altho I already had the firearms and bush experience built in.

 

[Value Collector]

My military experience = 0.

I was put in charge of a bunch of outright crazy suicidal vets more than twice my age when I was a teenager contracting on the last wild cattle runs before they got turned into national parks and indigenous properties in the gulf & Cape country. They taught me everyone in a war loses and made me promise to never join up no matter what I get told. Kinda glad now I listened and never joined up, altho I already had the firearms and bush experience built in.

I 100% agree, war causes pain for all involved, we are far better trading with each other than fighting, if you had been around here for a while longer and actually understood where I am coming from, you would know I am almost a pacifist these days, (under my avatar picture I actually have the quote “have courage and be kind” that’s something I live by.

In future before you fly off the handle calling people psychopaths just try to actually read their posts and understand what it is exactly they are saying, rather than assume that they are saying something else.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I 100% agree, war causes pain for all involved, we are far better trading with each other than fighting, if you had been around here for a while longer and actually understood where I am coming from, you would know I am almost a pacifist these days, (under my avatar picture I actually have the quote “have courage and be kind” that’s something I live by.

In future before you fly off the handle calling people psychopaths just try to actually read their posts and understand what it is exactly they are saying, rather than assume that they are saying something else.

Who was this directed at?

I've never had to block so many people on ASF, so I miss many posts in a thread.

Does it bark?

War is awful and many who have never seen it's effects are often the most warry.

Don't let any trolls nor mongrels get you down @Value Collector

gg

 

[Value Collector]

Who was this directed at?

I've never had to block so many people on ASF, so I miss many posts in a thread.

Does it bark?

War is awful and many who have never seen it's effects are often the most warry.

Don't let any trolls nor mongrels get you down @Value Collector

gg

It was directed at 3hound,

he seems to think that me saying that the USA’s initial Invasion of Afghanistan was more successful than Russia’s Ukrainian Invasion means that I am (in his words) “an inhuman psychopath directly profiting from the war”.

I think I am going to block him for a while, I love debating different ideas, but his level of cynicism is a drag.

 

[3 hound]

Directed at 3hound.

Is there supposed to be something posted here other than my user name, it's blank to me??

@Value Collector