The Australian Greens party

[bellenuit]

Where does it say that all people are able/allowed to come here in order to have equal rights? Seems to me the interpretation is either all people in all places should have equal rights, or all people who are living here should have equal rights. That doesn't mean open borders. It does mean equal criteria for entry.

Specifically again (sorry the numbering got screwed up during copy and paste):

1. All people — regardless of culture, ethnicity, religion, language, place of birth or citizenship status — should have equal rights and the right to participate equally in social, economic and cultural life.

If that was written into Australian Law, then anyone who has gained entry into Australia by any means, would be entitled to all the rights of anyone else living here. There is no mention of criteria for entry.

Do The Greens state anywhere what their criteria are for entry into Australia. They certainly have shown that they regard anyone who has attempted to reach Australia should be assisted in reaching Australia, not sent back or held in offshore detention.

Taking that statement literally could be a disaster for Australia. The fact that you might attribute "conditions" to it that are not stated anywhere has no bearing. If The Greens do think that the statement is conditional, then they should expressly state what those conditions are due to the gravity of the statement when taken at face value. However, their actions and statements in regards to boat arrivals suggest that they do believe in open borders.

 

[SirRumpole]

Do The Greens state anywhere what their criteria are for entry into Australia. They certainly have shown that they regard anyone who has attempted to reach Australia should be assisted in reaching Australia, not sent back or held in offshore detention.

I think permanent visas should be cancelled.

5 year visas that are reviewed after expiration, and if you are on welfare for more than 6 months in that period or have committed a crime then you are out.

Maybe after 20 years people can stay.

 

[explod]

Plod, do you lean to the "tree tories" or the "communists"?

I regard myself as a Socialist but seek a more level playing field for the common people.

However, as in all parties there is a wide mix from tree huggers, mardi gra assemblers and et al. However most are school teachers, nurses and emergency service personnel who have experienced the cutting edge.

 

[bellenuit]

Following on from my previous post, looking at The Greens refugee policy it would appear that almost everyone arriving in Australia by any means would have grounds for claiming refugee status, but even so, the statement under discussion does not require having refugee status to avail of full rights.

Some of their policies regarding refugees (numbering not correct):

1. Access to Australia’s migration programs, including the family migration program, to not discriminate on the basis of economic circumstances
2. The elimination of mandatory and indefinite detention, and the abolition of offshore processing (where a person seeking asylum, refugee or special category visa holder is returned from Australian territory to another nation to be assessed) and other forms of punitive or discriminatory treatment.
3. Once initial health, security and identity checks are completed within a maximum of seven days, people seeking asylum who arrive without a valid visa or travel documents to be accommodated in the community, unless otherwise ordered by a court, with periodic judicial review thereafter.
4. All people found to be refugees, but given negative security assessments, to be given the reasons for such assessment, access to legal representation and the opportunity to challenge this in the appropriate forum. They are only to be detained as individually required by court order, with periodic judicial review
5. Australia to recognise people escaping gender violence and violence on the basis of sexual orientation, gender identity or intersex status, as refugees belonging to a ‘particular social group’ under the 1951 Convention relating to the Status of Refugees and the 1967 Protocol relating to the Status of Refugees.

The wording of their full refugee status is so wishy washy that it is hard to see how anyone could be proved not to be a refugee.

 

[bellenuit]

However most are school teachers, nurses and emergency service personnel who have experienced the cutting edge.

Experienced the cutting edge or are just plain stupid?

I have a friend who is a professor and whose wife is a nurse and both are Greens. They swore black and blue that the refugees on Manus Island are held 24/7 in detention and not allowed out. I explained that they are allowed out and the kids attend local schools and many of the adults have in fact set up businesses on the island or are otherwise gainfully employed. This is not secret knowledge but in fact widely known. As proof of his view, he said that he had a friend who was a doctor and worked on the island and that he would vouch for the fact that they are in 24/7 detention. Greens just don't want to know.

A few weeks back on one of the ABC's talkback radio channels, some listener also stated that the refugees are in 24/7 detention and this was torture. When another listener stated the facts regarding those there being free to roam and work on the island, the ABC compere acknowledged that to be correct, but then added "the fact that they cannot join the rest of their family is a form of torture".

 

[explod]

Experienced the cutting edge or are just plain stupid?

I have a friend who is a professor and whose wife is a nurse and both are Greens. They swore black and blue that the refugees on Manus Island are held 24/7 in detention and not allowed out. I explained that they are allowed out and the kids attend local schools and many of the adults have in fact set up businesses on the island or are otherwise gainfully employed. This is not secret knowledge but in fact widely known. As proof of his view, he said that he had a friend who was a doctor and worked on the island and that he would vouch for the fact that they are in 24/7 detention. Greens just don't want to know.

A few weeks back on one of the ABC's talkback radio channels, some listener also stated that the refugees are in 24/7 detention and this was torture. When another listener stated the facts regarding those there being free to roam and work on the island, the ABC compere acknowledged that to be correct, but then added "the fact that they cannot join the rest of their family is a form of torture".

So I take you have been there to see that for yourself?

 

[bellenuit]

So I take you have been there to see that for yourself?

I haven't seen for myself, but that is irrelevant. It has been reported by many different sources that many have jobs and businesses on the island. There is no denial of that by The Greens, ABC or SBS, but often there is omission to state it when it is relevant. Undoubtably there is razor wire on some fences on the island, but filming a child on the other side of a razor wired fence while not putting the scene in context, though not lying, is highly misleading. Unfortunately many will gullibly take the bait.

Have you been on Manus? If so, can you confirm or deny whether those there (apart form perhaps a few dangerous detainees) are allowed to roam and work outside their accomodation centres. If not, do you believe that to be the case and if not, what is your source for that belief?

 

[explod]

I haven't seen for myself, but that is irrelevant. It has been reported by many different sources that many have jobs and businesses on the island. There is no denial of that by The Greens, ABC or SBS, but often there is omission to state it when it is relevant. Undoubtably there is razor wire on some fences on the island, but filming a child on the other side of a razor wired fence while not putting the scene in context, though not lying, is highly misleading. Unfortunately many will gullibly take the bait.

Have you been on Manus? If so, can you confirm or deny whether those there (apart form perhaps a few dangerous detainees) are allowed to roam and work outside their accomodation centres. If not, do you believe that to be the case and if not, what is your source for that belief?

No I have not and this really has little overall to do with the Greens in my view The press not only has little to do with us but take every opportunity to put us down.

 

[qldfrog]

No I have not and this really has little overall to do with the Greens in my view The press not only has little to do with us but take every opportunity to put us down.

Are you kidding us?
The abc is a green hive...

As for tgt press, who would ever even attack a labour idea...

 

[wayneL]

Plod, you say you are a socialist. It seems to be a term that is very loosely applied , or without understanding of its full implications.

Can you define your understanding of socialism ad you desire it, and also The Greens goals in this regard, should it ever gain power.

 

[explod]

Are you kidding us?
The abc is a green hive...

As for tgt press, who would ever even attack a labour idea...

I do not see this, some examples please.

 

[explod]

Plod, you say you are a socialist. It seems to be a term that is very loosely applied , or without understanding of its full implications.

Can you define your understanding of socialism ad you desire it, and also The Greens goals in this regard, should it ever gain power.

I spent time studying in Scandinavia, particularly Sweden years back. Then, 1970's was the ideal. Sweden has in recent times moved to the right but Norway, Denmark and Finland have maintained a very fair socialist system. In fact here in Australia our system was very fair prior to privatisation (Thatcherism). Private utilities controlling essential services such as power, and in particular now universities is down hill. Recently we see private car parks emerging at Public hospitals charging around $10 per hour.

Socialism just means "a fair go". However it has been tagged otherwise by the money making system because it threatens their ideals of money over everything else.

 

[bigdog]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/na...g/news-story/abca7d5e4506e6e5f6de774ff91ef51b

Julian Burnside eyes Kooyong, targets wealthy with death taxes

Human rights and refugee lawyer and advocate Julian Burnside. Picture: Supplied

“That makes a whole lot of sense when you think about it. We used to have death duties and then Joh Bjelke-Petersen got rid of them and then all the other states fell into line,” he told ABC Melbourne radio this morning.

“We’ve got a spectacular budget deficit and I really think we need to take the world a bit more seriously.”

The support for death duties could hurt Mr Burnside’s push in the leafy suburbs of Camberwell and Hawthorn, but these were also places that swung to the left in the last Victorian election.

Labor ended up winning the state seat of Hawthorn, but Mr Burnside today said he could not “easily” help the ALP gain the federal seat by sending them preferences.

“I think the Liberals are hopeless and you can’t believe anything they say, but you know, Bill Shorten, nice guy, but I’m not sure that he’s, I don’t think the Labor Party is all that good,” he told ABC News.

“I’m not sure that preferencing the Labor Party would be something that I would do easily.”

Mr Burnside has reinvented himself as a refugee rights advocate in recent years and said he has only joined the Greens at the last minute because they are now a “mature party.”

“The Greens are now a mature party. Our policies on any number of things are policies that most people would agree with,” he told ABC News.

“It’s come of age. It’s not the bunch of environmentalists it was thought to be when it was established in the early 90s.

“(I joined) only in the past week or two weeks because I spent my entire life not being a member of any political party. But I’m persuaded this election that it’s really important to give the Greens a proper voice.”

Burnside takes on Frydenberg

Mr Burnside, in confirming his candidacy last night with The Australian, said he was targeting the Treasurer’s Melbourne seat of Kooyong.

But he declined to comment on what his priorities would be for constituents in the electorate once held by Liberal Party founder Robert Menzies.

Just days ago, Mr Burnside likened the government’s border protection policies implemented by Scott Morrison to the tactics employed by Nazi Germany in a controversial tweet quoting Hermann Goering at Nuremberg in 1946.

“Prediction: #Scomo will send a whisper to the Navy to let a couple of asylum seeker boats through before the election. Then he will try to terrify the nation that we are under attack.

Could he be that dishonest? Don’t fall for it: read the attached comment,” he tweeted.

Mr Burnside then posted a quote from Goering, stating: “The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country”.

Mr Frydenberg is also facing another challenge from former Liberal Party member and renewable energy champion, Oliver Yates, who headed up the Clean Energy Finance Corporation under the former Labor government.

Mr Burnside’s candidacy is likely to drain votes away from Mr Yates, who is running as an independent.

It is understood Mr Burnside decided to enter the race as Mr Yates was struggling to gain traction within the electorate.

Mr Frydenberg, who was elected the Liberals deputy leader last year, holds Kooyong on a margin of 12.8 per cent after a redistribution. He first won the seat in 2010 and has increased his vote in subsequent elections.

Mr Yates, who clashed with Mr Frydenberg over the Coalition’s national energy guarantee, was ejected from a $10,000-a-table Victorian Liberal fundraiser in late 2017 after objecting when senator Jane Hume presented Scott Morrison with a fake lump of coal — a reference to the then treasurer’s move to bring a sample of the fossil fuel into the House of Representatives. Mr Yates, son of former Liberal MP William Yates, said it was “not a laughing matter”. He later described the government’s energy policies as immoral and warned the Liberals had been hijacked by the far-right and had drifted from their core values.

‘He makes a lot of noise’

Scott Morrison said Mr Burnside, a thorn in his side during his time as Immigration Minister, “makes a lot of noise” and attacked his inability to protect Kooyong voters from Labor tax policies.

“He makes a lot of noise. Julian Burnside won’t be able to prevent retirees getting taxed $5 billion a year,” he said in Canberra today.

“A vote for Julian Burnside won’t be able to do that. He won’t be able to stop Labor’s tax attack on the electors of Kooyong.

“There is only one person who can stop that and that is the Treasurer. He is not only going to stop it for the Kooyong electors, he will stop it for the entire country.”

There has been some analysis that a split in the anti-Liberal vote between Mr Burnside and independent candidate Oliver Yates would ultimately help Mr Frydenberg.

Mr Yates, a former head of the Clean Energy Finance Corporation, said he welcomed Mr Burnside’s decision to run.

“I have long shared Mr Burnside’s concerns for the treatment of refugees in Australia’s inhumane and expensive offshore detention camps. I also share Mr Burnside’s desire for a more just society,” he said.

“I welcome Mr Burnside to the campaign and look forward to seeing him campaigning and meeting the voters of Kooyong, as I have been doing over the past several weeks.

“We will work together across the campaign to ensure representation of Kooyong is better aligned with the concerns of our electorate.”

 

[qldfrog]

What did i say: tax income then tax assets
Communism:
You work , you are taxed, then whatever you saved after taxtax taxed again..
This is called levelling by the bottom
Men are not stupid and inherently lazy so
Do not save, do not work be s parasite please visit France as a model on how socialism work when you remove citizenship from the equation.and do the same in sweden in 10 y after they opened the floodgate to migration recently

 

[explod]

 

[wayneL]

I spent time studying in Scandinavia, particularly Sweden years back. Then, 1970's was the ideal. Sweden has in recent times moved to the right but Norway, Denmark and Finland have maintained a very fair socialist system. In fact here in Australia our system was very fair prior to privatisation (Thatcherism). Private utilities controlling essential services such as power, and in particular now universities is down hill. Recently we see private car parks emerging at Public hospitals charging around $10 per hour.

Socialism just means "a fair go". However it has been tagged otherwise by the money making system because it threatens their ideals of money over everything else.

Ah, well, those are really social democracies will social programs of various degrees, encapsulated within market capitalism.

They are not really socialist economies.

I this regard, I could rightly call myself a socialist because I favour public ownership of utilities and public transport, universal health, ans a functional safety net. (but I don't call myself a socialist)

It's a broad church and I really don't think the term "socialism" is being used in the correct context currently.

 

[wayneL]

The Greens as party however, as epitomised by SHY, Di Natalie, Bandt, and the egregious tosser mentioned above, go way too far in this regard.

The social program aspect of their platform become a parasitic, malignant and terminal cancer upon enterprise.

I believe there is a virtuous mix somewhere in there, but none of the parties are anywhere near to what that might be.

IMO

 

[explod]

Sorry Possum, but you are either under the spirits or its creators the illuminati

Dr. Robert Holian for Bendigo 2019
1 hr ·

 

[qldfrog]

FFS,
So we stop building and mining, close the power companies and banks all these evils companies who might even make profit to do what?
Ussr without primary production?
Who will pay your ipad or power it, who will give you houses for the 4billions who would move here if they could..as per your program would allow them
Parties receiving money outside membership not good , ok ,but look at the garbage surrounding that info.
this is where collective communism and its hundreds of millions of death points its head.this is scary more than ridiculous

 

[basilio]

a quote from Goering, stating: “The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country”.

Classic propaganda. You could replace Goering with Caesar, Churchill, Stalin, Howard or Trump and the intent is exactly the same - the best way to pull the people in line is with a Call to Patriotism to defend the Fatherland/Empire/ USA.