Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Second stimulus package discussion

Then why do you care? Oh, I see that you havent left Australia then. Well, I'm confusen!:confused:

The first stimulus package does nothing for businesses who work with businesses.

Why? Because I choose to come back here every now and then to visit family?

I still care for my family and the plight they are in.
 
What I was trying to get at, was that this individual (was it you?) in the letter was complaining about his lack of entitlement to the handout, but surely in the short term his business (and therefore, himself) will receive far more monetary benefit out of this than that one little lump sum.

No it wasn't me.....I couldn't care less about the handout. I haven't even bothered to check if I'm eligible for it. Either way, it won't make much difference to me.
 
The stimulus package will give mostly only a short term boost to business.
I would have thought there are dozens of projects that the money could be better spent on.....projects that would not only provide short term stimulus, but also longer term revenue generation and jobs for decades to come.

Rudd may be duplicating an approach that's been adopted world-wide, but that doesn't mean it's the correct approach. Rudd and his cronies don't have business brains.
In fact the more I see of them, the more I doubt they have any kind of brains at all.

The whole package is designed to spend money quickly and has nothing to do with individual need or long term stability. Mr Rudd is no longer talking about job creation, but has switched to job maintenance.

The lack of forward thinking is demonstrated in the billions being poured into the school buildings program. No doubt refurbished class-rooms, halls and libraries will make life more pleasant for the pupils and will provide jobs for a while.

But nobody can deny that any country's future is dependent on the finished product that our schools turn out. Will all these billions help our secondary schools educate children to a level where they are capable of undergoing the high level of tertiary scientific education we will need in the future?

I think not.
 
The whole package is designed to spend money quickly and has nothing to do with individual need or long term stability. Mr Rudd is no longer talking about job creation, but has switched to job maintenance.

The lack of forward thinking is demonstrated in the billions being poured into the school buildings program. No doubt refurbished class-rooms, halls and libraries will make life more pleasant for the pupils and will provide jobs for a while.

But nobody can deny that any country's future is dependent on the finished product that our schools turn out. Will all these billions help our secondary schools educate children to a level where they are capable of undergoing the high level of tertiary scientific education we will need in the future?

I think not.

I tend to agree. how the hell does assembly halls etc make a student more productive?

Sounds like jobs for mates to me.
 
I tend to agree. how the hell does assembly halls etc make a student more productive?

Sounds like jobs for mates to me.

Well, each year the Year 12 exams are held in them! So they should be airconditioned because the temps are usually in the high 30's and those exams determine whether or not they get to Uni. And the way buildings are constructed these days makes them like ovens even on a mild day.
 
I tend to agree. how the hell does assembly halls etc make a student more productive?

Sounds like jobs for mates to me.

By that logic, how does having enough hospital beds, and air conditioning in the buildings allow people to recover faster?

More rooms, and perhaps even more teachers would mean that class sizes could also be reduced.

A comfortable environment is incredibly beneficial, and productive - to both the teaching faculty, and the students. Half of my high school life was spent in a lower-class high school, and it really was quite appalling. We had near-obsolete computers, holes in the floor, a lack of heating, as well as air conditioning, an unsafe hall that needed to be closed down for a couple of months for repairs, asbestos in the hall change-room ceilings (we were told to never hit the ceiling!), and a multitude of other problems.

This was the main high school of the area as well (inner suburbia!) - so please, do not say that schools don't need money.

Oh, and yes - as prospector just mentioned, it wasn't only the exams, but also trying to learn, and pay attention during class time was very difficult when it's 45 degrees inside the room. Many students would simply not attend class, and would lose the benefit of that day's lesson. How's that for productivity?
 
There is a terrible story in the Advertiser (SA paper) showing how this money is being directed to scum bags. Some of you might remember last year the story in SA where three people were arrested for child neglect and cruelty to 16 children living in 1 home. Several kids were in hospital for months. The woman arrested was also about to give birth to another. Oh yeah, the Housing Trust House they trashed took weeks to clean up. The RSPCA seized the animals that were rotting there, yet the child welfate took an extra 3 days or so to take the children into care. So they are getting a nice clean new one.

Well, it seems that not only did she get the baby bonus of $5000 payable in instalments, but under Rudd's plan they will get $30,000! :eek:
Prospector, that is, of course, just appalling. And it will be repeated in perhaps less dramatic fashion throughout Australia.

But $30,000 to cretins like this is just what Rudd & Co want! Because they will go out and spend it quickly on useless rubbish. Don't worry about that though because it will provide another quick spike in the quarterly figures so our esteemed leaders may say : "OK, folks, there we are now - see what a great job we're doing - Australia is still not in recession, just look at those retail figures."

This country - and the others who share this short term amoral attitude - needs a whole new political and governmental philosophy. It won't happen, of course. It's just all so depressing.
 
Well, each year the Year 12 exams are held in them! So they should be airconditioned because the temps are usually in the high 30's and those exams determine whether or not they get to Uni. And the way buildings are constructed these days makes them like ovens even on a mild day.
The point if moot if the number of no of uni placements are fixed - the entrance scores will slightly rise if anything, however if no further university placements are added then we wont have any higher numbers of tertiary entries.
 
What happens if the government doesn't deploy stimulus packages?

What happens if they under spend?

What happens if they over spend? Is this a bigger problem?

What is better preemptive action or reactive action?

Is an accelerating rate of crisis a good thing?

What is the "velocity of money"?

Which official / mainstream estimates have been accurate in relation to the current state of the Australian economy?

What is the issue for the future if the majority of estimates are continually behind the curve?

This is one example of acting behind the curve
US job losses biggest since 1974
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,25019938-36375,00.html
 
A letter writer in the Weekend Australian poses the question;

Could it be that Kevin Rudd's ideological basis for the $42 billion answer to life, the recession and everything is more Douglas Adams than John Maynard Keynes?
 
Prospector, that is, of course, just appalling. And it will be repeated in perhaps less dramatic fashion throughout Australia.

But $30,000 to cretins like this is just what Rudd & Co want! Because they will go out and spend it quickly on useless rubbish. Don't worry about that though because it will provide another quick spike in the quarterly figures so our esteemed leaders may say : "OK, folks, there we are now - see what a great job we're doing - Australia is still not in recession, just look at those retail figures."

This country - and the others who share this short term amoral attitude - needs a whole new political and governmental philosophy. It won't happen, of course. It's just all so depressing.


Are you guys/girls serious. It is like watching today tonight. Take a particular case and then generalize it on the whole population. That is just ridiculous. Have you ever heard of the terms "Average" or "Mean", "Variance" and "Standard deviation"? Have you ever heard of statistical analysis?:confused:

I just hate when one particular extreme example is generalized to support a point.:mad:
 
Are you guys/girls serious. It is like watching today tonight. Take a particular case and then generalize it on the whole population. That is just ridiculous. Have you ever heard of the terms "Average" or "Mean", "Variance" and "Standard deviation"? Have you ever heard of statistical analysis?:confused:

I just hate when one particular extreme example is generalized to support a point.:mad:

I don't think anyone is trying to generalize people here. I think it's moreso just a case of shock in the face of rampant exploitation. Perhaps amendments should be made as to have a cap for the maximum amount of children one can claim for.

There's no reason to even have that many children, it's just wrong.
 
But $30,000 to cretins like this is just what Rudd & Co want! Because they will go out and spend it quickly on useless rubbish. Don't worry about that though because it will provide another quick spike in the quarterly figures so our esteemed leaders may say : "OK, folks, there we are now - see what a great job we're doing - Australia is still not in recession, just look at those retail figures."

I don't think anyone is trying to generalize people here. I think it's just more a case of shock in the face of rampant exploitation. Perhaps amendments should be made as to have a cap for the maximum amount of children one can claim for.

There's no reason to even have that many children, it's just wrong.
:cautious:
 

I can't speak for what Julia was trying to say, but perhaps she was just angry that there will be quite a few cases like this. Bad parents with a bunch of kids raking in tens of thousands of dollars.

Perhaps such cases should be dealt with on a more individual basis. It certainly upsets me to think that an abusive mother will receive $30,000.
 
There's no reason to even have that many children, it's just wrong.

A cap on the claim for number of children is inherently discriminatory, it is for children welfare not their parents, contrary to popular belief.

Putting a cap on the number of children is also not humane. You want your government to control the number of kids you can have?
 
A cap on the claim for number of children is inherently discriminatory, it is for children welfare not their parents, contrary to popular belief.

Putting a cap on the number of children is also not humane. You want your government to control the number of kids you can have?

When it is beyond your own means as to support all these children, damn right I do (want them to control how many we can have). When the quality of life of these children is reduced, simply because the parents don't have the time, nor the money as to properly nurture, and support them all - it's just wrong. Especially when the taxpayer has to pay the difference.

There are too many parental rights in our society, and not enough child rights. The young girl being thrown off of the bridge is a prime example of this. Apparently there was already some concerns about the father, but nothing was done.

If the family payments are indeed for the welfare of the child, then why not simply give coupons in lieu of money?

An unfit parent is an unfit parent, at least as far as I'm concerned. It's as black and white as it can possibly be. Race, culture, and socio-economic standing are irrelevant - if there is child neglect present, the child needs to be removed.
 
When it is beyond your own means as to support all these children, damn right I do (want them to control how many we can have). When the quality of life of these children is reduced, simply because the parents don't have the time, nor the money as to properly nurture, and support them all - it's just wrong. Especially when the taxpayer has to pay the difference.

There are too many parental rights in our society, and not enough child rights. The young girl being thrown off of the bridge is a prime example of this. Apparently there was already some concerns about the father, but nothing was done.

If the family payments are indeed for the welfare of the child, then why not simply give coupons in lieu of money?

I am against this kid pop cash injection scheme, creates too many complications (like the aforementioned cases).

Regarding your last point, it is better to abandon this scheme then to morph it with coupons, which can ultimately be sold for cash.

Sorry for getting off topic, please continue on with KRudd bashing.;)
 
An unfit parent is an unfit parent, at least as far as I'm concerned. It's as black and white as it can possibly be. Race, culture, and socio-economic standing are irrelevant - if there is child neglect present, the child needs to be removed.

Agreed completely.
 
By that logic, how does having enough hospital beds, and air conditioning in the buildings allow people to recover faster?

More rooms, and perhaps even more teachers would mean that class sizes could also be reduced.

A comfortable environment is incredibly beneficial, and productive - to both the teaching faculty, and the students. Half of my high school life was spent in a lower-class high school, and it really was quite appalling. We had near-obsolete computers, holes in the floor, a lack of heating, as well as air conditioning, an unsafe hall that needed to be closed down for a couple of months for repairs, asbestos in the hall change-room ceilings (we were told to never hit the ceiling!), and a multitude of other problems.

This was the main high school of the area as well (inner suburbia!) - so please, do not say that schools don't need money.

Schools need money, yes.
But the question is whether expenditure on new assembly halls, libraries, roofing insulation etc, is the best use of the money Rudd is splashing around?
Or could there be better ways to spend it....ways that would generate on-going revenue and jobs for many decades to come, while at the same time providing significant economic boost short term? Kill two birds with the one stone, so to speak.

The Rudd package has a short term ring to it, but seems to be lacking in longer term vision.
 
it would be good if we just apointed the nations top economists to political roles...

its gonna be a big night at the pokies the week this thing gets paid out...
 
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