Second stimulus package discussion

[Trevor_S]

as I bet we will have to pay it sooner or later anyway.

Yes, it is only a delay, you have to pay it the next time you remit your quarterly PAYG, so don't go and spend it. I am not quite sure why they thought this would be a good idea, Rudd ever referred to it as a rebate back in December before he was corrected and reminded it was a deferral only. Deferring tax will tempt some to cry poor when they do have to finally pay it.... and tax revenues may drop accordingly ? if business income has been affected that badly, you have always been able to self adjust the friggin' thing anyway, so what the hell...

I have always manually calculated based on a quarterly P&L and always end up with a reasonable rebate at the end of the year because the deprecation is not accounted for until the end of the year.

 

[shaunQ]

Okay, I've been avoiding this thread. And not surprising to see this discussion (if you can call it that) all about self satisfying snipes rather than actually conceding the political reality of the present situation.

As the saying goes, unfortunetly, no matter who you vote for, you always end up with a politician.

Liberal, Labor, whoever. They all would have come up with a similar package.

Out of all the politicians, I think Bob Brown is playing this the best. Understanding the reality and working it to his advantage. That is politics.

Labor debt? Is that your problem? Your concerned about $42 Billion. 4% of GDP, of which 75% is being spent on infrastructure and support.

What about the over $1 Trillion dollar personal debt accumulated during the Howard dynasty? It was only a couple of hundred million in 1996. As I read once, one thing Howard was good at was shifting problems to someone else.

Hey and don't forget, in 2004, Howard had doubled the foreign debt owed by Keating from $194B to $393 Billion and blew the lot.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/07/07/1089000222261.html

But hey - don't let facts get in the way of your discussion, keep the cliches coming. :

Edit:

For the most part of politics, I don't think any government would have done any different. It is just the nature of the game to score point at critical junctures.

Well said.

 

[Nyden]

More on my pro-handout discussion :

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25009813-5013871,00.html

Under the economic stimulus package unveiled by Kevin Rudd on Tuesday, it will be possible for some parents, mainly mothers who work part-time but still receive Family Tax Benefit B, to get paid twice. And students who also work will qualify for two payments totalling $1900, although the Government refused to confirm this last night.

Despite the aim of the stimulus package to support low and medium-income earners, some high-earning families will be able to access payments.

Families Minister Jenny Macklin's office yesterday confirmed that, if a husband or wife was earning $100,000 or less, they would be eligible for some or all of the $950 lump-sum payment regardless of how much their partner earned.

Under the package, a family with two workers on $100,000 each, earning a collective income of $200,000 a year, could get two worker payments.

The Treasurer's office last night would not comment on the double-dipping issue.

How is this even an issue? If I have worked, and worked enough as to earn above the tax threshold (including offsets) in crappy little $20/hour jobs - sacrificing my free time outside of study/uni; then darn right I'm entitled to double dip! Were parents "double-dipping" the last time because of multiple kids? Give me a break. I paid thousands in tax last year (which shows you how much I worked outside of study!), and I'm entitled to that refund just as much as any other worker is as well.

This is why I'm not a big fan of this enquiry. Just pass my handout bills already, the senate can debate for months on the rest of it for all I care! The idea of just $950 doesn't sound as nice as $1900 did.

I'm sure I won't get much discussion out of this though, most here seem to be anti-payout.

Same argument for those mothers though - why should those of us that put in that little bit of extra effort not be rewarded as well? I work, and study 7 days a week dammit, give me my money!

I really am concerned the government will compromise on that matter, and I'll lose half my carrot.

Furthermore, what of those that were full-time workers last year, but became midyear entry students last year (after the financial year)? There were quite a few of those last year. Best to just leave it as it is, or it'll become too complicated.


http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25016295-5006301,00.html

Under questioning from the South Australian senator, an official from the Department of Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs confirmed that a student working part-time could receive a $950 bonus to help with academic costs and a $950 taxpayer bonus.

Oh, the horror! A hard working student who works until 1am will be able to buy books, pay fees, and maybe even buy lunch this year, who knows - maybe even catch a movie on the weekend! Just evil, that is.

 

[Wysiwyg]

I'm sure I won't get much discussion out of this though, most here seem to be anti-payout.

Does anyone know whether the money is being borrowed from overseas or coming from the treasury bank account?

Another thing is I have known our government bodies to give with one hand and take with the other.
What is the catch?

 

[Nyden]

Does anyone know whether the money is being borrowed from overseas or coming from the treasury bank account?

Another thing is I have known our government bodies to give with one hand and take with the other.
What is the catch?

Well, the catch is that it'll all need to be paid back one day. I'm a young individual, and providing I stick around - I'll be one of the people paying this all back. It doesn't phase me - if this helps me live a better life in the short term, and helps me secure myself financially - and perhaps even go towards buying a house ... then I'm willing to incur the temporarily slightly higher taxes of the future

Ugh, it really does frustrate me that double dipping is an issue. I may be a student, but I contributed tax as well last year, more than enough to pay 6-7 blooming payouts. Xenophon should just be quiet.

 

[Julia]

Is that really such a harsh argument against the package? $9500 in debt for every Australian, in honesty - it doesn't sound like all that much to me.

Have you considered interest on the debt for many years into the future?

No matter what changes are implemented, with the way things are heading - we are going to have these levels of debts anyway! His main argument should be his disagreement of the current target sectors, and not the deficit racked up.

Can you clarify this? I'd like to better understand what you are trying to say here.

I guess what it boils down to (for me, at least) - is that I'd rather have $9500 in debt, with $2000 in my back pocket, as opposed to $9500 in debt, and no direct personal benefit at all.

I also find it somewhat hypocritical; that nearly every single first response to this package was probably along the lines of personal entitlement. "Do I get some of that money?" - was the question posed by most when this announcement was made.

Nyden, this criticism is breathtaking in its hypocrisy! There would be no one on this thread who was more enraged about receiving nothing initially, or then more jubilant about receiving a hand out than yourself.

Upon discovering their lack of entitlement, many individuals seem to be angry at those of us who are going to receive it - and are describing us as dole bludging, bribed pigs at the trough!

I can recall one post which used such language to disagree with the idea.

I, for one - am glad that average people are receiving the money this time. Not just people of certain lifestyle choices (families), but most working individuals who contribute to tax!

As I understand the package, many families will receive a second handout.

This to me seems unreasonable when e.g. the unemployed receive nothing.
They are probably the group most in need.
And then self funded retirees who have paid tax via their SF's will not be entitled to anything under either package. Especially considering the diminished income of this group, is that fair?



I wonder how you might feel, Nyden, if the negotiations between the Libs, and the minority Senators, remove your handout? Will you still be so much in favour of this terrific package?

Of course it's human nature to want for ourselves, but your very hypocrisy takes this characteristic to new levels. Enjoy your money.

 

[Julia]

Xenophon should just be quiet.

On the contrary. It's good to see that some non-government senators are insisting on examining the package before acceding to the government's urging for immediate agreement.

Imo it's unbelievably arrogant of the government to take weeks to come up with their proposition and then suggest that the Opposition and minority parties are being irresponsible for not passing it within 24 hours and without proper examination.

Much of this package does not make sense and needs to be properly scrutinised before committing us to such a massive debt.

 

[Econinvestor]

On the contrary. It's good to see that some non-government senators are insisting on examining the package before acceding to the government's urging for immediate agreement.

Imo it's unbelievably arrogant of the government to take weeks to come up with their proposition and then suggest that the Opposition and minority parties are being irresponsible for not passing it within 24 hours and without proper examination.

Much of this package does not make sense and needs to be properly scrutinised before committing us to such a massive debt.

I'm with Julia on this one. The type of fiscal policy matters a lot to how effective it might be in achieving stimulus. The wrong types either just wastes taxpayer dollars or takes so long that it crowds out emerging private investment. The effect of fiscal policy is also quite hard to see in data: we are taking this kind of policy on faith because of concerns about people's diminished confidence. On top of this, most predictions are that the recession will be light. The policy is insurance against the possibility it is much longer and deeper than the data suggests.

42 billion needs careful scrutiny and two weeks will make no difference anyhow.

 

[Nyden]

Have you considered interest on the debt for many years into the future?


Can you clarify this? I'd like to better understand what you are trying to say here.






Nyden, this criticism is breathtaking in its hypocrisy! There would be no one on this thread who was more enraged about receiving nothing initially, or then more jubilant about receiving a hand out than yourself.



I can recall one post which used such language to disagree with the idea.




As I understand the package, many families will receive a second handout.

This to me seems unreasonable when e.g. the unemployed receive nothing.
They are probably the group most in need.
And then self funded retirees who have paid tax via their SF's will not be entitled to anything under either package. Especially considering the diminished income of this group, is that fair?



I wonder how you might feel, Nyden, if the negotiations between the Libs, and the minority Senators, remove your handout? Will you still be so much in favour of this terrific package?

Of course it's human nature to want for ourselves, but your very hypocrisy takes this characteristic to new levels. Enjoy your money.

Julia, I (believe - perhaps not) have stated that the bulk of the package does perhaps need better targeting; and to not be of such a shotgun effect.

I would of course be upset, were I not receiving anything - just as I was upset last time. What I was trying to get across; was that many arguing against this particular aspect of the package may be doing so purely out of sour grapes.

How can an individual say something is irresponsible, when their own first response was to see if they were getting a piece of the pie as well? "I want it, do I get it? No? It's irresponsible then" - is a lot of the commentary I've been reading. Not necessarily here, but on comments on news articles.

I do entirely believe we'll have the debt level Turnbull is arguing against either way, simply because the Rudd government is hellbent on spending. Does anyone honestly believe, that if they remove the handouts - they won't simply be directing this debt-fueled expenditure someplace else? I guess I'd just rather have that directed towards me, because if I'm going to be paying this debt back one day ... I want to be able to at least know that I got something out of it.

I guess I am being impatient, and as I've stated - I do believe some of the targeting to be at fault here. Pensioners, and struggling retirees should receive money. Perhaps those that received the previous payment should be excluded from the current; seems fair to me.

I'm probably coming across as very arrogant here! I guess it's just anger, above anything else. It's emotional manipulation, where the leader of the country states something as already written fact, only to then have it potentially taken away.

The rest of the package; it does need work. As I said, I'm not too keen on the shotgun approach, but I personally believe the targeted sectors to be correct. Schools, hospitals, infrastructure - I see no problem in any of those, the amounts being spent? Well, I simply have no control over that, none of us do - so why fret over it? Just try to protect yourself as best as possible, which is what I'm trying to do.


Believe me, had Rudd said that I was not receiving anything from the start, I would have been quite upset - but not as angry as I seem to be feeling now. It's just something of a very upsetting tease. The little payout represented much to me - an opportunity to finally let my hair down a little, and now I feel as though it was just a lie. Truth be told, I'm as angry at Rudd as I am at anyone else. Perhaps he should have spoken with Turnbull prior to the announcement.

Imagine scratching a lottery ticket with a couple of thousand in winnings, one would be (as you clearly stated I was!) jubilant. Then imagine a day later being told that the ticket may in fact be void. Money is, and always has been my emotional weakness! Perhaps it's something I best work on.

I'm just frustrated at governments, all governments. The savings I've worked hard for are barely producing any sort of income ... perhaps I should just end my rant, whilst I'm behind! I may just be too young to already be bitter, and disenchanted.

 

[bunyip]

Maybe this should be sent to Rudd instead of to ASF!


A Boss Who Tells It Like It Is
Date: Fri 06 02 2009

To All My Valued Employees,
There have been some rumblings around the office about the future of this company, and more specifically, your job. As you know, the economy has changed for the worse and presents many challenges. However, the good news is this: The economy doesn't pose a threat to your job. What does threaten your job; however, is the changing political landscape in this country.

However, let me tell you some little tidbits of fact which might help you decide what is in your best interests.
First, while it is easy to spew rhetoric that casts employers against employees, you have to understand that for every business owner there is a back story. This back story is often neglected and overshadowed by what you see and hear. Sure, you see me park my Subaru Outback outside. You've seen my big home at last year's Christmas party. I'm sure all these flashy icons of luxury conjure up some idealized thoughts about my life.


However, what you don't see is the back story.
I started this company 28 years ago. At that time, I lived in a 2 bedroom flat for 3 years. My entire living area was converted into an office so I could put forth 100% effort into building a company, which by the way, would eventually employ you.
My diet consisted of baked beans, stew and soup because every dollar I spent went back into this company. I drove a rusty Toyota Corolla with a wonky transmission. I didn't have time to go out with women. Often times, I stayed home on weekends, while my friends went out drinking and partying. In fact, I was married to my business -- hard work, discipline, and sacrifice.
Meanwhile, my friends got jobs. They worked 40 hours a week and made a modest $50,000 a year and spent every dime they earned. They drove flashy cars and lived in expensive homes and wore fancy designer clothes. Instead of hitting David Jones for the latest hot fashion item, I was trolling through the discount stores extracting any clothing item that didn't look like it was birthed in the 70's. My friends refinanced their mortgages and lived a life of luxury. I, however, did not. I put my time, my money, and my life into a business with a vision that eventually, some day, I too, will be able to afford these luxuries my friends supposedly had.
So, while you physically arrive at the office at 9am, mentally check in at about noon, and then leave at 5pm, I don't. There is no "off" button for me. When you leave the office, you are done and you have a weekend all to yourself. I unfortunately do not have the freedom. I eat, and breathe this company every minute of the day. There is no rest. There is no weekend. There is no happy hour. Every day this business is attached to my hip like a 1 year old special-needs child. You, of course, only see the fruits of that garden -- the nice house, the Subaru, the vacations... you never realise the back story and the sacrifices I've made.

Now, the economy is falling apart and I, the guy who made all the right decisions and saved his money, have to bail-out all the people who didn't. The people that overspent their pay suddenly feel entitled to the same luxuries that I earned and sacrificed a decade of my life for.
Yes, business ownership has its benefits but the price I've paid is steep and not without wounds.
Unfortunately, the cost of running this business, and employing you, is starting to eclipse the threshold of marginal benefit and let me tell you why:


I am being taxed to death and the government thinks I don't pay enough. I have state taxes. Federal taxes. Property taxes. Sales and use taxes. Payroll taxes. Workers compensation. Unemployment taxes. Taxes on taxes. I have to hire an accountant to manage all these taxes and then guess what? I have to pay taxes for employing him. Government mandates and regulations and all the accounting that goes with it, now occupy most of my time. On Oct 15th, I wrote a cheque to the Australian tax Office for $288,000 for quarterly taxes. You know what my "stimulus" cheque was? Zero. Zip. Zilch.


The question I have is this: Who is stimulating the economy? Me, the guy who has provided 14 people good paying jobs and serves over 2,200,000 people per year with a flourishing business? Or, the single mother sitting at home pregnant with her fourth child waiting for her next welfare cheque? Obviously, government feels the latter is the economic stimulus of this country.


The fact is, if I deducted (Read: Stole) 50% of your pay you'd quit and you wouldn't work here. I mean, why should you? That's nuts. Who wants to get rewarded for only 50% of their hard work? Well, I agree which is why your job is in jeopardy.


Here is what many of you don't understand ... to stimulate the economy you need to stimulate what runs the economy. Had the government suddenly mandated to me that I didn't need to pay taxes, guess what? Instead of depositing that $288,000 into the Canberra black-hole, I would have spent it, hired more employees, and generated substantial economic growth. My employees would have enjoyed the wealth of that tax cut in the form of promotions and better salaries. But you can forget it now.
When you have a comatose man on the verge of death, you don't defibrillate and shock his thumb thinking that will bring him back to life, do you? Or, do you defibrillate his heart? Business is at the heart of Australia and always has been. To restart it, you must stimulate it, not kill it. But the power brokers in Canberra believe the poor of Australia are the essential drivers of the Australian economic engine. Nothing could be further from the truth and this is the type of change you can keep.


So where am I going with all this?
It's quite simple.
If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, my reaction will be swift and simple. I fire you. I fire your co-workers. You can then plead with the government to pay for your mortgage, your 4WD and your child's future. Frankly, it isn't my problem any more.
Then, I will close this company down, move to another country, and retire. You see, I'm done. I'm done with a country that penalizes the productive and gives to the unproductive. My motivation to work and to provide jobs will be destroyed, and with it, will be my citizenship.
So, if you lose your job, it won't be at the hands of the economy; it will be at the hands of politicians who swept through this country and changed its financial landscape forever. If that happens, you can find me sitting on a beach, retired, and with no employees to worry about....


Signed,
Your boss

 

[shaunQ]

Maybe this should be sent to Rudd instead of to ASF!

Definitely some truth in what he says, but on the other hand, his business would be nothing, zero, zilch, without the 2,200,000 people per year he services. Without them he wouldn't have the ability to make the profit that makes him liable to pay $220,000 in tax.

 

[PeterJ]

Bunyip

some very good points ...
i sold my Day Care Centre for adults ( sorry, business )
and will not go back

Peter

 

[sinner]

Thanks shaunQ for the charts. Excellent graphic representation of what I have been screaming fruitlessly to friends and family for years now.

 

[Wysiwyg]

A Boss Who Tells It Like It Is
Date: Fri 06 02 2009

Looks like the fella took the wrong path in life.Someone forgot to tell him you`re only young once, slaves cost money and running a business is damn hard cerebral work.

But I`m sure he new all that.

 

[Trevor_S]

Okay, I've been avoiding this thread. And not surprising to see this discussion (if you can call it that) all about self satisfying snipes rather than actually conceding the political reality of the present situation.

As the saying goes, unfortunetly, no matter who you vote for, you always end up with a politician.

Liberal, Labor, whoever. They all would have come up with a similar package.

Certainly voting for Liberal or Labor is a wasted vote but that's an entire other debate. As to the rest of your statement, I disagree

The problem with the stimulus packages is, well... they aren't... poorly thought out and targeted would be a nice way of portraying them. If like me you are used to running things frugally, you abhor waste, be it water or tax dollars.. and this is one big slap in the face for prudent fiscal spending

ABN Amro Morgans' Michael Knox: “The Obama stimulus package has a multiplier or bang for the buck of around 1. This means that there is around $1.00 of GDP added for each $1.00 of stimulus spent. The Rudd stimulus package seems to have a much lower multiplier of 0.3 in its first year and no more than 0.6 in its second year. The multiplier is much lower because the Rudd package chooses to spend its money on social infrastructure rather than economic infrastructure. In terms of economic impact, the bang for the buck in the Rudd package is so soft it must be rated as a dull thud. The object of the stimulus package appears to be to simply take the edge off the current recession until such time as the cut in interest rates administered by the RBA generates a recovery in private investment and recovery in the Australian economy.”

 

[kotim]

SIMPLE FACT

The vast majority of people who vote do so according to the condition of their finanacial hip pocket, they may have "strong convictions" about things etc but when push comes to shove on election day, they put aside those other convictions and vote for the best personal financial outcome.

So if you've got a job being a politiican and you want to keep your job, then you must take notice of those who vote you in and their tendancies.

We the average joe blow out there are the cause of the so called 'pathetic politicians' because we give them the ammo do treat us like we want to be treated.

Unless people are personally going to go out there and make a difference, then who cares what pollies do, yes we all hate taxes and if we could get around them easy enough we would.

Gov't can increase taxes and decrease spending which would head us down towards depression, or they can stimulate and they will only stimulate according to our hip pocket vote, does RUDD care about the good of the country, yes he does, but he and most other politiicans are constrained by
OUR desires, let alone their own imperfections.

 

[knocker]

Maybe this should be sent to Rudd instead of to ASF!


A Boss Who Tells It Like It Is
Date: Fri 06 02 2009

To All My Valued Employees,
There have been some rumblings around the office about the future of this company, and more specifically, your job. As you know, the economy has changed for the worse and presents many challenges. However, the good news is this: The economy doesn't pose a threat to your job. What does threaten your job; however, is the changing political landscape in this country.

However, let me tell you some little tidbits of fact which might help you decide what is in your best interests.
First, while it is easy to spew rhetoric that casts employers against employees, you have to understand that for every business owner there is a back story. This back story is often neglected and overshadowed by what you see and hear. Sure, you see me park my Subaru Outback outside. You've seen my big home at last year's Christmas party. I'm sure all these flashy icons of luxury conjure up some idealized thoughts about my life.


However, what you don't see is the back story.
I started this company 28 years ago. At that time, I lived in a 2 bedroom flat for 3 years. My entire living area was converted into an office so I could put forth 100% effort into building a company, which by the way, would eventually employ you.
My diet consisted of baked beans, stew and soup because every dollar I spent went back into this company. I drove a rusty Toyota Corolla with a wonky transmission. I didn't have time to go out with women. Often times, I stayed home on weekends, while my friends went out drinking and partying. In fact, I was married to my business -- hard work, discipline, and sacrifice.
Meanwhile, my friends got jobs. They worked 40 hours a week and made a modest $50,000 a year and spent every dime they earned. They drove flashy cars and lived in expensive homes and wore fancy designer clothes. Instead of hitting David Jones for the latest hot fashion item, I was trolling through the discount stores extracting any clothing item that didn't look like it was birthed in the 70's. My friends refinanced their mortgages and lived a life of luxury. I, however, did not. I put my time, my money, and my life into a business with a vision that eventually, some day, I too, will be able to afford these luxuries my friends supposedly had.
So, while you physically arrive at the office at 9am, mentally check in at about noon, and then leave at 5pm, I don't. There is no "off" button for me. When you leave the office, you are done and you have a weekend all to yourself. I unfortunately do not have the freedom. I eat, and breathe this company every minute of the day. There is no rest. There is no weekend. There is no happy hour. Every day this business is attached to my hip like a 1 year old special-needs child. You, of course, only see the fruits of that garden -- the nice house, the Subaru, the vacations... you never realise the back story and the sacrifices I've made.

Now, the economy is falling apart and I, the guy who made all the right decisions and saved his money, have to bail-out all the people who didn't. The people that overspent their pay suddenly feel entitled to the same luxuries that I earned and sacrificed a decade of my life for.
Yes, business ownership has its benefits but the price I've paid is steep and not without wounds.
Unfortunately, the cost of running this business, and employing you, is starting to eclipse the threshold of marginal benefit and let me tell you why:


I am being taxed to death and the government thinks I don't pay enough. I have state taxes. Federal taxes. Property taxes. Sales and use taxes. Payroll taxes. Workers compensation. Unemployment taxes. Taxes on taxes. I have to hire an accountant to manage all these taxes and then guess what? I have to pay taxes for employing him. Government mandates and regulations and all the accounting that goes with it, now occupy most of my time. On Oct 15th, I wrote a cheque to the Australian tax Office for $288,000 for quarterly taxes. You know what my "stimulus" cheque was? Zero. Zip. Zilch.


The question I have is this: Who is stimulating the economy? Me, the guy who has provided 14 people good paying jobs and serves over 2,200,000 people per year with a flourishing business? Or, the single mother sitting at home pregnant with her fourth child waiting for her next welfare cheque? Obviously, government feels the latter is the economic stimulus of this country.


The fact is, if I deducted (Read: Stole) 50% of your pay you'd quit and you wouldn't work here. I mean, why should you? That's nuts. Who wants to get rewarded for only 50% of their hard work? Well, I agree which is why your job is in jeopardy.


Here is what many of you don't understand ... to stimulate the economy you need to stimulate what runs the economy. Had the government suddenly mandated to me that I didn't need to pay taxes, guess what? Instead of depositing that $288,000 into the Canberra black-hole, I would have spent it, hired more employees, and generated substantial economic growth. My employees would have enjoyed the wealth of that tax cut in the form of promotions and better salaries. But you can forget it now.
When you have a comatose man on the verge of death, you don't defibrillate and shock his thumb thinking that will bring him back to life, do you? Or, do you defibrillate his heart? Business is at the heart of Australia and always has been. To restart it, you must stimulate it, not kill it. But the power brokers in Canberra believe the poor of Australia are the essential drivers of the Australian economic engine. Nothing could be further from the truth and this is the type of change you can keep.


So where am I going with all this?
It's quite simple.
If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, my reaction will be swift and simple. I fire you. I fire your co-workers. You can then plead with the government to pay for your mortgage, your 4WD and your child's future. Frankly, it isn't my problem any more.
Then, I will close this company down, move to another country, and retire. You see, I'm done. I'm done with a country that penalizes the productive and gives to the unproductive. My motivation to work and to provide jobs will be destroyed, and with it, will be my citizenship.
So, if you lose your job, it won't be at the hands of the economy; it will be at the hands of politicians who swept through this country and changed its financial landscape forever. If that happens, you can find me sitting on a beach, retired, and with no employees to worry about....


Signed,
Your boss

Exactly what I've done. Left this **** hole of a country that I used to love and call my home.

Hope all the whingers get there 950$ from Krudd and p!ss it up against the wall because that is all Australia is good for nowdays, that and handouts to single mums,dole bludgers and equity junkies. At least my taxes won't be paying for it anymore.

 

[mayk]

Exactly what I've done. Left this **** hole of a country that I used to love and call my home.

Hope all the whingers get there 950$ from Krudd and p!ss it up against the wall because that is all Australia is good for nowdays, that and handouts to single mums,dole bludgers and equity junkies. At least my taxes won't be paying for it anymore.

Which country are you satisfied with?

 

[Nyden]

Exactly what I've done. Left this **** hole of a country that I used to love and call my home.

Hope all the whingers get there 950$ from Krudd and p!ss it up against the wall because that is all Australia is good for nowdays, that and handouts to single mums,dole bludgers and equity junkies. At least my taxes won't be paying for it anymore.

Australia does have problems, but it's hardly a "**** hole". I think you'll find that a near identical approach has been adopted world wide. Individuals in the US have received stimulus cheques as well, and it wouldn't shock me as to see them receiving more.

I would be curious to see if a moderator could have a gander at your IP address, as to see if you really are outside the country. I have my doubts. If you truly have only recently left (because of this - another issue I find unbelievable), then I wish you well - and hope that you find a country more suited to your liking. I have always believed that if one doesn't enjoy their surroundings, change them

Bunyip, depending on what your business is - I would have thought it would have experienced a boost after a stimulus? I would be fairly certain that many small retailers would have felt it last time. Perhaps your business is in something entirely different though.

 

[knocker]

Australia does have problems, but it's hardly a "**** hole". I think you'll find that a near identical approach has been adopted world wide. Individuals in the US have received stimulus cheques as well, and it wouldn't shock me as to see them receiving more.

I would be curious to see if a moderator could have a gander at your IP address, as to see if you really are outside the country. I have my doubts.

Did I ever say I was outside Australia at this point in time? And yes most developed nations are throwing money left right and centre into the abyss. Try thinking outside the circle bro.