Second stimulus package discussion

[Nyden]

Did I ever say I was outside Australia at this point in time? And yes most developed nations are throwing money left right and centre into the abyss. Try thinking outside the circle bro.

Yes, you did, "bro". Oh, and it's square; thinking outside the square, or box - not circle.

Exactly what I've done. Left this **** hole of a country that I used to love and call my home.

 

[bunyip]

Definitely some truth in what he says, but on the other hand, his business would be nothing, zero, zilch, without the 2,200,000 people per year he services. Without them he wouldn't have the ability to make the profit that makes him liable to pay $220,000 in tax.

True enough....he needs them and they need him. But neither of them will have each other if the government continues to tax him and other businesses out of existence.

 

[gav]

ShaunQ, how is the personal debt accumulated and household saving ratio Howards fault? The majority of 1st world countries have similar suffered the same fate since the 70's, in fact places like the UK and US are far worse!

 

[gav]

U/K:

Household savings ratio falls to lowest level in almost 50 years

Families in the UK are saving at the lowest level in almost half a century as the credit crunch squeezes into their incomes, official figures have shown.

Britons are having to dig deep into their savings as they face soaring mortgage rates, rising food and energy costs and stagnant wage increases, the statistics reveal.

The savings ratio is compiled by The Office for National Statistics and measures the proportion of a person's disposable income - after paying tax and national insurance - that is put away for a rainy day. It includes savings in bank accounts, ISAs and also pensions.

The saving ratio more than halved in the first three months of the year to 1.1% - the lowest level since 1959, when Harold Macmillan was Prime Minister.

The trend will cause major concern within the City and Whitehall: a sharp fall in the savings ratio is usually a sign that the economy is about to suffer a serious slowdown.

The ratio is now far shy of its average rate since the 1980s of 7.8%.

http://www.bestsavingsaccounts4u.co.uk/topic-111214997702bs.htm

Just 1.1%!!!! Down from over 13% in the early 90's!

 

[GumbyLearner]

Xenophon questions stimulus focus

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/07/2484930.htm?section=business

Key senators are continuing to question the spending targets outlined in the Federal Government's economic rescue plan.

The Government needs the support of the cross bench senators to get its $42 billion spending package through the Parliament.

Already the Family First Senator Steve Fielding has called for more money for the unemployed.

The Greens want to make sure new public housing is energy efficient.

Independent Senator Nick Xenophon says there may be a better way of spending the money.

"When you have a number of leading commentators saying that we should be looking at fixing at the Murray Darling Basin for instance, spending the money on fundamental infrastructure that will improve productive capacity in the economy," he said.

"That's the sort of thing that needs to be considered."

Senator Xenophon is also wondering why rich private schools are getting millions of dollars.

"The need can't be shown on any objective basis," he said.

Whenever I read about the Senator I can't help but think of that great movie
'The Warriors'

 

[gav]

Total UK personal debt at the end of December 2008 stood at £1,457bn

http://www.creditaction.org.uk/debt-statistics.html

shaunQ, why blame Howard when it was happening all over the world?

 

[bunyip]

Bunyip

some very good points ...
i sold my Day Care Centre for adults ( sorry, business )
and will not go back

Peter

Same here. Government interference/taxes/red tape had a big bearing on my decision to get out of business and semi-retire at a relatively young age.
Now I have residential rental property in growth areas of Queensland, and I trade the Foreign Exchange market. I'm still not totally immune from government taxes and interference - nobody is - but these days I enjoy a far simpler and more laid-back lifestyle than when I was running a fully fledged business with employees etc.

 

[GumbyLearner]

Total UK personal debt at the end of December 2008 stood at £1,457bn

http://www.creditaction.org.uk/debt-statistics.html

shaunQ, why blame Howard when it was happening all over the world?

Your right on this point, gav.

Almost every western country has become a debtor nation. But private debt did skyrocket during JH's time in office.

 

[knocker]

Yes, you did, "bro". Oh, and it's square; thinking outside the square, or box - not circle.

lol so you are stalking my movements right? Get a life loser

 

[Nyden]

lol so you are stalking my movements right? Get a life loser

Commenting on 2 posts, only a couple of posts apart is stalking? I'm sorry I have a higher short term memory span than that of a goldfish.

You are of course entitled to any, and all opinions knocker - All I ask is that you try to phrase some of your more harsh opinions more tactfully. Stating that countries are "**** holes", and how "fukced up" everything here is, hardly makes for good reading.

 

[bunyip]

I think you'll find that a near identical approach has been adopted world wide. Individuals in the US have received stimulus cheques as well, and it wouldn't shock me as to see them receiving more.


Bunyip, depending on what your business is - I would have thought it would have experienced a boost after a stimulus? I would be fairly certain that many small retailers would have felt it last time. Perhaps your business is in something entirely different though.

The stimulus package will give mostly only a short term boost to business.
I would have thought there are dozens of projects that the money could be better spent on.....projects that would not only provide short term stimulus, but also longer term revenue generation and jobs for decades to come.

Rudd may be duplicating an approach that's been adopted world-wide, but that doesn't mean it's the correct approach. Rudd and his cronies don't have business brains.
In fact the more I see of them, the more I doubt they have any kind of brains at all.

 

[Nyden]

Xenophon questions stimulus focus

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/07/2484930.htm?section=business

Key senators are continuing to question the spending targets outlined in the Federal Government's economic rescue plan.

The Government needs the support of the cross bench senators to get its $42 billion spending package through the Parliament.

Already the Family First Senator Steve Fielding has called for more money for the unemployed.

The Greens want to make sure new public housing is energy efficient.

Independent Senator Nick Xenophon says there may be a better way of spending the money.

"When you have a number of leading commentators saying that we should be looking at fixing at the Murray Darling Basin for instance, spending the money on fundamental infrastructure that will improve productive capacity in the economy," he said.

"That's the sort of thing that needs to be considered."

Senator Xenophon is also wondering why rich private schools are getting millions of dollars.

"The need can't be shown on any objective basis," he said.

Whenever I read about the Senator I can't help but think of that great movie
'The Warriors'

I guess Xenophon, and Fielding have some good points here : Especially with regards to the wealthy schools receiving the same amount of money as those that are poorer. My question, is that why are private schools receiving any money out of this at all? Aren't they just that - private, and not state owned? Seems odd to be injecting money directly into a private business.

The unemployed, well - I guess what I would be happy to accept, was that in return for cancelling the handouts, perhaps all benefits across the board could be increased. Pensions, unemployment benefits, and even student youth allowance (or, at the very least - make youth allowance non-income tested, so that I may work as much as I can without being penalized).

The issue about country schools is something I just can't seem to sympathize with, though. A school with only 60 students in the middle of the desert, should by no means be receiving the same amount of money as a city based school with 400. It would be immensely inefficient - much like the government forcing the telco's to build telecommunication infrastructure smack bang in the middle of Australia as to service 100 people ... but that's a whole other topic!

 

[prawn_86]

Knocker - I would love to know where you now live and how it is so much better than Aus? Every country has its own problems, and all the 'Western' countries seem to be having the same problems right now. Can you honestly tell me you dont live in a Western country?

Nyden - RE schools, i would think that they get money on a per capita basis. IE a school with 200 kids gets 4 times a school with 50 kids. Perhaps thats too logical for the gov though...

That letter is a good example of why i never want to own my own business that employs people. I have seen my old man do it and it looks too much hard work for me

 

[Nyden]

Rudd may be duplicating an approach that's been adopted world-wide, but that doesn't mean it's the correct approach. Rudd and his cronies don't have business brains.
In fact the more I see of them, the more I doubt they have any kind of brains at all.

They're politicians; it's one of their goals to perpetuate a perception of having no brains to one segment of voters, and to appear to have all the answers to the other!

What I was trying to get at, was that this individual (was it you?) in the letter was complaining about his lack of entitlement to the handout, but surely in the short term his business (and therefore, himself) will receive far more monetary benefit out of this than that one little lump sum.

Such as, a small retailer missing out on the money, but selling 50 additional TV units that month. Surely the profit of those sales would outweigh the $950. Hence the reason retailers are arguing for it.

 

[Nyden]

Knocker - I would love to know where you now live and how it is so much better than Aus? Every country has its own problems, and all the 'Western' countries seem to be having the same problems right now. Can you honestly tell me you dont live in a Western country?

Nyden - RE schools, i would think that they get money on a per capita basis. IE a school with 200 kids gets 4 times a school with 50 kids. Perhaps thats too logical for the gov though...

That letter is a good example of why i never want to own my own business that employs people. I have seen my old man do it and it looks too much hard work for me

Yes, I believe that's how it is with the schools. However, I read in one of these articles that one of the senators was upset by this - and how unjust it was for a country school to only be receiving $250,000, as opposed to millions. Which is simply nonsense. A country school with 60 kids hardly needs an entirely new science wing.

 

[knocker]

The stimulus package will give mostly only a short term boost to business.
I would have thought there are dozens of projects that the money could be better spent on.....projects that would not only provide short term stimulus, but also longer term revenue generation and jobs for decades to come.

Rudd may be duplicating an approach that's been adopted world-wide, but that doesn't mean it's the correct approach. Rudd and his cronies don't have business brains.
In fact the more I see of them, the more I doubt they have any kind of brains at all.

I guess on the flip side, some people may use the handout to pay off a credit card, bills etc. But then I just can't help thinking that perhaps these are the people who blew money on useless things like wii tatoos or pokies.

So in effect I doubt the money will be headed to shopping malls or anything constructive.

One poster suggested better irrigation as a more apt use for government funds and I tend to agree. At least we could become a little more self sufficient in these hard times instead of importing cheap food produce from abroad.

But as always that makes too much sense, and i suspect that a lot of people in this country rely heavily on bringing in cheap stuff from overseas. Oh well.

 

[Prospector]

There is a terrible story in the Advertiser (SA paper) showing how this money is being directed to scum bags. Some of you might remember last year the story in SA where three people were arrested for child neglect and cruelty to 16 children living in 1 home. Several kids were in hospital for months. The woman arrested was also about to give birth to another. Oh yeah, the Housing Trust House they trashed took weeks to clean up. The RSPCA seized the animals that were rotting there, yet the child welfate took an extra 3 days or so to take the children into care. So they are getting a nice clean new one.

Well, it seems that not only did she get the baby bonus of $5000 payable in instalments, but under Rudd's plan they will get $30,000!

 

[Prospector]

Exactly what I've done. Left this **** hole of a country that I used to love and call my home.
At least my taxes won't be paying for it anymore.

Then why do you care? Oh, I see that you havent left Australia then. Well, I'm confusen!

The first stimulus package does nothing for businesses who work with businesses.

 

[Nyden]

There is a terrible story in the Advertiser (SA paper) showing how this money is being directed to scum bags. Some of you might remember last year the story in SA where three people were arrested for child neglect and cruelty to 16 children living in 1 home. Several kids were in hospital for months. The woman arrested was also about to give birth to another. Oh yeah, the Housing Trust House they trashed took weeks to clean up. The RSPCA seized the animals that were rotting there, yet the child welfate took an extra 3 days or so to take the children into care. So they are getting a nice clean new one.

Well, it seems that not only did she get the baby bonus of $5000 payable in instalments, but under Rudd's plan they will get $30,000!

She should get nothing, simply because child services should take her children away. 16 people per one house should be illegal, simple as that. Lack of privacy can be emotionally damaging.

 

[Prospector]

She should get nothing, simply because child services should take her children away. 16 people per one house should be illegal, simple as that. Lack of privacy can be emotionally damaging.

You would think, wouldn't you! Will see if I can find the link to it.