Israel in the Gaza Strip

[disarray]

it's also a bit of a trap as well, because unlike christianity, the punishment for leaving islam is death. religion of peace and tolerance for sure

 

[rowie]

it's also a bit of a trap as well, because unlike christianity, the punishment for leaving islam is death. religion of peace and tolerance for sure

You are well and truly clueless.

 

[rowie]

well look at the foundation of the religion. jesus is well documented as cruising around palestine healing the sick, preaching peace, tolerance, loving thy neighbour and suffering the little children to be brought unto him. mohammed on the other hand rampaged around the middle east killing jews, taking and raping slaves, pillaging trade caravans and having sex with underage girls.

by their works shall ye judge them. why is that so difficult to understand??

Are u for real? I recommend you read "No God but God" by Raja Ezlan. It will enlighten u and lift u out of your ignorance on this religion,

 

[rowie]

Are u for real? I recommend you read "No God but God" by Raja Ezlan. It will enlighten u and lift u out of your ignorance on this religion,

Correction - author of the book is Reza Aslan. Its an easy ready and pretty balanced. Lots of work put into it and well referenced. Overall excellent book on Islamic history and development.

 

[lucas]

With a title like "No God But God", how could that book ever be a balanced work? Why have you chosen to put your critical faculties on permanent ice?

 

[IFocus]

You are well and truly clueless.

Worked with a Pakistani engineer and asked him about this, he said if he chose to leave Islam it would be extremely dangerous to return back to Pakistan.

 

[wayneL]

In today's Telegraph (understand that I am only posting what is in the headlines, without opinion);

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...aza-safe-house-full-off-evacuees-says-UN.html

Israel bombed Gaza 'safe' house full off evacuees, says UN
The United Nations has accused Israeli forces of evacuating 110 Palestinians into a house in Gaza which they then shelled 24 hours later.

By Damien McElroy in Jerusalem
Last Updated: 1:32PM GMT 09 Jan 2009

It said that "according to several testimonies, on 4 January Israeli foot soldiers evacuated approximately the people into a single-residence house in Zeitun, half of whom were children, warning them to stay indoors.

But 24-hours later, Israeli forces shelled the home repeatedly, killing between 30 and 60 people.

The UN Office for the Co-ordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) called it "one of the gravest incidents since the beginning of operations" by Israeli forces in Gaza on December 27.

"Those who survived and were able walked two kilometres to Salah Ed Din road before being transported to hospital in civilian vehicles. Three children, the youngest of whom was five months old, died upon arrival at the hospital," OCHA said in a report on the situation in the battered Gaza Strip............

 

[rowie]

With a title like "No God But God", how could that book ever be a balanced work? Why have you chosen to put your critical faculties on permanent ice?

Lucas, dont judge a book by its title or cover. Read first and then judge. It is a moderate take on the religion. Points out both the positive and negative aspects of Islam and its growth including the fanatical aspect. You will feel truly embarrased by your comment after reading it I assure you. No offence, but saying the book is not balanced based on what it is called is juvenile and downright brainless.

 

[Sean K]

Are u for real? I recommend you read "No God but God" by Raja Ezlan. It will enlighten u and lift u out of your ignorance on this religion,

I've read the book and while very good I don't believe it is the view of most people in the Middle East who are more dogmatic and fundamental in their beliefs about the history of Islam and in interpreting the Koran in the modern word. Interesting to note that this person grew up in the States and completed all their education there.

As for the title not being important, it actually is. It is the basis of Islam and an indication of it's inability to accept other cultures and people, like most other hardline cults.


(On a Mod note, please stop playing the man and argue your point without resorting to personal abuse. Thanks.)

 

[Whiskers]

In today's Telegraph (understand that I am only posting what is in the headlines, without opinion);

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...aza-safe-house-full-off-evacuees-says-UN.html

Maybe a better balanced perspective.

GAZA CITY (AFP) - - A defiant Israel pounded Gaza with bombs and shells on Friday, vowing to pursue its war on Hamas despite a truce order from the UN Security Council, amid warnings the territory was running out of food.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Israel would not bow to "outside influence" as its aircraft carried out more bombing and the army's tanks shelled several locations despite an announced three-hour "humanitarian" lull.

Hamas meanwhile also rejected the United Nations resolution which called for an "immediate, durable" ceasefire on the grounds that it only served Israel's interests.

Two weeks on from the start of Operation Cast Lead, at least 785 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces, according to medics in Gaza.

Gaza medics say children account for 230 of the victims and 92 women have also been killed.

Pressure on the two sides increased with a late night UN Security Council resolution which demanded an "immediate, durable" ceasefire leading to the "full withdrawal" of Israeli forces from Gaza.

Fourteen of the 15 council members voted in favour. The United States, Israel's main ally, abstained but refrained from vetoing the resolution agreed after lengthy negotiations between Arab and Western foreign ministers.

The moderate Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas, whose power is limited to the West Bank, called the UN move an "important step," but stressed that applying it was key.

The response from Olmert however was dismissive, calling it "impractical" in the face of continued rocket attacks by Hamas.

Israel launched its war against the Islamists on December 27 aiming to end rocket attacks in southern Israel and the smuggling of weapons into Gaza from Egypt.

"Israel has never agreed for any outside influence to decide on its right to defend its citizens," Olmert said in a statement.

"The IDF (Israel Defence Forces) will continue to operate in order to defend the citizens of Israel and will carry out the task it was given for the operation," said the statement, which was released as his security cabinet met.

A senior official later confirmed the security cabinet had decided to continue the offensive in Gaza despite the security council resolution.

"The ministers reiterated Israel's full right to defend its citizens to which end the IDF will continue its operations," the official told AFP on condition of anonymity.

A Hamas official in Beirut, Raafat Morra, said his group was also rejecting the UN resolution, as "it is not in the best interest of the Palestinian people...

http://malaysia.news.yahoo.com/afp/20090107/tts-mideast-conflict-gaza-a9aa023.html
"

So... putting my Conflict Resolution hat on, and bearing in mind that to resolve a conflict one has to apply rigid logic and common sense as enshrined in Common Law as is the basis of International Law... one has to again ask what do Hamas want in order to cease fire... again the only clue to an answer they have ever given is the annihilation of Israel.

The Palastine president Abbas is clearly interested in a cease fire but since Hamas have the guns and insist on continuing on shooting, one really has to wonder what the Palastine people want.

I wonder what answer a secret ballot in the region would give!

 

[Whiskers]

In today's Telegraph (understand that I am only posting what is in the headlines, without opinion);

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...aza-safe-house-full-off-evacuees-says-UN.html

Maybe a better balanced perspective.

GAZA CITY (AFP) - - A defiant Israel pounded Gaza with bombs and shells on Friday, vowing to pursue its war on Hamas despite a truce order from the UN Security Council, amid warnings the territory was running out of food.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Israel would not bow to "outside influence" as its aircraft carried out more bombing and the army's tanks shelled several locations despite an announced three-hour "humanitarian" lull.

Hamas meanwhile also rejected the United Nations resolution which called for an "immediate, durable" ceasefire on the grounds that it only served Israel's interests.

Two weeks on from the start of Operation Cast Lead, at least 785 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces, according to medics in Gaza.

Gaza medics say children account for 230 of the victims and 92 women have also been killed.

Pressure on the two sides increased with a late night UN Security Council resolution which demanded an "immediate, durable" ceasefire leading to the "full withdrawal" of Israeli forces from Gaza.

Fourteen of the 15 council members voted in favour. The United States, Israel's main ally, abstained but refrained from vetoing the resolution agreed after lengthy negotiations between Arab and Western foreign ministers.

The moderate Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas, whose power is limited to the West Bank, called the UN move an "important step," but stressed that applying it was key.

The response from Olmert however was dismissive, calling it "impractical" in the face of continued rocket attacks by Hamas.

Israel launched its war against the Islamists on December 27 aiming to end rocket attacks in southern Israel and the smuggling of weapons into Gaza from Egypt.

"Israel has never agreed for any outside influence to decide on its right to defend its citizens," Olmert said in a statement.

"The IDF (Israel Defence Forces) will continue to operate in order to defend the citizens of Israel and will carry out the task it was given for the operation," said the statement, which was released as his security cabinet met.

A senior official later confirmed the security cabinet had decided to continue the offensive in Gaza despite the security council resolution.

"The ministers reiterated Israel's full right to defend its citizens to which end the IDF will continue its operations," the official told AFP on condition of anonymity.

A Hamas official in Beirut, Raafat Morra, said his group was also rejecting the UN resolution, as "it is not in the best interest of the Palestinian people...

http://malaysia.news.yahoo.com/afp/20090107/tts-mideast-conflict-gaza-a9aa023.html
"

So... putting my Conflict Resolution hat on, and bearing in mind that to resolve a conflict one has to apply rigid logic and common sense as enshrined in Common Law as is the basis of International Law... one has to again ask what do Hamas want in order to cease fire... again the only clue to an answer they have ever given is the annihilation of Israel.

The Palastine president Abbas is clearly interested in a cease fire but since Hamas have the guns and insist on continuing on shooting, one really has to wonder what the Palastine people want.

I wonder what answer a secret ballot in the region would give!

PS: If Hamas has the palastine peoples interest at heart, why don't they get out of the populated areas to fight Israels army... but I guess there's too much 'innocent civilian casualities propaganda' to be made by them keeping innocent civilians between them and Israeli soldiers.

 

[lucas]

No offence, but saying the book is not balanced based on what it is called is juvenile and downright brainless.

I'm not offended.

"Hi guys, I'm Reza Azlan, and I've just written this balanced look about a bunch of people whose credo is "Nobody is right except us" and guess what? It's the title of the book. You'll just love it! And I believe it too."

Or are you saying that he is simply an enthusiast? ("No Car But Holden"). I don't think so. Life is too short to bother with such extreme viewpoints.

 

[Uncle Barry]

At least 780 Palestinians have died in the conflict and 3,200 have been wounded, said Mu’awia Hassanein, chief of emergency medical services

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aeedxLuX.mMc&refer=home

 

[Macquack]

PS: If Hamas has the palastine peoples interest at heart, why don't they get out of the populated areas to fight Israels army... but I guess there's too much 'innocent civilian casualities propaganda' to be made by them keeping innocent civilians between them and Israeli soldiers.

Whiskers, you talk about "conflict resolution" and attempt to take an educated approach to the current situation. However, the major concern at the moment is "civilian casualties", so dont dismiss the core issue by referring to it as "innocent civilian casualities propaganda"

Innocent civilian casualties ARE NOT "propaganda".

 

[numbercruncher]

If the Israelis have been ordered by their Western masters to halt bombing they should do as they are told.

 

[lucas]

Since Hamas has officially rejected the UN ceasefire, they are officially complicit in those deaths and wounded figures.

Actually, Macquack, although I take the underlying point you are making; innocent civilian casualties can be propaganda (just read UB's comments) - repellent as that may be. You might say, "all's fair in love and war".

 

[wayneL]

Whiskers, you talk about "conflict resolution" and attempt to take an educated approach to the current situation. However, the major concern at the moment is "civilian casualties", so dont dismiss the core issue by referring to it as "innocent civilian casualities propaganda"

Innocent civilian casualties ARE NOT "propaganda".

Whiskers is just putting his bias on display.

Conflict resolution hat? Pffffft!

 

[Macquack]

If the Israelis have been ordered by their Western masters to halt bombing they should do as they are told.

Hi numbercruncher, how is your leg going?

When is the USA going to stop pandering to Israel?

Late Thursday the UN Security Council voted overwhelmingly to call for an immmediate ceasefire in Gaza leading to a withdrawal of Israeli troops.
The 15-member council passed the agreement by 14-0 at the UN headquarters in New York following days of intense haggling by foreign ministers.

The United States - Israel's closest ally - abstained in the vote (AGAIN).

 

[Sean K]

Hi numbercruncher, how is your leg going?

When is the USA going to stop pandering to Israel?

Too many donations and votes tied up in that one..

 

[lucas]

When is the USA going to stop pandering to Israel?

Late Thursday the UN Security Council voted overwhelmingly to call for an immmediate ceasefire in Gaza leading to a withdrawal of Israeli troops.
The 15-member council passed the agreement by 14-0 at the UN headquarters in New York following days of intense haggling by foreign ministers.

The United States - Israel's closest ally - abstained in the vote (AGAIN).

Perhaps they are the only country in the Council that believes - above and beyond the need to stop fighting - that a state has the right to defend itself.

I disagree with it, but perhaps America wants to be able to use that position to defend its own actions one day and reserves that right.