Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

[SirRumpole]

Yeah I don't subscribe to the "religions are the main cause" for wars and deaths.

In some cases religions are the cause of war. Shiites vs Sunnis, Iraq v Iran etc. Millions of deaths in that war.

But mostly there are other reasons, resources being the main one, and psychopathic despotism.

 

[Tisme]

In some cases religions are the cause of war. Shiites vs Sunnis, Iraq v Iran etc. Millions of deaths in that war.

But mostly there are other reasons, resources being the main one, and psychopathic despotism.

Empire building

 

[Tisme]

We've been through this.

How many civil liberties and rights have been remove from us for this war on terror?

Anyway...

Perhaps admitting the truth of it being a party for heterodoxies on one side and heretics on the other might be a way of stopping the slide? I'm fairly sure the antagonists derive some delight in the game they are playing.

 

[noco]

In some cases religions are the cause of war. Shiites vs Sunnis, Iraq v Iran etc. Millions of deaths in that war.

But mostly there are other reasons, resources being the main one, and psychopathic despotism.

Rumpy, back in the 30's we protestant kids were always fighting with the Catholic kids in the neighborhood.......Shangeyes where the weapon of the day.....Hard to believe but true....Religion once again the cause of the fighting.

 

[luutzu]

Rumpy, back in the 30's we protestant kids were always fighting with the Catholic kids in the neighborhood.......Shangeyes where the weapon of the day.....Hard to believe but true....Religion once again the cause of the fighting.

See? Christians and White people weren't always buddies.

 

[noco]

See? Christians and White people weren't always buddies.

We were all white people Luu...Just at the time we hated each others guts......Both religions used to pray.....Pray for what and did praying help to make friends?....I think not at the time....One of the reasons I became agnostic.

 

[luutzu]

We were all white people Luu...Just at the time we hated each others guts......Both religions used to pray.....Pray for what and did praying help to make friends?....I think not at the time....One of the reasons I became agnostic.

I guess it goes to show that when the Masters of Man want a war, they will somehow, some ways, find a point of difference and use that to sow hatred among the plebs. That and a bit of pay and they got themselves soldiers going to fight for freedom and liberty and a whole lot of loots and war booties.

The soldiers who survive get a medal or two, go back home to farm with their injuries and scars... the Masters get bigger castles and mansions and new found land.

Same old, same all across all cultures and race.

I think Patrick Colburn, a British journalist and ME expert, was saying how we're told that the ME is a wreck because of religion and sectarian violence, Sunni/Shiite hatred etc. Leaving aside how that happen and assuming "we" have nothing to do with it...

He was saying how in Libya, where they're all of the same sect and after "we" knock out Gaddafi and throw the whole country into a civil war... The WH and press explain the war as an East and West Libya thing.

You know, the Libyan in the East hates the Libyans in the western part of the country.

 

[Value Collector]

There is only one Muslim and they are the ones who follow the Koran and I am sure you are well versed in how it reads....If you are not sure then do some research on the Koran and its interpretation of it's contents....It may be an eye opener for you.......

Same can be said for the Bible, can you think of anything objectionable in the Qu'ran (Koran) that isn't also represented in the Bible?

 

[SirRumpole]

Same can be said for the Bible, can you think of anything objectionable in the Qu'ran (Koran) that isn't also represented in the Bible?

There is a lot of bad stuff in the OT, but from what I've seen most modern Christians ignore the OT and follow the NT.

Sure there are Christian and Jewish extremists, but they don't seem to be the ones doing the damage at the moment.

 

[Value Collector]

There is a lot of bad stuff in the OT, but from what I've seen most modern Christians ignore the OT and follow the NT.

Sure there are Christian and Jewish extremists, but they don't seem to be the ones doing the damage at the moment.

They love the Ten Commandments, and thats from the OT

The New Testament does say that gays a worthy of death, which when combined with the teaching of the OT, is pretty clear.

But just as most Jews and christians ignore the bad bits and try and explain them away, so do most muslims.

 

[SirRumpole]

They love the Ten Commandments, and thats from the OT

The New Testament does say that gays a worthy of death, which when combined with the teaching of the OT, is pretty clear.

But just as most Jews and christians ignore the bad bits and try and explain them away, so do most muslims.

There is no NT in the Koran and there are enough hard line Muslims around to keep on causing problems around the world.

If the hard line Muslims take over the "moderates" will fall in line like sheep, because they will then have power over the infidels.

 

[Value Collector]

There is no NT in the Koran and there are enough hard line Muslims around to keep on causing problems around the world.

If the hard line Muslims take over the "moderates" will fall in line like sheep, because they will then have power over the infidels.

The Jews don't accept the NT, yet they are still able to ignore the bad bits of the ot mostly.

But Noco would have you believe the best way of taking power away from the Islamic extremists is to treat the moderates like crap, thats just silly, causing more polarisation gives power back to the extremists.

In reality the only answer is to treat the moderates well, showing them the benefits of secular society, while all along steadily slowing them to become less religious by debunking their religious claims.

 

[SirRumpole]

In reality the only answer is to treat the moderates well, showing them the benefits of secular society, while all along steadily slowing them to become less religious by debunking their religious claims.

Yes, that's fair enough, but there doesn't seem to be much debunking of religion going on by national leaders, it's more like politically correct nonsense about everyone's right to choose what they believe, even though a lot of them are held to a religion by fear and threats.

Most of our political leaders are simply afraid of religions and the power they hold over their voting congregations.

 

[Value Collector]

Yes, that's fair enough, but there doesn't seem to be much debunking of religion going on by national leaders, it's more like politically correct nonsense about everyone's right to choose what they believe, even though a lot of them are held to a religion by fear and threats.

Most of our political leaders are simply afraid of religions and the power they hold over their voting congregations.

Freedom of religion is very important, without it secular society can't exist or grow.

In fact when you see me defending peoples religious rights e.g. Halal, it is not because of a love of religion, it's because I understand banning religions does nothing but cause polarisation and a shrinking of secular culture.

It sounds counter intuitive, but allowing people freedom to choose and practice their religion tends to make them take it less seriously, because when you see 20 different types of religions all believing different things, you start to have doubts, especially if the people you have been taught to fear are polite and welcoming, if they sneer at you and look down on you, you retreat back to your core beliefs.

 

[SirRumpole]

It sounds counter intuitive, but allowing people freedom to choose and practice their religion tends to make them take it less seriously, because when you see 20 different types of religions all believing different things, you start to have doubts, especially if the people you have been taught to few are polite and welcoming, if they sneer at you and look down on you, you retreat back to your core beliefs.

Sure I get that. The essential question that we are discussing though is whether we keep digging a hole for ourselves by admitting more people who could potentially be a problem.

Desensitising people from religion is going to take a long time, and it makes no sense to me to make that a bigger problem than we already have.

 

[Tink]

Our Christian heritage is not a religion.

I have no interest in your religion of PC, therefore I will be saying whatever I choose.

Political correctness - the devil!
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/political-correctness-the-devil.13663/

 

[luutzu]

There is a lot of bad stuff in the OT, but from what I've seen most modern Christians ignore the OT and follow the NT.

Sure there are Christian and Jewish extremists, but they don't seem to be the ones doing the damage at the moment.

You haven't seen Trump's Cabinet pick?

There's full of right wing religious nuts and White supremacists. The rest are just after money and military hardware.

 

[luutzu]

Our Christian heritage is not a religion.

I have no interest in your religion of PC, therefore I will be saying whatever I choose.

Political correctness - the devil!
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/threads/political-correctness-the-devil.13663/

So it's heritage, then?

You know, a whole lot of things are, has been, done in the name of Christianity that if I'm a Christian I'd be pretty peed off about it.

 

[Value Collector]

Sure I get that. The essential question that we are discussing though is whether we keep digging a hole for ourselves by admitting more people who could potentially be a problem.

Desensitising people from religion is going to take a long time, and it makes no sense to me to make that a bigger problem than we already have.

Having a religious test / Muslim ban would be stupid.

Most terrorists are home grown, so if you really want to stop the threat of future terrorism try and stop the Pauline Hanson types bad mouthing a minority group and trying to make them feel like second class citizens who aren't real Australian's, and quit trying to ban the burqa etc.

The biggest thing that will make a terrorist is a child growing up seeing their mother and father sneered at and treated like crap, and feeling like they aren't Australian and that they have to stay in their closed off little echo chamber.

 

[Value Collector]

Rumpy, back in the 30's we protestant kids were always fighting with the Catholic kids in the neighborhood.......Shangeyes where the weapon of the day.....Hard to believe but true....Religion once again the cause of the fighting.

In Ireland the Catholics used a lot more than Shangeyes, you were more likely to be ambushed by Armalites or something from Heckler and Kosh.