Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

[noco]

Nice to see some more Pauline Hanson supports on ASF.....She is gaining lots of traction on this subject.

 

[luutzu]

Good rant, but for once I do not agree with you.


I am not concerned about the terrorism hype. I don't like any religion being in my face and I believe these face coverings are a form of oppression of women. How do deaf people deal with people with their face covered? How do other people recognize them? I think the French government has got it right on this issue.

From Wikipedia

If others were to do what we like, how we like it, then there's not much freedom there.

I'm with you, and a lot of "normal" people, in thinking that maybe covering up like that is too much. But then who are we to tell people how to dress. People are not supposed to dress in ways to make other people feel comfortable.


It might very well be that a burqa demeans and oppress women; and so society should help those women and let them go out into the open. That's all good, but banning the Burqa is not going to achieve that.

If those women are oppressed, if their husband is abusive - there are laws that will help them.

How are those women going to get help if they can't get out and meet people?

If the law was intended to get those women to live in the community, how does banning and forcing them to stay at home going to help that?

As wrong as it might sound, maybe those wearing the burqa are comfortable with it. It's what they were brought up, and without being abused or forced, find that that's how they are modest and filial to their faith.

Who are we to say, na, we don't accept that kind of voodoo.

Maybe letting them out in contact with other women might change their mind.


Where I live, I saw women in burqa and face/headscarf walking around, doing the shopping and stuff. To ban them from going out in public is not better than the bloody Taliban banning them from going outside without a male guardian - just make life more difficult, and further isolate them.


So yea, unless someone's rights would harm others, it should not be taken away from them just to make others feel good. I mean, some would prefer all women to wear bikinis, or show lots of skin... should we ban clothes that cover "too much"?

 

[nioka]

If others were to do what we like, how we like it, then there's not much freedom there.

I'm with you, and a lot of "normal" people, in thinking that maybe covering up like that is too much. But then who are we to tell people how to dress. People are not supposed to dress in ways to make other people feel comfortable.


It might very well be that a burqa demeans and oppress women; and so society should help those women and let them go out into the open. That's all good, but banning the Burqa is not going to achieve that.

If those women are oppressed, if their husband is abusive - there are laws that will help them.

How are those women going to get help if they can't get out and meet people?

If the law was intended to get those women to live in the community, how does banning and forcing them to stay at home going to help that?

As wrong as it might sound, maybe those wearing the burqa are comfortable with it. It's what they were brought up, and without being abused or forced, find that that's how they are modest and filial to their faith.

Who are we to say, na, we don't accept that kind of voodoo.

Maybe letting them out in contact with other women might change their mind.


Where I live, I saw women in burqa and face/headscarf walking around, doing the shopping and stuff. To ban them from going out in public is not better than the bloody Taliban banning them from going outside without a male guardian - just make life more difficult, and further isolate them.


So yea, unless someone's rights would harm others, it should not be taken away from them just to make others feel good. I mean, some would prefer all women to wear bikinis, or show lots of skin... should we ban clothes that cover "too much"?

Fair enough but.
Should they have photo ID for a drivers licence. The rest of us have to.
Should they be allowed into a bank. Motor bike riders have to take off a helmet to enter a bank.

 

[luutzu]

Nice to see some more Pauline Hanson supports on ASF.....She is gaining lots of traction on this subject.

Hanson is just another politician saying whatever to fill that niche of voters so she could get a job.

Beside not liking Muslims, or Chinese, or Asian, or other minorities... what else has she done to make the lives of Australian better?

If a person really take their job seriously, take their responsibilities seriously, and that person has political power... they won't still be talking about race and minorities but little else after all these years.

It's not even my day job and I already have an opinion about whether the corporate tax cuts is going to create job or not. I don't need to wait for the Liberal party hacks who came up with the idea to sell me on it. Freaking YouTube, call up a few university economists; talk to workers etc. etc.

What else could beggar the average Aussies beside illegals and Muslims? I wouldn't put too much faith in people wrapping themselves in the flag and beating up on small funny looking people to feel the pain of other small white people.

 

[luutzu]

Fair enough but.
Should they have photo ID for a drivers licence. The rest of us have to.
Should they be allowed into a bank. Motor bike riders have to take off a helmet to enter a bank.

Helmet and hats aren't religious or cultural wears right?

I remember reading before that their religion permit other women to see their face/ID them. So at airport, or bank or taking license ID... as long as it's a female looking at them, it's fine.

That's strange and sure, we could all do without that kind of hassle... that's why not many countries are free or democratic.

 

[nioka]

what else has she done to make the lives of Australian better?

.

She made damn good fish and chips.

She also brought into the political arena the thoughts of a large percentage of Australians.

 

[Macquack]

I'm with you, and a lot of "normal" people, in thinking that maybe covering up like that is too much. But then who are we to tell people how to dress. People are not supposed to dress in ways to make other people feel comfortable.

You can't walk around naked in public, that is illegal. Well you can't walk around in France with a sack on your head. Where is the loss of freedom, it is a beat up.

If those women are oppressed, if their husband is abusive - there are laws that will help them.

Many would disagree with that over simplistic answer. Many women subject to abuse become trapped and are too scared to get help.

How are those women going to get help if they can't get out and meet people?

My observation is these women are not meeting too many people with their faces all but completely covered.

If the law was intended to get those women to live in the community, how does banning and forcing them to stay at home going to help that?

The ban does not force them to stay at home. There is no culture in the world where males do the shopping.

As wrong as it might sound, maybe those wearing the burqa are comfortable with it. It's what they were brought up, and without being abused or forced, find that that's how they are modest and filial to their faith.

I have heard that argument, but I think it is just an excuse to continue to oppress women.

Who are we to say, na, we don't accept that kind of voodoo.

The French government comprehensively said "na".

So yea, unless someone's rights would harm others, it should not be taken away from them just to make others feel good. I mean, some would prefer all women to wear bikinis, or show lots of skin... should we ban clothes that cover "too much"?

Yes, too little is already banned. So to ban too much, as in you can't even see a persons face, is reasonable to me.

Anyway, Au Revoir my friend.

 

[SirRumpole]

Regarding the burqua, should we allow people to walk around in chains or handcuffs if their religion says so ?

This is a country where people should be free. Women who are required to wear burquas may well be the subject of forced marriages, that's anti freedom in itself.

Then there is the identification issue. A way of doing criminal acts without being recognised.

All up there are more reasons to ban the burqua than to keep it.

 

[noco]

Regarding the burqua, should we allow people to walk around in chains or handcuffs if their religion says so ?

This is a country where people should be free. Women who are required to wear burquas may well be the subject of forced marriages, that's anti freedom in itself.

Then there is the identification issue. A way of doing criminal acts without being recognised.

All up there are more reasons to ban the burqua than to keep it.

Geez Rumpy, we are the same wave link again...

You are starting think like Pauline.....I believe she would have gained a lot of support from SBS last night.

 

[wayneL]

Yeah!!! What right have we got to ban the mutilation of little girl genitals luu?

 

[Tink]

Is that the same as the gays mutilating their children's gender?

 

[Tisme]

If others were to do what we like, how we like it, then there's not much freedom there.

I'm with you, and a lot of "normal" people, in thinking that maybe covering up like that is too much. But then who are we to tell people how to dress. People are not supposed to dress in ways to make other people feel comfortable.


It might very well be that a burqa demeans and oppress women; and so society should help those women and let them go out into the open. That's all good, but banning the Burqa is not going to achieve that.

If those women are oppressed, if their husband is abusive - there are laws that will help them.

How are those women going to get help if they can't get out and meet people?

If the law was intended to get those women to live in the community, how does banning and forcing them to stay at home going to help that?

As wrong as it might sound, maybe those wearing the burqa are comfortable with it. It's what they were brought up, and without being abused or forced, find that that's how they are modest and filial to their faith.

Who are we to say, na, we don't accept that kind of voodoo.

Maybe letting them out in contact with other women might change their mind.


Where I live, I saw women in burqa and face/headscarf walking around, doing the shopping and stuff. To ban them from going out in public is not better than the bloody Taliban banning them from going outside without a male guardian - just make life more difficult, and further isolate them.


So yea, unless someone's rights would harm others, it should not be taken away from them just to make others feel good. I mean, some would prefer all women to wear bikinis, or show lots of skin... should we ban clothes that cover "too much"?

I think your arguments are predicated on a prejudice that muslim women have the same power fit as Australian and at least what SE Asian women enjoy. There is no way that middle eastern and sub continent muslim femmes have an honest independent voice and freedom of choice... it's just plain anti islam to allow it.

Men parading women and worse; women parading women as bedouins, when the saharan sands and camels are a long lost memory is nothing more than a deliberate insult to the prevailing host free nation that is sheltering them from their own endemically diseased culture. It's disgraceful the way women are treated by arabic and stan muslims and the uptake of Stockholm syndrome amongst the women themselves ....



... unless of course we are being spared this:

 

[moXJO]

I am not concerned about the terrorism hype. I don't like any religion being in my face.

This^^^^^

Religion should be a private thing worshipped at home. I'd be happy to ban every religion.
People seem to mix race and religion together- but religion is a choice. It should not have a voice in modern society. The moment it begins to voice it's opinions on how the masses should behave it becomes the "oppressor" not a "freedom".
And that is how religion has always spread. It's like a virus and was used to control the masses.

 

[Gringotts Bank]

This^^^^^
... but religion is a choice.

That's the whole problem. It's rarely a choice.

The more primitive the religion, the more likely the community's identity is enmeshed in it. To break free is to risk excomunication or even death.

 

[bellenuit]

That's the whole problem. It's rarely a choice.

The more primitive the religion, the more likely the community's identity is enmeshed in it. To break free is to risk excomunication or even death.

Plus the psychological trauma associated with years of indoctrination that Hell awaits those who leave or do not follow the chosen path.

 

[moXJO]

That's the whole problem. It's rarely a choice.

The more primitive the religion, the more likely the community's identity is enmeshed in it. To break free is to risk excomunication or even death.

I should clarify that I was talking about Australia. Not Afghanistan.

But that is the problem with Islam. Their whole identity is wrapped up in their religion. But when given enough freedom then religion does start taking a back seat.
It's the social retards with to much time on their hands I worry about

 

[luutzu]

You can't walk around naked in public, that is illegal. Well you can't walk around in France with a sack on your head. Where is the loss of freedom, it is a beat up.

You know what they say about people who like walking around naked... they're often the type whose body really shouldn't be showing in public That and there are kids around.

A burqa is their dress code, not a sack.

I know a guy who wouldn't be caught dead in public wearing BigW or otherwise unbranded clothes. He tells his wife she shouldn't dress so poorly either.

Many would disagree with that over simplistic answer. Many women subject to abuse become trapped and are too scared to get help.

Maybe they are, maybe they're not. We can't assume. That'd be like suing parents whose daughter dress in short shorts or EMO or whatever thinking they must not be teaching them right.

My observation is these women are not meeting too many people with their faces all but completely covered.

I saw two or three walking together. But they'd really be stuck at home if their dress code are banned.

The ban does not force them to stay at home. There is no culture in the world where males do the shopping.

I'm not sure how a burqa let you shop, how do you grab stuff.. but anyway.

I have heard that argument, but I think it is just an excuse to continue to oppress women.

It probably was designed that way by some insecure religious idiot. But for those who grew up with that norm, maybe give them time and the husband can see that ey, maybe it's more comfortable for my wife to not be so covered. It's sunny here but not that freaking sunny.

The French government comprehensively said "na".

Not all French I'm sure. But let's ban the eating of frog and snails and rabbits... those freaks actually eat that. Dogs I can understand, and even that is banned

Yes, too little is already banned. So to ban too much, as in you can't even see a persons face, is reasonable to me.

Anyway, Au Revoir my friend.

As one of our dear Senators once told a Irish [Scottish?] Senator, we speak Australian here mate.

 

[luutzu]

Regarding the burqua, should we allow people to walk around in chains or handcuffs if their religion says so ?

This is a country where people should be free. Women who are required to wear burquas may well be the subject of forced marriages, that's anti freedom in itself.

Then there is the identification issue. A way of doing criminal acts without being recognised.

All up there are more reasons to ban the burqua than to keep it.

Yeah!!! What right have we got to ban the mutilation of little girl genitals luu?

Australia, and Australian, I find are very tolerant... but we're not that tolerant right? We don't permit cultural or personal practices that goes against Australian law and principles/values

So no corporal punishments, cruelty to animals, under-age marriage, spousal abuse, genital mutilation etc.

How does people's religion/cultural dress code infringe on Australian values and freedom and all that?

Sure we can assume those women should know better and want different if they are free... maybe. But banning their dress code would more likely keep them at home and isolated than liberating them.

 

[luutzu]

I think your arguments are predicated on a prejudice that muslim women have the same power fit as Australian and at least what SE Asian women enjoy. There is no way that middle eastern and sub continent muslim femmes have an honest independent voice and freedom of choice... it's just plain anti islam to allow it.

Men parading women and worse; women parading women as bedouins, when the saharan sands and camels are a long lost memory is nothing more than a deliberate insult to the prevailing host free nation that is sheltering them from their own endemically diseased culture. It's disgraceful the way women are treated by arabic and stan muslims and the uptake of Stockholm syndrome amongst the women themselves ....



... unless of course we are being spared this:

View attachment 67594

I've met enough Arab/Muslim women to know that they're not as mousy and quiet or helpless as we might think.

Yea well, maybe it's their way of not getting skin cancer living in Australia. No need for slip slop slap.

Your jokes can be too... mmm deep. Dumb it down a few notch McGuiness.

 

[SirRumpole]

Sure we can assume those women should know better and want different if they are free... maybe. But banning their dress code would more likely keep them at home and isolated than liberating them.

Maybe they may have the guts to get out of a dominated relationship if they no longer have to wear the chains of submission.