Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

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Gringotts Bank said:
I guess I'm confused about what it is modern Australian Muslims actually believe. I've only ever met one (a family, actually), and I was too afraid to ask.
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I think if you dig deep enough you may find it's a cultural habit for a lot of religious people. It's something they have always done, a social gathering that makes them feel included, the actual belief system may be of secondary importance, more spoken than acted on.

Except for the terrorists that is.
 
qldfrog said:
True once shariah is set, no more bombing, no more issues, all salafism joy and harmony; and then no change whatsoever for the next millenium.
We could start saving on DV and feminism campaign, LGT referendum.
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Yea, Muslims will rule the world. How? With what army? With what Navy? With what Airforce?

How are they going to convert infidels towards Islam? With swords? Bringing swords to a nuke fight?

We in the West have the biggest, most advanced military in the entire history of the world. And we're thinking, seriously believing, that Muslims will take over us.

But keep liberating the ME, pick fights with Russia and fight terrorism all over the world and everywhere at home... keep that up and watch what will happen.
 
Why has Islam thrived? One answer direct from the horses mouth. The killing of apostates. Combine the killing of apostates with a larger than average birth rate and a belief that your are born a Muslim (hence rejection is by definition apostasy) and you have the ingredients for a thriving religion.

Yusuf al-Qaradawi: Killing Of Apostates Is Essential For Islam To Survive



APOSTASY: “WHOEVER CHANGES HIS (ISLAMIC) RELIGION, KILL HIM”

http://sheikyermami.com/apostasy-whoever-changes-his-islamic-religion-kill-him/
 
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luutzu said:
Yea, Muslims will rule the world. How? With what army? With what Navy? With what Airforce?

How are they going to convert infidels towards Islam? With swords? Bringing swords to a nuke fight?

We in the West have the biggest, most advanced military in the entire history of the world. And we're thinking, seriously believing, that Muslims will take over us.

But keep liberating the ME, pick fights with Russia and fight terrorism all over the world and everywhere at home... keep that up and watch what will happen.
Click to expand...
You are blind beyond redemption, but yes ME ME ME ME that is the only reason of the evil of this world .
Anyway, won't bother you anymore in your lunacy: I have been here for month lining up facts, actual lived experience and arguments to no avail. Bye .
 
bellenuit said:
Why has Islam thrived? One answer direct from the horses mouth. The killing of apostates. Combine the killing of apostates with a larger than average birth rate and a belief that your are born a Muslim (hence rejection is by definition apostasy) and you have the ingredients for a thriving religion.

Yusuf al-Qaradawi: Killing Of Apostates Is Essential For Islam To Survive



APOSTASY: “WHOEVER CHANGES HIS (ISLAMIC) RELIGION, KILL HIM”

http://sheikyermami.com/apostasy-whoever-changes-his-islamic-religion-kill-him/
Click to expand...


I think the word you're looking for is "spawn", not thrive.

The good thing about YouTube and the internet is that you cannot find videos and writings of any crazy "Christian" or religious nuts beside Muslim nuts.
 
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qldfrog said:
You are blind beyond redemption, but yes ME ME ME ME that is the only reason of the evil of this world .
Anyway, won't bother you anymore in your lunacy: I have been here for month lining up facts, actual lived experience and arguments to no avail. Bye .
Click to expand...

For France it might also be the entire North West of Africa too, not just the ME. What? They don't teach French school kids about French colonialism in Africa? Ohh... that was so long ago, it's not like it's happening right now.

Sorry I am "blinded" for the need to either bash or ban or beat up people who look and sound like a terrorist in skin colour and clothing - just in case;

It has nothing to do with reality or fact; has nothing to do with history showing what happen when a majority thought to blame an entire group of people for the country's ill.

Nazi Germany, the Jews, the gays, the disabled;
Pol Pot Cambodia against Capitalist and intellectual;
Maoist China great leap forward and cultural revolution;
Bush, Blair, Howard and Coalition against Saddam and WMD, then nation-building, then democracy, then war against our way of life, and now ISIS...

And that's me skipping a lot of continent and century.

You know how many tens of millions of innocent people die in just those four war against some group of enemy trying to destroy "our way of life"?

But it's different this time, right? We are not at all wrong about Islam and their vile barbarism trying to destroy us, kill our children, rape our daughter and wives.

wtf. Stop talking about apartheid and potential genocide as though it's a real solution.
 
qldfrog said:
You are blind beyond redemption, but yes ME ME ME ME that is the only reason of the evil of this world .
Anyway, won't bother you anymore in your lunacy: I have been here for month lining up facts, actual lived experience and arguments to no avail. Bye .
Click to expand...

Yes, I did the same months ago. Skipping over the posts knowing they are devoid of worthwhile argument requires allocating more effort that is deserved, but one has no choice when ASF doesn't have an ignore button.
 
bellenuit said:
Yes, I did the same months ago. Skipping over the posts knowing they are devoid of worthwhile argument requires allocating more effort that is deserved, but one has no choice when ASF doesn't have an ignore button.
Click to expand...

The internet doesn't have an ignore button and some of us seem to be doing pretty well ignoring stuff.
 
bellenuit said:
APOSTASY: “WHOEVER CHANGES HIS (ISLAMIC) RELIGION, KILL HIM”

http://sheikyermami.com/apostasy-whoever-changes-his-islamic-religion-kill-him/
Click to expand...

I should have added regarding this second part that the comments condoning the killing of apostates are not being made in that article by just some cleric that supports the Muslim Brotherhood, but by Sheikh Ali Gomaa, the Grand Mufti of Egypt. He is Egypt’s superior authority in charge of issuing official fatwas (Islamic religious rulings).
 
bellenuit said:
I should have added regarding this second part that the comments condoning the killing of apostates are not being made in that article by just some cleric that supports the Muslim Brotherhood, but by Sheikh Ali Gomaa, the Grand Mufti of Egypt. He is Egypt’s superior authority in charge of issuing official fatwas (Islamic religious rulings).
Click to expand...

And these quotes from the Koran are false? A disguise?

“There is no compulsion where the religion is concerned.” (Holy Quran: 2/ 256)

“God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you in the religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just.” (Surat al-Mumtahana, 8)

A funeral procession once passed in front of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and he stood up out of respect. When he was told the person in the coffin was Jewish and not Muslim, he said: “Was it not a living (soul)?” Bukhari:V2N399

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) once saw the corpse of a woman who had been killed in a military action, and he disapproved of it and forbade the killing of women and children.Abu Bakr as-Siddiq, a companion of the Prophet Muhammad and his successor as head of the Muslim community, advised one of his military commanders: “Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place.” Al-Muwatta:V21N9-10

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “God has forbidden you to be undutiful to your mothers, to withhold (what you should give) or demand (what you do not deserve), or to bury your daughters alive (a pre-Islamic practice).” Bukhari:8:6


The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “The learned are heirs of the prophets, and the prophets do not leave any inheritance in the form of (monetary wealth), but they do leave knowledge as their legacy. A person who acquires knowledge, acquires his full share (of this legacy).” Riyadh-us-Salaheen:1388


The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “The best (Jihad) is (to speak) word of justice to an oppressive ruler.” Sunan of Abu-Dawood:2040

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “A believing man should not hate a believing woman. If he dislikes one of her characteristics, he will be pleased with another.” Muslim:705

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) once told his wife: “Avoid Cruelty and injustice..and guard yourselves against miserliness, for this has ruined nations who lived before you.” Riyadh-us-Salaheen:203

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) once said to one of his companions: “Son, if you are able, keep your heart..free from malice tward anyone.” Al-Tirmidhi:59
 
luutzu said:
And these quotes from the Koran are false? A disguise?

“There is no compulsion where the religion is concerned.” (Holy Quran: 2/ 256)

“God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you in the religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just.” (Surat al-Mumtahana, 8)

A funeral procession once passed in front of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and he stood up out of respect. When he was told the person in the coffin was Jewish and not Muslim, he said: “Was it not a living (soul)?” Bukhari:V2N399

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) once saw the corpse of a woman who had been killed in a military action, and he disapproved of it and forbade the killing of women and children.Abu Bakr as-Siddiq, a companion of the Prophet Muhammad and his successor as head of the Muslim community, advised one of his military commanders: “Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place.” Al-Muwatta:V21N9-10

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “God has forbidden you to be undutiful to your mothers, to withhold (what you should give) or demand (what you do not deserve), or to bury your daughters alive (a pre-Islamic practice).” Bukhari:8:6


The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “The learned are heirs of the prophets, and the prophets do not leave any inheritance in the form of (monetary wealth), but they do leave knowledge as their legacy. A person who acquires knowledge, acquires his full share (of this legacy).” Riyadh-us-Salaheen:1388


The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “The best (Jihad) is (to speak) word of justice to an oppressive ruler.” Sunan of Abu-Dawood:2040

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “A believing man should not hate a believing woman. If he dislikes one of her characteristics, he will be pleased with another.” Muslim:705

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) once told his wife: “Avoid Cruelty and injustice..and guard yourselves against miserliness, for this has ruined nations who lived before you.” Riyadh-us-Salaheen:203

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) once said to one of his companions: “Son, if you are able, keep your heart..free from malice toward anyone.” Al-Tirmidhi:59
Click to expand...

I'd bet you could cherry pick counter memes to all those deceptions.:rolleyes:
 
Tisme said:
I'd bet you could cherry pick counter memes to all those deceptions.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Actually, Tisme, you don't have to cheery pick counter memes. Muhammad has done the cherry picking for you.

The Quran has two distinct sets of memes (they use the word Surah, or chapters). There are two parts to the Quran; the earlier one supposedly written in Mecca and the more recent written in Medina. They are quite different in context.

The (earlier/older) Mecca Quran was all about tolerance, tranquility, spirituality, acceptance, and inner cleansing through submission to the word of Allah. Muhammad's intention was to preach his revelations and gain converts, mostly from among Christians and Jews. However, his newer revelations incorporated in the Medina Quran were more violent and had the Jews as the primary focus of this violence. This Medina Quran also incorporated much of the moral blessings of violence and caravan raiding taken from the Arab tribes who thrived on these ventures. The article below described the historical context pertaining to the change in style.

Many of the Surah from the more violent Medina Quran contradicted the more peaceful Surah of the earlier Mecca Quran. So how is that to be resolved. Muhammad ruled that if a later Surah contradicted a previous Surah, then the most recent and newer Surah was the true word of Allah. So cherry picking is not necessary. The peaceful Surah are overruled by the violent Surah when they contradict.

So regarding quoting from the Quran, the article goes on to say: If one is quoting from the Mecca Quran and there is a contradicting Surah in the Medina Quran, then the quote is no longer valid. Where much of the rituals come from the Mecca Quran along with the calls for tolerance and peace, the more exclusionary and violence condoning Surah in the Medina Quran negate the peaceful intention of the Surah from the earlier Mecca writings. This is why one must be careful when accepting as fact anybody’s quoting of the Surah of the Quran.

https://beyondthecusp.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/which-quran-mecca-or-medina/
 
bellenuit said:
Actually, Tisme, you don't have to cheery pick counter memes. Muhammad has done the cherry picking for you.

The Quran has two distinct sets of memes (they use the word Surah, or chapters). There are two parts to the Quran; the earlier one supposedly written in Mecca and the more recent written in Medina. They are quite different in context.

The (earlier/older) Mecca Quran was all about tolerance, tranquility, spirituality, acceptance, and inner cleansing through submission to the word of Allah. Muhammad's intention was to preach his revelations and gain converts, mostly from among Christians and Jews. However, his newer revelations incorporated in the Medina Quran were more violent and had the Jews as the primary focus of this violence. This Medina Quran also incorporated much of the moral blessings of violence and caravan raiding taken from the Arab tribes who thrived on these ventures. The article below described the historical context pertaining to the change in style.

Many of the Surah from the more violent Medina Quran contradicted the more peaceful Surah of the earlier Mecca Quran. So how is that to be resolved. Muhammad ruled that if a later Surah contradicted a previous Surah, then the most recent and newer Surah was the true word of Allah. So cherry picking is not necessary. The peaceful Surah are overruled by the violent Surah when they contradict.

So regarding quoting from the Quran, the article goes on to say: If one is quoting from the Mecca Quran and there is a contradicting Surah in the Medina Quran, then the quote is no longer valid. Where much of the rituals come from the Mecca Quran along with the calls for tolerance and peace, the more exclusionary and violence condoning Surah in the Medina Quran negate the peaceful intention of the Surah from the earlier Mecca writings. This is why one must be careful when accepting as fact anybody’s quoting of the Surah of the Quran.

https://beyondthecusp.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/which-quran-mecca-or-medina/
Click to expand...
In its initial more pacifist phase, Mohammed did not get that many followers and few were converting so he switched to a more 'proactiv'e aka sword based version gifting the initial followers with raiding loots/slaves etc;
It was a great tactical move and this is what made Islam so successfull in term of territory gains.

But who needs to know the truth or facts when people only want to see what they want to see.
It was not an easy path to go from a tolerant young leftie (gullible) anti racist (assimilated as it is now as any crirticism of the muslim movement) to one where knowledge allowed me to reconcile what I could see everyday to my belief.
Many here do not seem to have this courage.We still have communists in the world praising Staline so they do not need to feel lonely.
The debate should be how far the "moderate muslims" go, ensuring safety for the shia followers and moderate, no nihad or any symbol of the radicals and preventing salafists to ever set foot on the lands they want to destroy, cutting their funding and the links with Qatar, SA, etc.
 
bellenuit said:
Actually, Tisme, you don't have to cheery pick counter memes. Muhammad has done the cherry picking for you.

The Quran has two distinct sets of memes (they use the word Surah, or chapters). There are two parts to the Quran; the earlier one supposedly written in Mecca and the more recent written in Medina. They are quite different in context.

The (earlier/older) Mecca Quran was all about tolerance, tranquility, spirituality, acceptance, and inner cleansing through submission to the word of Allah. Muhammad's intention was to preach his revelations and gain converts, mostly from among Christians and Jews. However, his newer revelations incorporated in the Medina Quran were more violent and had the Jews as the primary focus of this violence. This Medina Quran also incorporated much of the moral blessings of violence and caravan raiding taken from the Arab tribes who thrived on these ventures. The article below described the historical context pertaining to the change in style.

Many of the Surah from the more violent Medina Quran contradicted the more peaceful Surah of the earlier Mecca Quran. So how is that to be resolved. Muhammad ruled that if a later Surah contradicted a previous Surah, then the most recent and newer Surah was the true word of Allah. So cherry picking is not necessary. The peaceful Surah are overruled by the violent Surah when they contradict.

So regarding quoting from the Quran, the article goes on to say: If one is quoting from the Mecca Quran and there is a contradicting Surah in the Medina Quran, then the quote is no longer valid. Where much of the rituals come from the Mecca Quran along with the calls for tolerance and peace, the more exclusionary and violence condoning Surah in the Medina Quran negate the peaceful intention of the Surah from the earlier Mecca writings. This is why one must be careful when accepting as fact anybody’s quoting of the Surah of the Quran.

https://beyondthecusp.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/which-quran-mecca-or-medina/
Click to expand...

Pick the bad, violent, nasty bits... ignore the peaceful, tolerant bits.

Got it.
 
qldfrog said:
In its initial more pacifist phase, Mohammed did not get that many followers and few were converting so he switched to a more 'proactiv'e aka sword based version gifting the initial followers with raiding loots/slaves etc;
It was a great tactical move and this is what made Islam so successfull in term of territory gains.

But who needs to know the truth or facts when people only want to see what they want to see.
It was not an easy path to go from a tolerant young leftie (gullible) anti racist (assimilated as it is now as any crirticism of the muslim movement) to one where knowledge allowed me to reconcile what I could see everyday to my belief.
Many here do not seem to have this courage.We still have communists in the world praising Staline so they do not need to feel lonely.
The debate should be how far the "moderate muslims" go, ensuring safety for the shia followers and moderate, no nihad or any symbol of the radicals and preventing salafists to ever set foot on the lands they want to destroy, cutting their funding and the links with Qatar, SA, etc.
Click to expand...



Tell us how Christianity was elevated from a crazy cult with followers eating the flesh, drinking the blood of their Savior, living on the fringes of the Roman Empire... then became a state-sanctioned religion again?

It became a state religion, a religion of the Roman Empire, only after a desperate Constantine use it to win a battle that made him Emperor. Right?

Didn't that just show that Christianity, like any religion and tool of states, are so because they are useful to the state and its masters?

Paraphrasing Edward Gibbon on the Roman empire before Constantine: Of the various people from the various provinces of Rome, the common people all believe the various gods and idols to be true; the wise men all consider them to be false; the magistrate all consider them useful.

Yea, useful.

Christianity changed right? It bring peace among all the Christian kingdoms? Encourage science and equal rights and liberty and feeding the poor and not owning slaves and ending wars?

Warmongering Christian states are ancient history.

How about the last 500 years? It show that Christianity can never be use to justify wars and missions to bring indigenous barbarians to either civilise or meet their new makers?

All that was not to show that Christian is this and that... but to show that maybe we ought to not believe in the piety and religious bs if it mean we'd have to kill people.
 

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