IFL - Insignia Financial

[oldblue]

It's quite a while since the merger with AUW - about time this stock had its own thread. Besides, the SP has increased from about $2.50 in March to around $6.00!

Anybody else holding/interested?

 

[skc]

It's quite a while since the merger with AUW - about time this stock had its own thread. Besides, the SP has increased from about $2.50 in March to around $6.00!

Anybody else holding/interested?

May be a takeover premium built but I don't think that's happening soon, given that the banks have bigger eggs to fry and integration challenges on all the other recent acquisitions.

 

[oldblue]

Is it just takeover speculation that has IOF up 11c today in an otherwise very wobbly market, or is there some other news that we should know about?

 

[oldblue]

Almost a year since the last post on IFL.

SP in that period has gone from around $6 to $8.

No recent news so I assume it's just general interest in the sector. Anyone else holding - or with a view?

 

[sptrawler]

There is still a lot of consolidation to happen in the super sector. As the baby boomers come through it is going to take economy of scale to fill the shortfall between increasing withdrawls and deminishing contributions. If the smaller companies don't merge I would assume they may suffer cash flow problems. The bigger companies will also suffer but to a lesser degree. My feeling is that IOOF is a big enough market name to either make it a possible take over or an attractive merger partner for the smaller players. So it is a bit of a win win situation, it either gets bigger through friendly merger or gets bought out by one of the big players.
My thoughts only and I do hold through the AUW merger.

 

[Julia]

There is still a lot of consolidation to happen in the super sector. As the baby boomers come through it is going to take economy of scale to fill the shortfall between increasing withdrawls and deminishing contributions. If the smaller companies don't merge I would assume they may suffer cash flow problems.

This very point was made in an article in the "Weekend Australian", including even the suggestion that some funds might need to be frozen. Thin end of the wedge?

 

[sptrawler]

The thin edge of the wedge indeed, these funds have been able to do just about anything with our money with minimal accountability. The test will come when the short fall between withdrawls and contributions has to be made up by investment based performance. Then we will really see who the best fund managers really are.

My gut feeling is that there will be such a shortfall the government will have to step in and take over a lot if not all the superfunds before they loose it all.
From memory I am sure I read somewhere that back in the 1950's we had a similar pension scheme to the U.K( where everyone payed in and and everyone got a pension). The government of the day said all too difficult we will put it in consolidated revenue and just pay the pensions. We all know what happens from there means, test then spend it all, then say hang on we need a superannuation gaurantee system so you can fund your own pension. Hang on haven't we all ready been here, boy I am sure getting more cynical as I get older, I am starting to get more like my dad every day.

 

[oldblue]

Thanks, folks. Good to have sparked some discussion here!

Any other views on IFL's position/strength in the coming new scenario?

I hold, but I'm a bit ambivalent as to whether they have sufficient clout to hold their own when things hot up.

 

[sptrawler]

They are not carrying a lot of baggage like some of the bigger funds and do a lot of business selling administration services to smaller boutique funds. This should enable them to absorb these smaller providers at minimal cost as things get tougher for them. Also when IOOF becomes big enough one of the larger players should mop them up. At the moment with a P/E of 17.3 it looks as though a lot of this is factored into the price

 

[Julia]

From memory I am sure I read somewhere that back in the 1950's we had a similar pension scheme to the U.K( where everyone payed in and and everyone got a pension). The government of the day said all too difficult we will put it in consolidated revenue and just pay the pensions.

This is exactly what happened in NZ at that time. People trustingly paid into a National Superannuation Fund and then, whacko, off it all went into consolidated revenue. In New Zealand's case, however, to their credit super is still not means tested and available to everyone when they retire, unlike here.

It does, however, there form part of one's total taxable income so probably limits how much can be paid to some individuals.

We all know what happens from there means, test then spend it all, then say hang on we need a superannuation gaurantee system so you can fund your own pension. Hang on haven't we all ready been here, boy I am sure getting more cynical as I get older, I am starting to get more like my dad every day.

If you're getting more cynical, it's with very good reason.

 

[notting]

I don't normally like to buy stocks when they are trading ex.
However I think this mornings reaction is a little over the top.
Have been grazing on this.

 

[piggybank]

I'm surprised to see that this stock has failed to have anyone contribute to the thread in 4.5 years especially given its recent run up. In that the last 21 trading days only 2 of them have been down days, maybe I shouldn't have said that given that they deal with the dead

Some insight into the company's business - InvoCare Limited (IVC) owns and operates funeral homes, cemeteries and crematoria around Australia, New Zealand and Singapore. Key funeral brands are White Lady Funerals, Simplicity Funerals and Singapore Casket. IVC also operates two Chinese memorial gardens, Lung Po Shan Chinese Memorial Gardens and Po Fook Shan Asian Memorial Gardens.

 

[Julia]

I'm surprised to see that this stock has failed to have anyone contribute to the thread in 4.5 years especially given its recent run up. In that the last 21 trading days only 2 of them have been down days, maybe I shouldn't have said that given that they deal with the dead

Some insight into the company's business - InvoCare Limited (IVC) owns and operates funeral homes, cemeteries and crematoria around Australia, New Zealand and Singapore. Key funeral brands are White Lady Funerals, Simplicity Funerals and Singapore Casket. IVC also operates two Chinese memorial gardens, Lung Po Shan Chinese Memorial Gardens and Po Fook Shan Asian Memorial Gardens.

PB, I'm a bit confused. You comment on IOOF on the IOOF thread but then go on to describe the activities of Invocare.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Another Financial Planner obscenity is unfolding at IOOF.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/ioof-shares-tumble-15pc-on-news-of-scandal-20150622-ghu32g.html

The leaders of this fund seem to have abandoned all good governance principles, if this article from the SMH is to be believed.

"It is the case that from time to time, IOOF identifies unit pricing errors sourced from externally managed or its own funds on each occasion, the error is carefully reviewed and if material, reported to ASIC."

Last week Fairfax Media put over 50 questions to IOOF including several questions relating to unit pricing errors. IOOF did not respond to those questions.

The scandal that has engulfed the once-venerable friendly society has also renewed calls for a Royal Commission into the banking sector.

Know more? Email: aferguson@fairfaxmedia.com.au

As Malcolm Fraser famously advised, keep your money close, preferably under the bed.

Financial Planners are wont to salivate over lazy money, and if the SMH is to be believed manipulate unit prices.

IOOF is now at 9.23 , a drop of over 13% in one day.

gg

 

[notting]

Gotta look at the source.
There are few better buying opportunities than when a disgruntled employee mouths off.
I went long at 8.94. which was about a 17% discount to the previous days close on the back of that desperate for attention SMH report.
If there is follow through to the downside tomorrow I'll be out quick, but I doubt that.
A disgruntled employee is a great 'face saver' as well as a good reason to think it's a load of crap and that they are no worse than any other fundy doing just fine as muppets make the slow and enduring return to the markets after the GFC.
There's still infinite cash floating around and IFL, MFG, MQG and the like are all set to bolt higher if this Greece thing blows over. Even it doesn't it'll just be blip.
They seem to want to keep them in the Euro even if they default. That should stem contagion. If they go broke, print money and bail em out.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Gotta look at the source.
There are few better buying opportunities than when a disgruntled employee mouths off.
I went long at 8.94. which was about a 17% discount to the previous days close on the back of that desperate for attention SMH report.
If there is follow through to the downside tomorrow I'll be out quick, but I doubt that.
A disgruntled employee is a great 'face saver' as well as a good reason to think it's a load of crap and that they are no worse than any other fundy doing just fine as muppets make the slow and enduring return to the markets after the GFC.
There's still infinite cash floating around and IFL, MFG, MQG and the like are all set to bolt higher if this Greece thing blows over. Even it doesn't it'll just be blip.
They seem to want to keep them in the Euro even if they default. That should stem contagion. If they go broke, print money and bail em out.

Just wondering what your thoughts are?

8.86 on decreasing vol yesterday.

http://www.asx.com.au/asx/research/company.do#!/IFL

gg

 

[notting]

MD Christopher Kelaher appearing voluntarily to the senate inquiry regarding barking dog ex employee.
All the other guys are overseas!
"How much has the share price dropped since the allegations Mr Kelaher?"
"Is this a crises Mr Kelaher?"
"Do your share holders think this is a crises?"
"We're concerned about victimisation of the whistle blower, Mr Kelaher."
Their now debating the meaning of a 'first and final warning.'

Conclusion of the hearings -
Senators are morons and not qualified to make meaningful inquiries.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

MD Christopher Kelaher appearing voluntarily to the senate inquiry regarding barking dog ex employee.
All the other guys are overseas!
"How much has the share price dropped since the allegations Mr Kelaher?"
"Is this a crises Mr Kelaher?"
"Do your share holders think this is a crises?"
"We're concerned about victimisation of the whistle blower, Mr Kelaher."
Their now debating the meaning of a 'first and final warning.'

Conclusion of the hearings -
Senators are morons and not qualified to make meaningful inquiries.

While I have never been a fan of Sen.Dastyari, I must admit he performed well today in asking the MD of IFL, a Mr. Kelahar, some pointed questions about the practices in the HR, Research, Investment and Advisory departments of this beleagured Financial Planning operation, IOOF.

We must have been watching different Senate hearings, Notting, as he appeared to ask some very pointed questions which still have not been adequately answered.

Financial Advisors are even more dangerous to investors, the bigger they get. Good governance seems to be without of IOOF.

gg

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

MD Christopher Kelaher appearing voluntarily to the senate inquiry regarding barking dog ex employee.
All the other guys are overseas!
"How much has the share price dropped since the allegations Mr Kelaher?"
"Is this a crises Mr Kelaher?"
"Do your share holders think this is a crises?"
"We're concerned about victimisation of the whistle blower, Mr Kelaher."
Their now debating the meaning of a 'first and final warning.'

Conclusion of the hearings -
Senators are morons and not qualified to make meaningful inquiries.

I thought it was just me, notting, but the SMH Business Day reporter also picked up on my feeling, that the Senators had Mr. Kelahar in a "gotcha" moment at the Senate Inquiry yesterday.

This does not bode well for the IFL price.

IOOF chief executive Chris Kelaher says the company did not report serious allegations of misconduct by senior staff to the corporate regulator despite the company investigating insider trading and front running six years ago.

Mr Kelaher made the explosive admission at a Senate hearing on Tuesday when he was grilled over allegations the financial services company covered up poor behaviour by staff. IOOF, which has a market value of $2.6 billion, sells financial advice, superannuation, investment management and trustee services.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/ioof-boss-admits-company-never-reported-suspected-insider-trading-to-asic-20150707-gi6nmg.html

gg

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Gotta look at the source.
There are few better buying opportunities than when a disgruntled employee mouths off.
I went long at 8.94. which was about a 17% discount to the previous days close on the back of that desperate for attention SMH report.
If there is follow through to the downside tomorrow I'll be out quick, but I doubt that.
A disgruntled employee is a great 'face saver' as well as a good reason to think it's a load of crap and that they are no worse than any other fundy doing just fine as muppets make the slow and enduring return to the markets after the GFC.
There's still infinite cash floating around and IFL, MFG, MQG and the like are all set to bolt higher if this Greece thing blows over. Even it doesn't it'll just be blip.
They seem to want to keep them in the Euro even if they default. That should stem contagion. If they go broke, print money and bail em out.

Did you decide to jump today, notting, or are you hanging in there.

A chart does not bode well for the gents and ladies at IFL, all good Friends.

It looks as if a recent triangle is trending down with a pick up in volume.

Time to put a helmet on.

A loss of 24% in half as many days is bad.

gg