ELECTIONS - Labor or Liberal

[Spaghetti]

I agree with you completely. The Libs have done an excellent job of running the country. Labour will blow it all (again).

The labor party did an excellent job. When they left office interest rates were very low and houses were very affordable. There was good economic growth with no china boom. Howard inherited good economic policy. There was short term pain for long term gain but I give credit to Hawke/Keating for that as it was long term policy.

 

[zt3000]

The labor party did an excellent job. When they left office interest rates were very low and houses were very affordable. There was good economic growth with no china boom. Howard inherited good economic policy. There was short term pain for long term gain but I give credit to Hawke/Keating for that as it was long term policy.

And under Hawke/Keating we had unprecidented striks and industrial actions being undertaken, wage increases which was unrelated to increased productivity. A company has $500k to spend on wages, so they employ 10 people .. $50k each. Right, unions demand a pay increase, nothing employer can do so they grant the increase to $55k, now what ... hrmm wages outgoings are $550k so what happens .. one person gets the sack ... back to 9 people at $500k. People its not rocket science. The new IR laws promote jobs and promote increased productivity.

Im all for giving higher wages demanded by some unions. Yes thats fine, but get up off your lazy a** and be more productive to justify those increases. This intern is then non-inflationary. The fact of the matter is the majority of people are not union members, so why vote in a goverment which is represented by a disproportionate amount of trade unionists. Its just asking for trouble.

Rudds slogan "Its time for change" ... umm hasn't Mr Rudd been virtually copying all of Howards policies ... i mean come on .. and why change something that is going so well? Ask yourself this ... has your asset value increased, has your wages increased, are you able to change jobs? I bet most of you would answer yes and this was delivered in the time of a liberal govt.

Interest rates haha now this is a good one

It bemuses me. I watched the debate, i would bet that say 70% of the population didn't understand a word they were saying when talking about fiscal policies, inflationary pressures ect ect ... bahhhh

there's my lol

 

[2020hindsight]

SEMANTICS
....
ACCC, OMBUDSMAN etc

And then for Carr to accuse Greiner of arrogance - when Greiner's biggest mistake was to be caught in his own web (some trivial matter of a sideways promotion of Metherill) - by the hitherto unheard-of unprecedented moral code of the ACCC - which HE had introduced.

oops
make that the ICAC lol (speaking of semantics - just a typo - plus I got the letters a bit mixed up

 

[2020hindsight]

And under Hawke/Keating we had unprecidented striks and industrial actions being undertaken, wage increases which was unrelated to increased productivity. A company has $500k to spend on wages, so they employ 10 people .. $50k each. Right, unions demand a pay increase, nothing employer can do so they grant the increase to $55k, now what ... hrmm wages outgoings are $550k so what happens .. one person gets the sack ... back to 9 people at $500k. People its not rocket science. The new IR laws promote jobs and promote increased productivity.

sure, zt, but equally the scales would be tipped too far if companies survived because they rip people off (surely).

Of course in many places people are on far far less than $50K - (my guess is that very few of us can even empathise) - and again it's not rocket science to see that only smart companies that can survive without ripping people off should survive.

I also think you are totally incorrect in saying that under Hawke / Keating we had unprecendented strikes or wage blowouts. I think you will find that
a) that occurred under Fraser / Howard ( after Fraser foolishly promised a fistful of dollars - and Hawke and the unions happily obliged)

b) that under Hawke / Keating there was more "accord" with the unions than ever.

I think you will find that the truth is that noone has been able to rein in the unions EXCEPT Labor.
edit - make that "in a fair manner" without completely putting the boot in as the latest govt have done in the last 3 years.

 

[Spaghetti]

And under Hawke/Keating we had unprecidented striks and industrial actions being undertaken, wage increases which was unrelated to increased productivity. A company has $500k to spend on wages, so they employ 10 people .. $50k each. Right, unions demand a pay increase, nothing employer can do so they grant the increase to $55k, now what ... hrmm wages outgoings are $550k so what happens .. one person gets the sack ... back to 9 people at $500k. People its not rocket science. The new IR laws promote jobs and promote increased productivity.

Im all for giving higher wages demanded by some unions. Yes thats fine, but get up off your lazy a** and be more productive to justify those increases. This intern is then non-inflationary. The fact of the matter is the majority of people are not union members, so why vote in a goverment which is represented by a disproportionate amount of trade unionists. Its just asking for trouble.

Rudds slogan "Its time for change" ... umm hasn't Mr Rudd been virtually copying all of Howards policies ... i mean come on .. and why change something that is going so well? Ask yourself this ... has your asset value increased, has your wages increased, are you able to change jobs? I bet most of you would answer yes and this was delivered in the time of a liberal govt.

Interest rates haha now this is a good one

It bemuses me. I watched the debate, i would bet that say 70% of the population didn't understand a word they were saying when talking about fiscal policies, inflationary pressures ect ect ... bahhhh

there's my lol

We have not had productivity growth recently, have we?

 

[Spaghetti]

Labour costs in Australia are rising at the second-fastest pace of the world's wealthiest countries, underscoring the Reserve Bank's fears of rising inflation and consolidating the case for a rise in interest rates next month.

The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development's measure of unit labour, released last night, shows wage gains are racing ahead of productivity increases in Australia. Productivity has become a heated election battleground, with the Labor Opposition accusing the Government of not doing enough to stimulate productivity growth at a time of bulging government coffers.

Among the OECD's 26 members, Australian unit labour costs were rising at the fastest pace, with the exception of Norway, in the three months to June.

The heady gains help explain why interest rates are on the increase in Australia when central banks in the US, Europe and Britain are considering rate cuts.

http://http://www.smh.com.au/news/federalelection2007news/wage-gains-beating-productivity-oecd-figures-show/2007/10/25/1192941243227.html

So unions can't be blamed for that problem anymore can they?

 

[Spaghetti]

sure, zt, but equally the scales would be tipped too far if companies survived because they rip people off (surely).

Of course in many places people are on far far less than $50K - (my guess is that very few of us can even empathise) - and again it's not rocket science to see that only smart companies that can survive without ripping people off should survive.

I also think you are totally incorrect in saying that under Hawke / Keating we had unprecendented strikes or wage blowouts. I think you will find that
a) that occurred under Fraser / Howard ( after Fraser foolishly promised a fistful of dollars - and Hawke and the unions happily obliged)

b) that under Hawke / Keating there was more "accord" with the unions than ever.

I think you will find that the truth is that noone has been able to rein in the unions EXCEPT Labor.
edit - make that "in a fair manner" without completely putting the boot in as the latest govt have done in the last 3 years.

Yes labor fixed the problem the Accord and producivity growth etc started to really take off.

 

[zt3000]

Labour costs in Australia are rising at the second-fastest pace of the world's wealthiest countries, underscoring the Reserve Bank's fears of rising inflation and consolidating the case for a rise in interest rates next month.

The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development's measure of unit labour, released last night, shows wage gains are racing ahead of productivity increases in Australia. Productivity has become a heated election battleground, with the Labor Opposition accusing the Government of not doing enough to stimulate productivity growth at a time of bulging government coffers.

Among the OECD's 26 members, Australian unit labour costs were rising at the fastest pace, with the exception of Norway, in the three months to June.

The heady gains help explain why interest rates are on the increase in Australia when central banks in the US, Europe and Britain are considering rate cuts.

http://http://www.smh.com.au/news/federalelection2007news/wage-gains-beating-productivity-oecd-figures-show/2007/10/25/1192941243227.html

So unions can't be blamed for that problem anymore can they?

No, most probably soley due to mining in WA lol ... ive been on sites where the whole staff i mean everyone stopped working because the mine down the road had one more flavour of ice cream seriosly come on

 

[Spaghetti]

Well going on my historic view unions were not the problem. One problem was the Reserve Bank was over ruled in setting interest rates and that would not happen now and banks were saddled with bad debt and some collapsed. I guess I see Skase more a symbol of the bad rather than unions.However, as now, the problems were blamed on economic growth and good economic management and the subsequent boom in investments, again what we hear about now. I do not remember the unions being behind the real problems of the early nineties but yes the late 70's and early 80's when howard was treasurer. Perhaps he blames them for his past failures and holds a long term grudge.

I do understand problems with unions in the past but I also understand the role in contributing so much to the egalitarian nature of the workforce we once had. I dont mind discussing past union problems but I do feel that Howard is using propoganda in his war against unions rather than actual facts. Instead of discussing of what really has happened in the past, or even what is happening now seems too much focus is placed on distortion of history. It has worked I guess because so many seem to be of the view the sky was falling in during the early nineties. Not how I remember it at all.

 

[ithatheekret]

Logically, there is no point in wasting political resources on rural communities. They vote right wing en masse, so there is no point Labor pandering to them, nor is there any point for the Liberal to devote money to them, as voting intentions are rigid. A change in voting habits would change the way they are treated. It's simple.

For simplicities sake ........

Rural communities ............ every city was a rural community once .

No point in pandering to them . That's how those rural commuinties became cities . From cities we witnessed births of Provinces , States and Territories ................ and in many cases Countries .

A habit or intention should come under moral acts technically , so it could be seen as nonconforming or an allegience .

On the flipside , whatever is promised by them today , we will have to make up for tomorrow .

 

[Superfly]

There was a corporal who once ran a country , he was a short , ultra nationalist , who was good at demonising his enemies and telling the mass want they wanted to hear , a master of propoganda .He ignored international treaties and marginalised minorities for political gain. He held on to power at all costs as he was convinced he was the only person who could save his country and when the realisation came that he was going to lose, he blamed everyone other than himself.(Sounds like someone we know)

John Howard state in 1996 that 10 years was too long for one side to be in power and in 1996 the liberals had no experience either. Time to give the other side a go , this side has run out of steam.

.... you say the Lib's had no experience....right or wrong John Howard was a member of the Fraser government in the 70's....and then he was part of the opposition that voted with the Labour gov to send troops to Desert Storm BEFORE the UN sanctioned it, not like the current opposition who choose to do anything to gain an easy vote even on critical issues of international importance, and try to create anti Amercianism in this country....have heard no mention of the war in Afganistan..why...because the west is winning it....St Kevin, J Gillard.....what experience do they have, besides marching at May Day rallys....John Howard has over 30 years...

As for blaming everyone other than yourself....sounds like a state Labour government all day everyday....

Were they not meant to remove a host of state taxes in lure of GST payments, but never did or very little and only with arm twisting from Peter Costello....thats what you get with the left.

 

[Knobby22]

.... you say the Lib's had no experience....right or wrong John Howard was a member of the Fraser government in the 70's....and then he was part of the opposition that voted with the Labour gov to send troops to Desert Storm BEFORE the UN sanctioned it, not like the current opposition who choose to do anything to gain an easy vote even on critical issues of international importance, and try to create anti Amercianism in this country....have heard no mention of the war in Afganistan..why...because the west is winning it....St Kevin, J Gillard.....what experience do they have, besides marching at May Day rallys....John Howard has over 30 years...

As for blaming everyone other than yourself....sounds like a state Labour government all day everyday....

Were they not meant to remove a host of state taxes in lure of GST payments, but never did or very little and only with arm twisting from Peter Costello....thats what you get with the left.

All the money is with the Feds and they are spending it unwisely at present.
The Liberals have failed. I don't see how they can call themselves great. They have allowed all our solar technologies be owned by Chines and US companies due to their stopping of funding in 2000 which they have belatedly restarted. The US free trade treaty is a disaster for us. Foreign debt is getting scary. We have had the biggest boom ever and yet we have not followed what other countries have done such as Norway and built up foreign reserves which then would have kept the dollar lower and also interest rates lower. They have allowed tax distortions such as the 50% capital gains tax on property to mean Australians are pouring money into property instead of wealth creation businesses. They have underfunded the Tafe colleges to such an extent that we are short of all trades and have to triple our foreign intake to get the skills.

I can go on and on. I have usually voted Liberal. Not this time. Rudd is the only alternative so we just have to hope he can do better than the retograde dullards presently running the country.

Finally, we are not winning the war in Afganistan, we are losing it. You are watching too much channel Fox.

 

[nioka]

We must be a dumb country. John Howard says so. When did he say that you ask. When he says ,that out of a country of over 21million people, he is the only one who can run it. ( even in boom times.) Do you believe we are all that dumb?

 

[nioka]

We must be a dumb country. John Howard says so. When did he say that you ask. When he says ,that out of a country of over 21million people, he is the only one who can run it. ( even in boom times.) Do you believe we are all that dumb?

I'd better correct that. He did say there was also the second best who could do it at a pinch. Peter (non core promise) Costello.

 

[mark70920]

No, most probably soley due to mining in WA lol ... ive been on sites where the whole staff i mean everyone stopped working because the mine down the road had one more flavour of ice cream seriosly come on

Name the mine and the year , thats a very old story from back in the peco days at ROBE RIVER , hasn't happened at all in the last 15 years since the mining unions were smashed.
The fact is most WA miners are on AWA's and couldn't strike over a major safety issue let alone ice cream flavours.

 

[chops_a_must]

Were they not meant to remove a host of state taxes in lure of GST payments, but never did or very little and only with arm twisting from Peter Costello....thats what you get with the left.

Yes... but the Liberals took the States to the high court over certain tarriff charges, and won. Yet, they did not return that same revenue to the states; so the states were forced to keep existing taxes to balance revenue. But this is does not compensate, there is a nett loss as compared to the situation before.

 

[BSD]

Rodentomics strikes again!!!



I have had enough of this rubbish

Education Policy - give a non means tested benefit of $800 to anyone to offset the tuition fees at Geelong Grammar, Brisbane Boys Grammar and other such venerable homes of deep thinking.

Childcare - the more you earn, the cheaper it gets. Magic thought from a bloke who thinks the place of a women is at home.

Housing Affordability - give a tax break to parents and grandparents to subsidise their kids. $1000 a year for over 18s? How much do these idiots think it costs for a home?

Rich kids get a deposit for a home and their parents get a CGT free punt.

Poor kids get nothing - 90% of parents dont have $1000 per annum spare to get their child set in a home at 20. But th lucky 10% are set.

Poor kids, if they are smart, still get the gift of a $40,000 HECS bill for their effort.


Toss these idiots out - they have lost any grip on reality. Economic reform?

Why not subsidise Bentleys for 'aspirational' voters?

Anyone who pays tax should feel sick at the thought of a new Rodent/Smirk Government.

And before anyone plays the "UNION" card - remember that Labor, under Mr Keating, dismantled centralised bargaining. A concept that cannot be forgotten like microeconomic reform - but has been sorely lacking from these fools.


Good riddance Rodent...

 

[noco]

I cannot believe the way Rudd and his cronies especially Gillard are raving on about John Howard handing over to Peter Costello half way through his next term if elected on the 24-11-07. At least he is more honest than Beattie, Carr and Bracks whom all lead the people in their respective states to believe they would be there for the their full term. They all pulled the pin half way through, gave some 2 or 3 days notice and walked out. So don't talk about a vote for Howard is a vote for Costello. At least you know who you will get.

 

[nioka]

So don't talk about a vote for Howard is a vote for Costello. At least you know who you will get.

That is exactly the problem. We know that we will get Costello who is on the record as saying John Howard makes too many spending promises. He can call them "noncore" promises in the future and say HE didn't make them. He is also on record, I believe, as saying that Work Choices need to go further. Costello is the last person we need.

 

[Rafa]

One really does wonder if there are any economic conservatives left in this country... the way middle class welfare has taken off... !!!

Anyone who thinks that the liberals under Howard are economic conservatives need to go back and look at their policies in the last 6-7years... Even private schools are shaking their heads at the latest round of pork barelling by howard...

The scary thing is... the RBA are watching over and shaking their heads in disapproval.


Private school backs ALP

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22755440-5014046,00.html

THE headmaster of one of the nation's richest private schools believes John Howard's tax rebate for school fees should be means-tested.

The King's School headmaster Tim Hawkes, who weathered the storm of former Labor leader Mark Latham's decision to elevate his school as the public face of his hit-list policy, has also endorsed Kevin Rudd as "politically astute".

Liberal strategists believe the rebate could emerge as a "wedge" issue by reigniting the perception that Labor, whose rival rebate scheme is means-tested and can not be used for school fees, does not support private education.

The Coalition's 40 per cent rebate, offering up to $800 for education expenses including fees and school uniforms, could also deliver substantial savings for parents sending their children to low-fee independent and Catholic schools. But Australia's free-market think tanks last night attacked the new education rebates as "an unholy mess" that would increase voter reliance on government handouts and failed to simplify the tax system.

Mr Hawkes said yesterday he was concerned struggling schools needed the cash more.

"The bottom line is I think the money should be spent where it's needed," Mr Hawkes told The Australian. "I have sympathy with it being means-tested. I am really quite comfortable with that because I am generally a supporter of needs-based funding."

The King's School, in the western Sydney suburb of Parramatta, charges up to $36,000 a year for boarders and $20,000 a year for day students.

Graduates include former Nationals leaders John Anderson and Doug Anthony. Broadcaster Alan Jones was employed as teacher at the school in the 1970s. In 2004, Mr Latham publicly ridiculed the King's School's "15 cricket fields, 13 rugby fields, 12 tennis courts ... two climbing walls, 50m swimming pool, gym, boatshed and indoor rifle range".

But under Mr Rudd's leadership, the school would have its overall level of funding guaranteed. "I applaud the Labor Party's policy," Mr Hawkes said.

"I am delighted that Labor has abandoned its hit list policy and its antipathy towards independent schools.

"There is no question Kevin Rudd is making a serious pitch for the aspirational vote and that his pitch has been infinitely more successful and politically astute than that of his predecessors."

The Centre for Independent Studies, a free-market think tank, said the Coalition was increasing voters' reliance on welfare.

"We already have one of the most complicated tax systems in the Western world," social research director Peter Saunders said. "Now every parent with a tax accountant is going to claim $800-a-year for each secondary school child.

"On childcare, we've now got a benefit that is paid to the provider and we've got a rebate, which until now was claimed by the parents but is now being paid to the providers.

"There's no overall strategy in any of this. It's just every election there's more stuff piled on what is underneath. It's an unholy mess."

CIS research fellow Andrew Norton, a former higher education adviser to the Howard Government, said the policy was "another handout to families which is part of a major pattern with the current Government".

"They've been trained to expect it. My personal view is there should be tax cuts going to all, and not just those who have children in the household," he said.

But Judith Poole, headmistress of Abbotsleigh, an Anglican girls' school in Sydney, said parents facing school fees of up to $19,500 a year would welcome the assistance. "I am not sure it should be means-tested. It's supporting choice in education," she said.

"$800 will help. We've got a lot of students coming from regional areas, they're battling a drought and it is a big sacrifice."

Mr Anderson declined to comment on Mr Hawkes's concerns over the Coalition policy.