ELECTIONS - Labor or Liberal

[nioka]

.. I just have this perception of Labor as being anti-upper class, & overly pro-blue collar

I thought aussie was a classless society. Are you upper class, if so could you please explain your class or mine. Could you please explain what it takes to be upper class.

 

[Nyden]

I thought aussie was a classless society. Are you upper class, if so could you please explain your class or mine. Could you please explain what it takes to be upper class.

Well isn't that a pipe dream.

No society in the world is classless, although class shouldn't affect health care, education, & anything of the likes - the class I am referring to is obviously being well off, or for lack of a better word being a "battler".

How can you say we're classless, when (at least, by my definition) politicians themselves are appealing to the masses, and even label them as 'battlers'.

I think to say we're classless is a touch naive, when in certain suburbs and you see nothing but BMW dealerships surrounding the million dollar properties?

When in reverse, in the lower priced areas you see Holden dealerships?

 

[brilliantmichael]

I thought aussie was a classless society. Are you upper class, if so could you please explain your class or mine. Could you please explain what it takes to be upper class.

"Upper class" is the label people want to call themselves when they're insecure enough to want to be one, but know they'll never reach their dream of being called one in their lifetime. E.g. people who come onto ASF trying to act all haughty-taughty and flog so-called lib values (contrary to what the libs are at heart really about), and wish to identify themselves with right-wing nationalism (which liberals are not about - hence the term "liberalism" - look it up on Wikipedia). Examples include "well educated" but non-rich professionals who are secretly supportive of the Cronulla riots and (no offense to all the libs) Kevin Andrews!

 

[Rafa]

That raises the point; who are the markets hoping will win? Or isn't it clear-cut? I guess I haven't had the time to go over both sides policies!

there is a whole thread on which govt is better for the market... i think the outcome of that one was... It doesn't matter...

I just seem to fear a Labor government; afraid they'll mess with the CGT system in a negative way, or something... I just have this perception of Labor as being anti-upper class, & overly pro-blue collar

As for any of this class nonsense... this is Australia... there are no classes here, except those that have been recently created by the libs with the two tier health system, and the two tier uni entrance system (i.e. fee or no fee)

 

[Nyden]

"Upper class" is the label people want to call themselves when they're insecure enough to want to be one, but know they'll never reach their dream of being called one in their lifetime. E.g. people who come onto ASF trying to act all haughty-taughty and flog so-called lib values (contrary to what the libs are at heart really about), and wish to identify themselves with right-wing nationalism (which liberals are not about - hence the term "liberalism" - look it up on Wikipedia). Examples include "well educated" but non-rich professionals who are secretly supportive of the Cronulla riots and (no offense to all the libs) Kevin Andrews!

I should hope you're not referring to me : I never labeled myself as that, I don't much appreciate any form of labeling. I merely stated that I fear a government that seems (at least, by my perception!) to only care about those who are struggling.

Australians have no one to blame but themselves for these rate-hikes, I know plenty of people who keep buying big screen TVs, lounge furniture rivaling the cost of most cars, & constantly going on holidays all on their credit cards; fooled by the "Interest Free!!" slogans.

Those who weren't stupid shouldn't suffer for those who were.

As for any of this class nonsense... this is Australia... there are no classes here, except those that have been recently created by the libs with the two tier health system, and the two tier uni entrance system (i.e. fee or no fee)

I'm not saying having classes are a good thing, but it is an unfortunate reality.
You can't say "There are no classes here! Oh, with the exception of this, and that, oh and that other thing"
It is unfortunate, but I believe it is a reality. Hey, when it comes to anything but the markets - I'm a pessimist.

 

[2020hindsight]

Couldn't help smiling this morning -
ABC had the Queen's voice talking about introducing bills to parliament to counter global warming ---- "for reducing the generation of carbon dioxide by 50% (?) by 2050 (? whatever)" .... (you have to imagine her regal tones saying this) ...

and I wondered to myself...

Gee at this rate Johnny Howard probably wishes he'd backed Malcolm Turnbull in the Republican days

Nyden :-.... Australians have no one to blame but themselves for these rate-hikes, I know plenty of people who keep buying big screen TVs, lounge furniture

PS Nyden - I have about 8 sets of lounge chairs . sofas etc - they're in our garage for the kids and their guests, all picked up from nice people who dump them during kerbside cleanups

PPS but also, surely the big handouts will be inflationary (?)

 

[Rafa]

You can't say "There are no classes here! Oh, with the exception of this, and that, oh and that other thing"
It is unfortunate, but I believe it is a reality. Hey, when it comes to anything but the markets - I'm a pessimist.

Apologies... that should have read 'were'... as in there were no classes here
Things have changed in the last few years...

 

[chops_a_must]

Gee at this rate Johnny Howard probably wishes he'd backed Malcolm Turnbull in the Republican days

You're always on par with those 'laugh a day' comments. Keep 'em coming, I love your work.

 

[noco]

Imitrust, it is the younger generation who may help Labor over the line because they have not experienced what it is like under Labor.
As you say, perhaps a good dose of Labor for 3 years (not 4) may be enough to keep them out for a decade.
The thing that concerns me most is that we may have to contend with coast to coast Labor if they win this election. Rudd says over my dead body will he increase the GST, but with 6 Labor states and 2 Terriortories all Labor, there is nothing to stop them increasing the GST to 14 % which some of the Labor states are already talking about.
Remember Keating, L-A-W TAX which he reneged on.
Remember Bob Hawke, no child would be in poverty after 1990.
Remember Paul Keating, the recession we had to have.
Remember "ME TOO" copy cat Kevin Rudd. According to Peter Garrett things will all change after the election and the "ME TOO" thing will be thrown out the window and back will come McDonald, Reynolds and the other union thugs to dictate the terms to KRUDD, after all they will want a return for the millions of $'s they have pumped into the Labor campaign.
I'll stick with the Liberals thank you.

 

[chops_a_must]

Remember Keating, L-A-W TAX which he reneged on.

As did Howard when treasurer.

 

[Rafa]

love that raising the GST scare campaingn...
he'd have to get that thru the upper house first which which be liberal controled!


regardless, unless he wants to get voted right back out, doubt we'd see that happen.

and speaking about GST, funny how you forgot the never ever GST noco?

 

[noco]

love that raising the GST scare campaingn...
he'd have to get that thru the upper house first which which be liberal controled!


regardless, unless he wants to get voted right back out, doubt we'd see that happen.

and speaking about GST, funny how you forgot the never ever GST noco?

The upper house may only be controlled by Liberal untill 30-06-08, after that it may be controlled by Labor if they get a majority in the Senate.
What is wrong with the GST? the Labor states love it and it gets increased every year.
A lot of you dumbos who raved on about everything would cost another 10% more, obviously had no idea how much hidden sales tax you were paying, like 25% on motor vehicles, Keating jumped it from 20-25% in one hit.
22.5% on a can of Coca Cola, 33% on stationery, 22.5% on toilet paper and I could go on, but I am sure you have got the message by now. All sales tax on goods was removed on the introduction of the GST so in fact most items became cheaper.
And what about all the previous election campaigns where Labor were going to ROLL BACK the GST. Never hear a word from Rudd or Swan about ROLL BACK, so they must have approved of it, any way the states would not let them do it now.
Gillard said 6 months ago she would tear up all the AWA'S, never mentions it any more, I wonder why?
I'll trust the Libs over Labor any time thanks.

 

[Rafa]

there is nothing wrong with the GST... i voted for it!
its the only good reform that this govt has done...

 

[bvbfan]

What is wrong with the GST? the Labor states love it and it gets increased every year.

Nothing except that the promise was that it would force the states to abolish a lot of state taxes like stamp duty. I know it was done on share transactions but what about property, vehicles.

What about the fact that the Commonwealth Grants Commission who dole out the pie from the GST revenue seem to give it to the poorer states.
I was led to believe that the state that the GST was raised would get the funds back.

I'd support a higher GST across all items and a cut of tax rates and make the tax only payable above the rate determined as sufficient to live on.

 

[hangseng]

How can you keep Howard in when he has slashed education funding, put up HECS fees, Dumped workers needs/rights/working conditions/Pay.

Pumped millions into a useless war.

Lied to the public and allowed 8 interest rate rises to occur

Introduced the GST, a tax on a tax!

Kick the bastard out!

The GST is not "a tax on a tax" the state labour govts agreed to abolish certain state taxes but never did. The Labour govts (including fed) never did a thing to address this regressive impost. The WA Labour Govt actually has the gall to state the surplus' they have achieved are based on sound fiscal management, what a lot of cods! WA has the highest taxes in the country and the Labour govt did nothing to curb the huge stamp duty on property they just took it all and actually increased it. They will bankrupt this state if permitted to as they have no idea how to manage money, neither does the proposed federal Labour govt.

No amount of Rudd hand waving, reading prepared script or public ear wax eating will ever convince me of otherwise.

 

[numbercruncher]

I think the liberals have themselves proved how inept they are, no Government would call an election at a time when interest rates were about to be raised, they could of called elections a month ago, to me it proves the current Government had absolutley no idea that inflation was running so high, I guess their servants do their shopping, fill the tank, pay the bills etc ?

Seriously, if Government knew inflation was so high, and thought there was even a slight chance of a raise during the campaign they would of had voting day before the rba meeting.

 

[chops_a_must]

A lot of you dumbos who raved on about everything would cost another 10% more, obviously had no idea how much hidden sales tax you were paying, like 25% on motor vehicles, Keating jumped it from 20-25% in one hit.

Hmmm... I remember being shown an historical inflation graph that showed a spike after the GST was introduced, in my econonimc intro unit. Says a lot about who's a dumbo I think.

 

[hangseng]

Hmmm... I remember being shown an historical inflation graph that showed a spike after the GST was introduced, in my econonimc intro unit. Says a lot about who's a dumbo I think.

Quite a lot of people missed a lot of economics 101.

Including the people who didn't see the hidden sales taxes on all goods as indicated by Nico. Labour ensured we would continue to have high taxes to pay for the unproductive socialist policies by not removing state taxes and in fact increasing them, as they will again.

 

[Julia]

Just diverting back to whether or not Australia is a classless society, perhaps once it may have been, but frankly I doubt it. Although we don't have the clearly delineated classes of, e.g. the UK, there are definite divisions within our society.

Until tonight I hadn't heard the term "upper class" referred to in this country.
More commonly, it seems the reasonably well off, reasonably well educated, reasonably socially mobile people term themselves "middle class".

I think we have politicians to thank for much of the divisions we see in Australian society. How many times do Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard say "Australian working families" in the course of a day? Hundreds probably!
It's driving me insane. Are they referring to the middle class folk described above? No, they are not. They are attempting to appeal to the blue collar workers who defected big time from Labor at the last election and strayed into unfamiliar Liberal territory. John Howard is trying hard to hold on to them but, given all the interest rate rises, cost of petrol, food, general increases in the cost of living, he doesn't have much chance.

The consumer items which have reduced in price with the increase in the value of the dollar are not the everyday "must have" items, but rather the big TV's, high end audio gear etc.

Mr Howard's constant refrain of "we have never had it so good" is wearing very thin indeed with people struggling to pay rent or meet mortgage payments.

But those on good incomes with added income from investments are relatively untouched by all of this.

So any notion of a classless society is, sadly, unrealistic.

 

[2020hindsight]

Just diverting back to whether or not Australia is a classless society, perhaps once it may have been, but frankly I doubt it. Although we don't have the clearly delineated classes of, e.g. the UK, there are definite divisions within our society.

Until tonight I hadn't heard the term "upper class" referred to in this country.

well - it's pretty "classless" in the centre of the NT that's for sure.

and if you make it to the end of year 1,
then you go "upper class" for next year