ELECTIONS - Labor or Liberal

AussiePaul72 · 7 August 2007

G'day All,
Very good thread and thoughts expressed by all. Its interesting that the ASF poll on here is virtually 50/50 from 260+ voters. I personally think that that is probably very close to the mark right across our nation. There has been quite a bit of speculation in the media that labour is well ahead in the polls. My bet is that its going to be a very close election.
I'll be upfront and say that i support the government. I think there are two main reasons that the voting public are very much divided straight down the line 50:50 in this election.
Government Positives - The government has a very good track record while they have been in power. They have a very sound economic record and have Australia placed in a strong position.
Government Negatives - I think John Howard is the best leader to go to the next election but unfortunately he does not have the people appeal that others like Kevin Rudd & Peter Beattie are masters of. I think Peter Costello is a great treasurer but is best if he stays as treasurer and doesn't try to rock the boat.
Labour Positives - They finally have a labour united team that is very committed and smart. Kevin Rudd has that people appeal that labour so badly needed in a leader. Kevin Rudd tells voters what they want to hear.
Labour Negatives - They have a poor track record when it comes to economic stability. The older generations remember past labour performances where as many young voters were too young to have experienced that period of time.

Overall, i think this election will go down to the wire! Here's to the closest election in many years and i think that can only help the people of Australia get a great deal from who ever gets voted in .........

explod · 7 August 2007

AussiePaul72 said:
G'day All,
Very good thread and thoughts expressed by all. Its interesting that the ASF poll on here is virtually 50/50 from 260+ voters. I personally think that that is probably very close to the mark right across our nation. There has been quite a bit of speculation in the media that labour is well ahead in the polls. My bet is that its going to be a very close election.
I'll be upfront and say that i support the government. I think there are two main reasons that the voting public are very much divided straight down the line 50:50 in this election.
Government Positives - The government has a very good track record while they have been in power. They have a very sound economic record and have Australia placed in a strong position.
Government Negatives - I think John Howard is the best leader to go to the next election but unfortunately he does not have the people appeal that others like Kevin Rudd & Peter Beattie are masters of. I think Peter Costello is a great treasurer but is best if he stays as treasurer and doesn't try to rock the boat.
Labour Positives - They finally have a labour united team that is very committed and smart. Kevin Rudd has that people appeal that labour so badly needed in a leader. Kevin Rudd tells voters what they want to hear.
Labour Negatives - They have a poor track record when it comes to economic stability. The older generations remember past labour performances where as many young voters were too young to have experienced that period of time.

Overall, i think this election will go down to the wire! Here's to the closest election in many years and i think that can only help the people of Australia get a great deal from who ever gets voted in .........

What a load of crap. The Hawk/ Keating era revolutionised the economics of this country and Howard has reaped the benifits since. Johhny's GST has crippled small business, the very people the Liberal Party profess to support. With tremendous dangers near to our borders, particularly Indonesia we are off supporting the breakdown of Hussian's soverign state. (Not that I had any time for him, but Mugabe is worse) Saddam used to keep Iran in check, if US have to pull out of that part of the world it will be lost to us,together with the oil that is still sorely needed, need I go on. Have a big think. These are the reasons why the polls are the way they are. People who marched in the streets against the Irak war went silent due to scare campaigns, but they have not forgotten. Not that Rudd seem to be very strong on this point either.

AussiePaul72 · 7 August 2007

explod said:
What a load of crap. The Hawk/ Keating era revolutionised the economics of this country and Howard has reaped the benifits since. Johhny's GST has crippled small business, the very people the Liberal Party profess to support. With tremendous dangers near to our borders, particularly Indonesia we are off supporting the breakdown of Hussian's soverign state. (Not that I had any time for him, but Mugabe is worse) Saddam used to keep Iran in check, if US have to pull out of that part of the world it will be lost to us,together with the oil that is still sorely needed, need I go on. Have a big think. These are the reasons why the polls are the way they are. People who marched in the streets against the Irak war went silent due to scare campaigns, but they have not forgotten. Not that Rudd seem to be very strong on this point either.

G'day Explod ....... does that mean you don't agree with my comments???
It is only my opinion ... don't get too worked up over it mate! Everyone is entitled to a say .... thats what makes this a good thread and debate. I respect your comments even if i think they are a bit twisted .....lol. I don't profess to agree with everything the government has put forward but as a voter i am supporting the government over the opposition when i way up all the pro's and cons.
Take care Explod!!

2020hindsight · 7 August 2007

found a couple of youtubes from the old days
Howard's deficit

Treasurer John Howard went to the 1983 election claiming a budget deficit of $4.3 billion, and later admitted to it being $6 billion when it was in-fact $9.6 billion.

John Howard 1987

2020hindsight · 7 August 2007

explod said:
I believe the election can be called for as late as January 2008, where will Kevin 07 be in 08.........kevin in heaven maybe

explod - now you're thinkin like a pollie lol - what a ripper tactic that would be - defer it to 08 lol - ahh - life is full of funny lill anecdotes aint it
guess they'd have to change it to "kevins your mate in 08" - and in a hurry .

explod · 7 August 2007

AussiePaul72 said:
G'day Explod ....... does that mean you don't agree with my comments???
It is only my opinion ... don't get too worked up over it mate! Everyone is entitled to a say .... thats what makes this a good thread and debate. I respect your comments even if i think they are a bit twisted .....lol. I don't profess to agree with everything the government has put forward but as a voter i am supporting the government over the opposition when i way up all the pro's and cons.
Take care Explod!!

Perhaps I went forth with too much in a post. I would be pleased if you could elaborate on the twisted bit though, having been around politics a long time would be pleased to elaborate on specifics.

As for our forum poll, the investment community have allways been more inclined towards the right wing side so I would see as pretty positive towards the Rudd camp

numbercruncher · 8 August 2007

2020hindsight said:
explod - now you're thinkin like a pollie lol - what a ripper tactic that would be - defer it to 08 lol - ahh - life is full of funny lill anecdotes aint it
guess they'd have to change it to "kevins your mate in 08" - and in a hurry .

Haha i just went checked kevin08.com and the following message with a link to kevin07.com

Oh for Kevin's sake! It's not 08 yet!

I bet you're one of those people who buys Christmas presents in June.

arminius · 8 August 2007

gday aussie paul,
you seem like a reasonable sort of bloke, but i could not disagree with your political reasoning any more.
as a lot of people have, and i hope continue to point out, the howard govt has not only been asleep at the wheel for 10 years, but they have driven us down a poorly lit dead-end street.
15 years of economic prosperity, primarily fuelled by a massive resource boom and radical reforms by keating etc.
the economic hardship under keating ie 18% interest rates- which were halved by the time jh got in, was the state's fault, and a consequence of the prosperity of the time, according to jh.

i havent posted here for ages because frankly im sick of some of the narrow minded and frankly stupid people who fail to face facts. the sad thing is, and the reason why so many posters are passionate about this election is that there is potential for our country to go down the gurgler, financially, socially, and morally.
one very small example.. no action on the horrific state of aboriginal townships for over a decade, despite countless official reports, and suddenly the senate has two days to check the legislation. they are about to make a new law, with many controversial points, and have given the final 'checkers' a couple of days to ensure it is the right thing for the future of the aboriginal culture. 10 years of s.w.a-- and then a rush job. the report on which this action was based had within it about a hundred recomendations. how many were implemented? NONE. what sort of government ignores its people, then ignores those who study the problem and come up with potential solutions?
you talk about howards fiscal competence...6 weeks ago-how much will this cost john? '10's of millions'. a few days ago- minimum 500million per year. bit of a difference no?
personally i dont care how much they spend as long as they get it right.
honesty, integrity, compassion, balance.
four qualities jh, abbott, downer, ruddock, minchin, hefernan, nelson, bishop, coonan would not have between them.
i dont know if labor do, but im giving them a go.

cheers. Brett.

moXJO · 8 August 2007

arminius said:
i havent posted here for ages because frankly im sick of some of the narrow minded and frankly stupid people who fail to face facts. the sad thing is, and the reason why so many posters are passionate about this election is that there is potential for our country to go down the gurgler, financially, socially, and morally.
.

Ever check the condition of the states NSW and QLD in particular. Last time I looked they were run by Labor and run as badly as you can get. Don’t call people stupid because they don't see it your way when you ramp labor. And like I said before Rudd needs to show a bit more substance because I don't see any great future direction showing up in any of his ideas atm either.In fact he pretty much is a younger version of johnny.

--B-- · 8 August 2007

arminius said:
i havent posted here for ages because frankly im sick of some of the narrow minded and frankly stupid people who fail to face facts.

ahhhh... "if you dont agree with me youre ignorant and stupid"

such a telling comment...

nioka · 8 August 2007

arminius said:
there is potential for our country to go down the gurgler, financially, socially, and morally.

And I had thought it already had!!!

mark70920 · 8 August 2007

Where will all the money come from when the resources boom is over , is the Howard government encouraging young people to get careers in Engineering , physics , biogology etc , is his government supporting R and D , are they investing long term in sustainable industries. Five years ago prior to the boom the big mining companies practically shut down their exploration departments , Geo's a plenty were thrown on the scrap heap , many never returned to the industries , we were on the edge of the biggest resources boom the world had seen and we were not willing to invest in the future. The country could have made plenty more if we were willing to invest long term but big business and the Liberal party only seem interested in the short term. Nothing has changes.

Labour governments spend big on infrastucture , training etc even in hard economics time so when the good times come we are in the position to reap the benefits.
Liberals Governments just reap the benefits. The mining boom happen due to demand in China it had nothing to do with the Australia Government.

Rafa · 8 August 2007

and now, state govt's 70bill dollar infrastructure spend is considered a bad thing...

70bill is what howard dished out in pre elections bribes during the 2004 campaign

wonder which one was inflationary! maybe if the libs spent on infrastructure, state govt's wouldnt have needed to borrow the funds

The Mint Man · 8 August 2007

moXJO said:
Ever check the condition of the states NSW and QLD in particular. Last time I looked they were run by Labor and run as badly as you can get. Don’t call people stupid because they don't see it your way when you ramp labor. And like I said before Rudd needs to show a bit more substance because I don't see any great future direction showing up in any of his ideas atm either.In fact he pretty much is a younger version of johnny.

well said

The Mint Man · 8 August 2007

why am I not surprised
I have been on the wrong end of the a unions dirty tricks (and I was a memberat the time!!) so I can understand this poor womans frustration.

Tasmanian union accused of unfair dismissal
Posted Sat Aug 4, 2007 8:20am AEST, ABC

As unions continue to attack Federal workplace laws, a former Tasmanian union employee has accused her old boss of unfair dismissal.

Cassie Whitehall says her claims of bullying were ignored and she was sacked without warning.

She claims she began to be bullied soon after starting work as a receptionist with the Australian Services Union last year.

Ms Whitehall says her complaint was ignored and she was sacked without reason.

"I was treated the way that all unions are fighting against being treated," she said.

Industrial law lecturer and former Tasmanian Labor Attorney General, Peter Patmore, says if the facts are as Ms Whitehill states, there appears to have been a lack of care on the part of the union.

"Particularly coming from a union I mean this is what unions are for isn't it," Mr Patmore said.

Unions involved in the dispute say the ABC has only part of the story, but they're seeking legal advice before providing further information.

So going off that last comment one would assume that the union would want to put their side of the story forward ASAP, yeh?...... No were still waiting!

Union attack on WorkChoices 'two-faced'
Posted Sun Aug 5, 2007 8:26am AEST

The union movement has been accused of hypocrisy over its attack on WorkChoices. (File photo) (Getty Images: Ian Waldie)
The Federal Government has accused the union movement of hypocrisy in its attack on WorkChoices, with two Tasmanian unions accused of unfair dismissal.

A former Community and Public Sector Union worker was reinstated this week after taking his complaint of unfair dismissal to the state industrial commission.

In another case, a Hobart woman has accused the Tasmanian branch of the Australian Services Union (ASU) of sacking her without reason.

No-one from the ASU would be interviewed, as there was a signed settlement between the parties including a confidentiality clause.

Federal Forestry Minister and Tasmanian Senator Eric Abetz says it appears to be one rule for unions and another for other employers.

"I'm sure we won't be seeing Sharan Burrows and Julia Gillard flying down to Tasmania to highlight this case, nor will Kevin Rudd be coming down to highlight this case," he said.

"What it shows is the two-faced approach of the union movement and the Labor Party to this situation."

Then this early today

Tasmanian ALP president holds his tongue on Federal parliament accusations
Posted Wed Aug 8, 2007 5:35am AEST

The President of the Tasmanian branch of the Labor Party has declined to comment on claims made about him in Federal Parliament.

The Workplace Services Minister Joe Hockey has accused Sean Kelly, who's also head of the state branch of the Australian Services Union, of being deceitful.

The accusation follows claims from a former A-S-U employee who says she was sacked without reason and not given union representation.

The Federal Government says the Workplace Ombudsman will investigate the case.

Mr Kelly says he'll release a statement about Mr Hockey's remarks later today.

Ok so my first quote was from the 4th Aug, the second was from the 5th Aug and the last was from today at 5:30am. By my count that makes 4 days and we still havn't had the unions 'side of the story'. The ABC even says in the last article that they were expecting to hear from the union by 'later today', I dont know about anyone else but I think 'later today' has already passed.
When will we get their 'side of the story'? What are they trying to hide?

Cheers

mark70920 · 8 August 2007

No worries just go to Workers Ombundsman she will sort it out , if they are legally in the wrong they are in trouble.
But if they employ less than 100 people they can't legally be in the wrong or if they employ over a 100 people they most likely sacked her for operational reasons so still can't be legally wrong.
They may be morally wrong but the new work laws lack morales , so I think she is screwed.

PS Shame on these so called unionist if they are morally wrong , still doesn't mean these bad laws are right.

arminius · 8 August 2007

the new anti labor campaign by business is interesting.

which two men in the past took away the rights of ordinary workers? who made it illegal to take strike action? who looked after business at the expense of the workforce and general poulation? who used bureaucracy and tighter 'security' measures to control the population?

Benito Mussilini and Adolf Hitler.

mexican · 10 August 2007

AWA's no thanks!
Australia is all about "A FAIR GO" and AWA's are not.
Just heading down the American way.

moXJO · 10 August 2007

mexican said:
AWA's no thanks!
Australia is all about "A FAIR GO" and AWA's are not.
Just heading down the American way.

What effect do you think tearing up awa's will have on bosses and employment?

mexican · 10 August 2007

moXJO said:
What effect do you think tearing up awa's will have on bosses and employment?

What effect do you think AWA's have on unskilled and migrant workers?

ELECTIONS - Labor or Liberal

Who do you think will win the next election Labor or Liberal?

Labor (Kevin Rudd)

Liberal (John Howard)

AussiePaul72

explod

explod

AussiePaul72

2020hindsight

2020hindsight

explod

explod

numbercruncher

Beware of Dropbears

arminius

moXJO

menace to society

--B--

nioka

mark70920

Rafa

The Mint Man

The Mint Man

mark70920

arminius

mexican

moXJO

menace to society

mexican

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