ELECTIONS - Labor or Liberal
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NO, less casual employment and migrant / unskilled workers not working more for less! What effect would it have, if we have a level playing ground, not one way.
It has gone from one extreme to the other, in the middle is where it should be.
Remember,
Do I dislike Howard and his liberal condescending government like silver spoon Downer, hell yeah.
I just don't like a leader/government that appeals to people's fears.
Do I like Labor, no. I use to vote Democrats, but they've imploded.
- John Howard as treasurer gave Australia very high interest rates too, but he seems to have forgotten that.
- All commentators compliment Howard as a very good politician. Not an honest moral one. But his spin doctors some how managed to come up with the term "Honest John", probably sarcastically.
- Liberal government was just in the right place at the right time. China could have boomed on anyone's watch. Australia just happens to have what China wants. They don't care who sells it to them.
- Investing in the future through education is where tax dollars should be spent, not cutting education funding. Now uni's have to appeal to the overseas full fee paying students. I'm an Asian, but attending a postgrad class and seeing 80% overseas students just out undergrad, you know that you're not going to be getting the quality class participation.
- Record tax surplus every year just means the government is not spending enough on schools, hospitals, infrastructure, etc. Putting extra $10 a week in my pocket doesn't do me any better. Putting that $10 from everyone for the good of the community is much better spent.
- The IR laws were voted on around (I think on) Melbourne Cup Day. Good way to distract everyone.
Do I dislike Howard and his liberal condescending government like silver spoon Downer, hell yeah.
I just don't like a leader/government that appeals to people's fears.
Do I like Labor, no. I use to vote Democrats, but they've imploded.
None or little , if the business fundementals are good and the management is flexible it will not have much of an effect. (The CEO bonus may be reduce by a few percent)
If the business relies on explotation of unskilled labour it will make things harder for the employer , but these sort of people usually find a way around paying a fair days pay for a fair days work.
As for unfair dismissal laws under Labour if you employ less than 15 people then you have 12 months before the laws kick in and 6 months for larger companies. If you can't assess an employee in that time you will most likely end up out of business any way. (Got this from Difference of opinion last night on the ABC)
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I have been watching this thread since it started and Rudd has been ahead the whole time.... he was way, way ahead at one stage.
But I tell you what 'little Johnny' has come back in a BIG way lately.
You ever employed people in the construction industry? That last statement is a crock of $hite.Back in the days of unfair dismissal builders down here have had employees steal after a period of a few years only to wind up in court because they cant sack them.AWA's need to be tweeked not thrown out.I'd hardly say handing the reigns back to the unions will produce level ground either.
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here here, well said. The CFMEU are a bunch of mugs, you dont want them running ****. IMHO they (the CFMEU) are bad for business, employers and employees.
I have work in both unionised work places(back in the late 80's early 90's) and non unionised work places and stealing has always resulted in instant dismissal.
The same with serious safety breaches like removing someone else danger tag (The company wanted to keep this employee, the work force insisted he be sacked and he was)
If the unfair dismissal laws allow someone to steal we need to "tweek" the unfair dismissal laws.
If you want a divided society like the United States keep work choices (The minimum wage will be the next thing to go under JWH)
We need a system with balance , its not about handing back power to the unions its about finding a middle ground.
why not tweak awa's? And I know of a few instances where stealing has resulted in a compo payout for the thief when fired.
I think people who steal from their employer should be sacked and the law should reinforce that no matter what system they are employed under.(They should also be charged and arrested).
Employers who exploit their employees are no different they are stealing money from these people and there should be laws that prevent that sort of behaviour not encourage it.
Again a balanced fair system is needed , John Howards Liberals failed to produce such a system. Thankfully the majority of the work force is still employed under the previous systems , we still have time to change before our society is badly damaged.
there are laws to protect employees. the anti-workchoices howard-haters simply rely on the ALP and union rhetoric that all bosses will screw their employees if they have the chance. the cold fact is, that is simply not the case.
all the workchoices legislation and AWA's do is give each party an equal right to negotiate. of course, the employer has an inherent advantage because they have the job to give out, but this simply gives each person the incentive and onus to make themselves as employable as possible so that they call the shots. this already happens now.
what it also does is ensures if you are an exceptional worker that you are fairly remunerated, and if your workmates choose to bludge, they get the pay they deserve. Rudd wants to bring back a centralised wage system and all this does is provide a disincentive to succeed and try hard.
what do you base this on? innuendo and waffle?
NO I base this on what I have seen working in the UK and what I have study about the United States. We still have a fair even society with a very small underclass , the underclass in the US is massive and its growing all the time in the UK.
I don't want to live in a society of haves and have nots , I am willing to sacrifies some of my personal gains to live in a more even society.
Finland is heavily unionised and has one of the highest standards of living in the world as the employers and unions work together to achieve mutual beneficial outcomes , the power is spread not in the hands of one or the other.
i am on an AWA and i got no problems with AWA's as long as there is a safety net....
pre work choices the system worked fine...
there was AWA's and a safety net via the no discrimination clause where the AWA salary package had to be equal or better than the union agreed one!
why change that unless you want to drive down wages and conditions in the long term.
pre work choices the system worked fine...
there was AWA's and a safety net via the no discrimination clause where the AWA salary package had to be equal or better than the union agreed one!
why change that unless you want to drive down wages and conditions in the long term.
Wasn't the previous system under Howard except he watered down the union bs.Labor had a terrible system that favoured the lazy when they were running it ,and they left it in place for years .Systems don't instantly become problem free overnight.
My friend in Brisbane recently got work.He is unskilled and has a shoulder injury (his doctor actually advised against him working).It took him all of 4 days to get into and he had a few options of other jobs at the time.His job allows for training in any department he wants 1 day a week ,and extra incentives hell they even feed him.He is happy that he has the opportunity to train up.
People complain about skill shortages, but this is a great time for unskilled workers to get something behind them given that employers are desperate to train staff.And they will pay well to retain them.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/...1186530620059.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
Since I've been reading this thread, it is clear that many people are still buying the tripe that Howard has been prattling on about for last 11 years. Nasty, horrid unions are destroying our economic competitiveness etc..
Above is the address of an article in this morning's Sydney Morning Herald. The article disusses the findings from the World Economic Forum which compared the global competitiveness of countries using both hard data and a survey of 11 000 business leaders. Denmark at number 4 (after Switzerland, Finland and Sweden) is well ahead of Australia at no.19. As the article points out, Denmark is characterised by extremely high union membership, a strong welfare system and high spending on training and education. Further, Denmark has low inflation, low unemployment and runs budget surpluses which is completely contrary to what Howard would have us believe would occur here. Demonising unions and cutting education and research expenditure as fast as the paperwork can be completed can hardly be reagarded as sound economic management. Before someone pipes up with the interest rate boogie man, its also noteworthy that a large survey of business economists at the last election found that the it was largely irrelevent which party won government, as it is the global economic situation that dictates interest rates. More garbage that the Australian public has been swallowing.
Since I've been reading this thread, it is clear that many people are still buying the tripe that Howard has been prattling on about for last 11 years. Nasty, horrid unions are destroying our economic competitiveness etc..
Above is the address of an article in this morning's Sydney Morning Herald. The article disusses the findings from the World Economic Forum which compared the global competitiveness of countries using both hard data and a survey of 11 000 business leaders. Denmark at number 4 (after Switzerland, Finland and Sweden) is well ahead of Australia at no.19. As the article points out, Denmark is characterised by extremely high union membership, a strong welfare system and high spending on training and education. Further, Denmark has low inflation, low unemployment and runs budget surpluses which is completely contrary to what Howard would have us believe would occur here. Demonising unions and cutting education and research expenditure as fast as the paperwork can be completed can hardly be reagarded as sound economic management. Before someone pipes up with the interest rate boogie man, its also noteworthy that a large survey of business economists at the last election found that the it was largely irrelevent which party won government, as it is the global economic situation that dictates interest rates. More garbage that the Australian public has been swallowing.
spot on skint.
i reckon those of you reading this who have beautiful homes, nice cars and a healthy bank balance have so because you have worked hard and smart, and been responsible with your income. history will show that it was not due to the perceived brilliance of j howard and p costello.
i put it to you that in the coming years your material wealth will improve, notwithstanding the debarcle going on now, and you will look back on these times and think 'why did we put up with that goose for so long?'.
when other things happen before the election i sometimes think who will be left to vote for the libs. all i can come up with is peter hendy and the C.E.O of Razor Wire's R Us.
(how hot is the chick on Dr Who!!)
i reckon those of you reading this who have beautiful homes, nice cars and a healthy bank balance have so because you have worked hard and smart, and been responsible with your income. history will show that it was not due to the perceived brilliance of j howard and p costello.
i put it to you that in the coming years your material wealth will improve, notwithstanding the debarcle going on now, and you will look back on these times and think 'why did we put up with that goose for so long?'.
when other things happen before the election i sometimes think who will be left to vote for the libs. all i can come up with is peter hendy and the C.E.O of Razor Wire's R Us.
(how hot is the chick on Dr Who!!)
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Something that people seem to be missing here is the effect AWAs will have on those who are most vunerable in our society. The young, the unskilled, those with poor education levels etc.
When the job market turns, the AWA's will go to those who undercut the price other workers will offer. The young will be exploited, the unskilled will have to work for pittance (and not be able to pay off their HSV) and those who can't read will sign something that completely rips them off. It's either that, or don't have a job.
When the job market turns, the AWA's will go to those who undercut the price other workers will offer. The young will be exploited, the unskilled will have to work for pittance (and not be able to pay off their HSV) and those who can't read will sign something that completely rips them off. It's either that, or don't have a job.
Julia
In Memoriam
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You don't mention tax.
" « Encyclopedia of the Nations :: Europe :: Denmark
Denmark
TAXATION
Denmark's taxes are among the highest in the world. Danish residents are liable for tax on global income and net wealth. Nonresidents are liable only for tax on certain types of income from Danish sources. In 1999, the total collected taxes amounted to 51% of the GDP.
The corporate income tax in Denmark is 30%, which must be prepaid during the income tax year to avoid a surcharge.
Personal income tax is collected at state, county and local levels. A tax ceiling ensures that combined income taxes do not exceed 59% of income. Income tax rates are progressive: 39% on income up to €22,118; 45% on income between €22,118 and €36,025; and 60% on income above €36,025. Several kinds of deductions or reductions can be applied to taxable income. There is also a voluntary church tax with an average rate of 0.8%. The social security contribution from employee earnings is 9%, 8% for unemployment insurance and 1% for special pension scheme savings. The voluntary church tax and social security contributions do not count toward the 59% tax ceiling. Tax is withheld at the source. Foreign researchers and key employers may qualify for a gross tax of 25% on their salary instead of paying regular income tax. They are still liable for 9% social security contributions.
Denmark's main indirect tax in the value-added tax (VAT) first introduced in March 1967 with a standard rate of 10%. The current standard rate of 25% was introduced in January 1992. Daily newspapers and a few other goods and services are exempt for the VAT.
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If businesses especially small ones are at the mercy of a collective bargaining agreements and the union and the business shuts down who wins? The employee? The employer? The answer is neither.
