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Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2) outbreak discussion

Will the "Corona Virus" turn into a worldwide epidemic or fizzle out?

  • Yes

    Votes: 37 49.3%

  • No

    Votes: 9 12.0%

  • Bigger than SARS, but not worldwide epidemic (Black Death/bubonic plague)

    Votes: 25 33.3%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 5.3%
  • Total voters
    75
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According to Our world Data , Gibraltar is the most vaxed place on earth.
It has been at a level higher than 99% since about mid June this year.
And yet despite this, according to Govt of Gibraltar
The steady increase in active cases of COVID-19 that Gibraltar experienced throughout October has continued into November, and has become even more exponential in the last few days. This means that it is essential that the public conduct themselves in a cautious and sensible manner bearing in mind that we are still in a global pandemic and that people are losing their lives every day all over the world.
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Note that word exponential.
It seems that as soon as winter hits, cases soar, even if 100% of people are fully vaxed.
Mick
 
mullokintyre said:
According to Our world Data , Gibraltar is the most vaxed place on earth.
It has been at a level higher than 99% since about mid June this year.
And yet despite this, according to Govt of Gibraltar

Note that word exponential.
It seems that as soon as winter hits, cases soar, even if 100% of people are fully vaxed.
Mick
Click to expand...
Epidemiologists are suggesting the new metric be hospitalisations for vaccinated nations, as the old ratio of cases to deaths has fallen by the wayside, especially as treatment protocols have also improved.
Here's Gibralta's situation, proving the value of vaccinations:

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Cases are not translating to deaths as they did in the past.

edit:
"There are 359 active cases of COVID-19 in Gibraltar today, 57 new cases today (72 yesterday), 5 hospitalisations (1 of which is in the CCU), and a total of 440 persons in isolation. This is in part a reflection of the high rate of testing of Gibraltar residents which allows us to catch many more positive cases than would happen elsewhere. However, it is also part of a trend which can be witnessed all over Europe where the number of positive cases are on an upward spiral."
 

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@bellenuit

Apart from unthinkingly parroting the bureaucratic narrative, I'm still wondering how a personal medical choice with potentially lifelong ramifications, is selfish?
 
You guys do realise Gibraltar is really small, the wife and I walked from one end to the other, including climbing over the top, in 5 hours?
It is only 6.8klm/sq and only has 33,000 residents.
 
wayneL said:
Apart from unthinkingly parroting the bureaucratic narrative, I'm still wondering how a personal medical choice with potentially lifelong ramifications, is selfish?
Click to expand...

Firstly, it is not unthinkingly parroting the bureaucratic narrative. The narrative has achieved the desired results when followed, so that suggests the narrative is correct. It is not an exact science and knowledge is still evolving, but largely serious illness has been contained where vaccinations are combined with the appropriate social measures. It is where deviations from the narrative have taken place that things have got out of hand. That is why many countries are experiences serious illnesses predominantly among the unvaccinated and an increase in infection when the social measure are eased too soon. Your narrative, devoid of scientific backing, has produced results that do not support your narrative. According to your narrative, vaccines do not prevent infection or prevent transmission. I have shown in my recent posts that this is false, as studies have proven the opposite to be true. I know you do not accept any evidence that doesn't support your narrative, but I can do little about that if you won't educate yourself.

Secondly, a medical choice has to be seen in the context of society as a whole and not just your personal wellbeing. If one choses not to be vaccinated and then hibernates in the mountains for months on end, then it has no consequence. But if one choses not to be vaccinated and takes no precautions regarding mask wearing and social distancing, then that can be seen as a selfish choice if one insists on commingling with others, particularly if there are vulnerable people among them who, for whatever reason, cannot get vaccinated themselves or as part of their job have to attend to you in circumstances where it is not possible to observe the social precautions.

You won't see that as selfish (which you obviously don't) as you hold the false belief that vaccines do not prevent infection or transmission. But we have clinical results proving you wrong. So while you may regard someone who choses to remain unvaccinated and not observe the social precautions which continuing to commingle with the rest of society as not being selfish, those who understand the science would disagree.
 
And in another potentially good news rsult, Australian researhcers may have found a way to make mRna vaccines more effective with fewer unpleasant side effects.
From Todays OZ
Scientists have discovered a way to make mRNA Covid-19 vaccines potentially more effective and limit side effects in a discovery that could transform the formulation of Pfizer and Moderna jabs.

Researchers at the Hudson Institute of Medical Research in Melbourne identified how to “turn off” a cell immune sensor known as TLR7 that recognises foreign RNA but is associated with inflammation that causes side effects, including fatigue, severe headache, chills and injection-site pain.

The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines use a modification of mRNA that reduces activation of TLR7, but the method also reduces the vaccine efficiency and ability to trigger the production of antibodies.

“The discovery … has the potential to help decrease inflammation caused by the mRNA vaccine while facilitating the efficacy of the vaccine,” said the lead scientist responsible for the technology, Michael Gantier from Hudson Institute.

“The issue of inflammation triggered by mRNA vaccines directly underpins their efficacy.

“It conditions how much mRNA can be injected, which in turn impacts the protection the vaccine can confer.”
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One hopes that further research does not bring up any gotchas.
Mick
 
Belli said:
An odd statement there.

Research is never static so obviously there will be new information and assessments.
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I was thinking about the early 2020 promising initial research in Queensland onCovid vaccines that got halted when it turned out the vaccine gave false positive reaction to HIV.
Killed it stone dead.
Mick
 
Belli said:
More distribution of utter crap from this moron of a politician

www.abc.net.au

CoronaCheck: Are Adelaide's hospitals full of vaccinated patients?

Australians received another round of text messages from United Australia Party MP Craig Kelly this week, linking to a video making dubious assertions about COVID-19 vaccines.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
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Well, if you read the ABC article, what Kelly has initially claimed is true.
Namely that the hospitals are full of vaccinated people.
The problem is the next conclusion drawn from the data, namely that the bvaccination caused the hospitalisation, rather than the effects of the virus.
But as we have seen so often, so few people understand the difference between correlation and causation.
mick
 
mullokintyre said:
Well, if you read the ABC article, what Kelly has initially claimed is true.
Namely that the hospitals are full of vaccinated people.
The problem is the next conclusion drawn from the data, namely that the bvaccination caused the hospitalisation, rather than the effects of the virus.
But as we have seen so often, so few people understand the difference between correlation and causation.
mick
Click to expand...

Your claim is utter tosh.

The majority are unvaccinated and that has been the situation from the get go. Breakthrough infections will account for a number of the vaccinated patients but that was expected plus they may have other conditions such as cancer, diabities which is exacerbated by being infected with Covid.

NSW alone

1637279066938.png
 
And to add

www1.racgp.org.au

newsGP - Unvaccinated patients dominate COVID deaths and ICU

Most people who have died from COVID-19 in NSW had not received a vaccine, while no one under 70 has died having received two doses.
www1.racgp.org.au

"Less than 2% of people admitted to intensive care in New South Wales in the first 11 weeks of the recent outbreak were fully vaccinated, the latest NSW Health weekly surveillance report shows.

The document, which gives a breakdown of the vaccination status of all those who enter the hospital system with COVID-19, also shows that none of the 15 fully vaccinated patients who died of the disease were under 70."

There is a link to the full report in the article which is here.

 
It might be worth pondering the definition of "unvaccinated" when viewing published statistics.

To my understanding, a person is still considered to be unvaccinated, until a full 14 days have elapsed, since receipt of their second jab.

So, if vaccine injury were to cause an influx of hospital patients, those patients would likely be categorised as "unvaccinated" (i.e. single dose, or too soon after second dose to be deemed vaccinated).
 
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Belli said:
Your claim is utter tosh.

The majority are unvaccinated and that has been the situation from the get go. Breakthrough infections will account for a number of the vaccinated patients but that was expected plus they may have other conditions such as cancer, diabities which is exacerbated by being infected with Covid.

NSW alone

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Click to expand...
Ok, here is the quote from the ABC article posted
With more than 90 per cent of over 16s having now received at least one jab, it's no surprise that vaccinated people are more likely to be represented in hospital data, a point Fact Check has previously explained.
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Thats is what I quoted, and you can argue whether its Tosh , but tell it to the ABC.Go back and read the article if you don't believe me.
I was highlighting the differences between causation and correlation, which seemed to have not been understood by Kelly et al.
Mick
 
mullokintyre said:
Ok, here is the quote from the ABC article posted

Thats is what I quoted, and you can argue whether its Tosh , but tell it to the ABC.Go back and read the article if you don't believe me.
I was highlighting the differences between causation and correlation, which seemed to have not been understood by Kelly et al.
Mick
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If 100% of the entire population is vaccinated then 100% of patients admitted to hospital will be vaccinated.

But that wasn't the aim of the trash Kelly posted.
 
Belli said:
If 100% of the entire population is vaccinated then 100% of patients admitted to hospital will be vaccinated.

But that wasn't the aim of the trash Kelly posted.
Click to expand...
And what a perfect smoke screen, such high vaccination rates, have created!

Just as their makers intended!!
 
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