Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[chiff]

And to add-Indonesia want a regional solution to the refugee problems.Perhaps they see Australia as having a fortress Australia solution.With these contradictory views-never the twain will meet!

 

[basilio]

And so do you. Not even you, with your imaginative spin can claim that we are responsible for tragedies that occur in other countries. Perhaps we should apologise for making Australia an attractive destination for illegal economic "refugees".

I suppose that your fertile imagination can even make a link that our carbon emissions policies are responsible for the deaths of 130 Mexicans in last weeks floods.

And exactly in which delirious world of make believe do you come up with this sort of dribble Calliope?

I never suggested that I knew enough to accuse the current Government of being responsible for the deaths of the asylum seekers. It would require a complete investigation of all the facts.

My only observation was that relying on Andrew Bolts comment would be a poor judgement as borne out by the extra information that was included in report from The Australian.

And then you decide to bait me with a completely ludicrous off topic comment on climate change ?

Just whackers.

 

[Calliope]

I wonder whether they think that Australia is responsible for much of their own refugee problems,with our soldiers killing Muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Rubbish. Most of these are economic refugees. The ones fleeing from persecution are as a result of persecution from other Muslims or in your words, from their "brothers". Most of those on the boat that sank were Lebanese. Their own country is being over-run by Syrians fleeing from the civil war between their "brothers" in Syria.

And basilio's inane contribution:

And exactly in which delirious world of make believe

Sorry if I intruded into your world.

 

[basilio]

Rubbish. Most of these are economic refugees. The ones fleeing from persecution are as a result of persecution from other Muslims or in your words, from their "brothers". Most of those on the boat that sank were Lebanese. Their own country is being over-run by Syrians fleeing from the civil war between their "brothers" in Syria.

And basilio's inane contribution:



Sorry if I intruded into your world.

And you Calliope remind me why ASF continues to drive away contributions to these forums.

 

[chiff]

Can anyone tell me how much money these people-those that risk their lives on boats-have when they come to Australia?
I believe that well over 95% of asylum seekers are judged to be genuine refugees,not economic refugees.
I know if I had money I would find an easier way than risking my life.
I was putting forward ideas,but I must have hit a sore spot with the all-knowing.

 

[noco]

NOCO when you start using Andrew Bolt as a reference for a story your in quick sand.

Just for interest if you go back to a previous reference in The Australian you get a quite different picture.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...rs-still-missing/story-fn3dxix6-1226728948079

Obviously we don't have a full picture of what has happened (and I guess we wont get it under Abbott) but Bolt deals in deceit and half truths.

I don't see any deceit on Bolts part.....The Australian Navy could not locate this stricken boat because it had broken up and the wreckage had washed up on the beach on Java..The picture of the remains of the boat is there for all to see.

As we all know, had the call been made to the Labor Party they would have picked these people up in Indonesian waters and taken them to Christmas Island.

I think you are way out of line on this one......but of course anything to muddy Abbott's credentials is what you lefties would strive for.

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Can anyone tell me how much money these people-those that risk their lives on boats-have when they come to Australia?
I believe that well over 95% of asylum seekers are judged to be genuine refugees,not economic refugees.
I know if I had money I would find an easier way than risking my life.
I was putting forward ideas,but I must have hit a sore spot with the all-knowing.

Tell them to get in line and come through the front door and not the back door.

 

[chiff]

I don't see any deceit on Bolts part.....The Australian Navy could not locate this stricken boat because it had broken up and the wreckage had washed up on the beach on Java..The picture of the remains of the boat is there for all to see.

As we all know, had the call been made to the Labor Party they would have picked these people up in Indonesian waters and taken them to Christmas Island.

I think you are way out of line on this one......but of course anything to muddy Abbott's credentials is what you lefties would strive for.

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the front door and not the back door.

Tell them to get in line and come through

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Can anyone inform me if I am wrong on the statements I made regarding money and refugee status?We have to do more create our own realities.But perhaps not!

 

[drsmith]

Chiff,

The previous government put the suger on the table and that's why we have our present problem. Indonesia was never going to do much while it was at odds with the previous Labor/Green government's broader ideological position.

 

[Julia]

Can anyone inform me if I am wrong on the statements I made regarding money and refugee status?We have to do more create our own realities.But perhaps not!

Chiff, I've never seen any claim or counter claim regarding the financial situation of asylum seekers, apart perhaps from their own statements that they have paid people smugglers $20,000 or more per person.

What seems unfair to many is that, during Labor's time in office, the numbers of asylum seekers arriving without identification via people smugglers, have completely absorbed the processing capacity of the Immigration Department, not to mention provision of accommodation and other services, thus relegating those without the means to pay people smugglers to even longer being spent in the squalid camps where they've existed for many years now.

I think many Australians would like to see genuine refugees admitted to Australia on the basis of the greatest need, rather than capacity to pay people smugglers.

 

[Calliope]

Can anyone inform me if I am wrong on the statements I made regarding money and refugee status?We have to do more create our own realities.But perhaps not!

Perhaps you should do your own research, especially on your belief "that well over 95% of asylum seekers are judged to be genuine refugees,not economic refugees."

I would be interested in the outcome of your research. Please provide links.

 

[IFocus]

I think many Australians would like to see genuine refugees admitted to Australia on the basis of the greatest need, rather than capacity to pay people smugglers.

Not if those genuine refugees are from Somalia they just a bomb waiting to go off.

 

[drsmith]

Operation Sovereign Borders update Monday September 30

95 passengers from 3 boats. Of these, 7 were West Papuans who have since been returned to PNG. A further 18 are the Indians who arrived in Darwin and are expected to be returned to India. The remaining 70 people from a third boat were transferred to detention on Christmas Island.

A further 103 passengers from 3 boats were returned to Indonesia. From one of those boats, a further 56 are either dead or missing.

A further 128 asylum seekers had been transferred to Manus and Nauru.

Not forming part of the above briefing is a further 78 arrivals at Christmas Island today.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ads-to-indonesia/story-fn9hm1gu-1226729980300

Operation Sovereign Borders update Monday September 23

Boat arrivals since the new government was sworn in (18/9 to 23/9): 1 boat, 31 passengers and 2 crew.
Boat arrivals during the post-election caretaker period: (8/9 to 21/9): 7 boats, 475 passengers and 16 crew. All 7 of these boats were subject to individual media release under the previous government's policy.

There are currently 798 asylum seekers on Manus Island and 710 on Nauru. A further 24 are expected to be transferred to Manus and 34 to Nauru late Tuesday. The target turnaround period for transfer to an offshore processing centre is 48 hours.

Since September 8, a total of 4 asylum seekers have voluntarily returned to their country of origin (2 from Manus and 2 from Nauru).

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-...-operation-sovereign-borders-briefing/4975630

 

[So_Cynical]

Tell them to get in line and come through

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Can anyone inform me if I am wrong on the statements I made regarding money and refugee status?We have to do more create our own realities.But perhaps not!

20K is a figure often quoted, usually paid by the "refugees" Australian settled relatives on a payback arrangement...refugee "status" has almost nothing to do with wealth and assets, has to do with persecution and safety at "home"

 

[bellenuit]

20K is a figure often quoted, usually paid by the "refugees" Australian settled relatives on a payback arrangement...refugee "status" has almost nothing to do with wealth and assets, has to do with persecution and safety at "home"

From what I have read, granting refugee status in many cases is a result of Australia not being able to prove they are not persecuted at home rather than them proving they are. Why else would they almost universally destroy their travel/identity documentation. It makes it next to impossible for Australia to determine the veracity of their claims and leaves them no option but to grant refugee status as they cannot return them back or detain them forever.

 

[noco]

I have no objection to immigrants entering Australia so long as they can speak English....have the correct paper work upon entry....have some trade or profession and are not muslims and don't expect hand outs from the tax payer.....I guess that would eliminate 99%...too easy.

 

[basilio]

I don't see any deceit on Bolts part.....The Australian Navy could not locate this stricken boat because it had broken up and the wreckage had washed up on the beach on Java..The picture of the remains of the boat is there for all to see.

As we all know, had the call been made to the Labor Party they would have picked these people up in Indonesian waters and taken them to Christmas Island.

I think you are way out of line on this one......but of course anything to muddy Abbott's credentials is what you lefties would strive for.

Noco if you check on the other report made by The Australian there are far more details of the ships passage which Andrew Bolt left out. These cast quite a different light on the situation which is why I said I don't accept anything Bolt says unless there is another supporting source. In my experience he is adept at misinformation.

With regard to what happened with the current disaster. The government has now released the record of events as they unfolded. From all accounts the navy did everything by the book. In fact that was the comment from the Labour leader Chris Bowen.

Chris Bowens criticism of Tony Abbott was that the Government didn't release the record of events 2 days ago and therefore stop any questions about the integrity of the Navy in its actions or indeed the government itself.

 

[Whiskers]

20K is a figure often quoted, usually paid by the "refugees" Australian settled relatives on a payback arrangement...refugee "status" has almost nothing to do with wealth and assets, has to do with persecution and safety at "home"

On a technical legal note that's true with eligibility for asylum too... which raises a legal and moral point that is often missed in these issues... who was responsible for the circumstances creating the refugee status in the first place.

Probably forgotten by many, but the Allies (including Aus) provided temporary protection for Kosovo refugees as a result of the Serbian invasion and NATO war in response, albeit Howard was reluctant at first, and many returned home after the war with a $3,000 inducement... the remainder eventually forcibly returned.

What is strikingly absent in the current 'debate' is any responsibility for the cause of most of the boat people... the US invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq.

The point I'm getting at is the mess you can get into when you act rashly, without careful thought of the consequences especially in retaliation like the US for the 9/11 attack.

There is always a cause, but too many have become obsessed with the effect and disowning any responsibility. I'm not advocating opening the doors to all the boats, on the contrary. There are now too many criminal and opportunistic types trying to exploit a now well developed system.

The boat arrivals in Aus by financial year seems to show it wasn't too badly out of control until Gillard took over when it went really pear shaped. Rudd's about face slowed the flow a bit again... but the real problem Abbott has is his gung-ho attitude a symptom of the Howard era declaring war without thinking through the consequences fully.

I wonder how many people understand that when people like Indonesia say it's Australia's problem... it's little to do with border sovereignty, but more that Aus was actually party to the cause of the refugee crisis and has a moral responsibility toward them.

How things would have been so different if the US led forces had more respect and understanding for the local culture.

A classic case of;

​

“The faith of religion is belief on insufficient evidence.”

​

“When morality comes up against profit, it is seldom that profit loses.”

... and why Abbott (as in the Libs former decisions to go to war) is getting a bit of their own back

 

[Julia]

20K is a figure often quoted, usually paid by the "refugees" Australian settled relatives on a payback arrangement...refugee "status" has almost nothing to do with wealth and assets, has to do with persecution and safety at "home"

On the contrary, the $20K was the figure quoted by an asylum seeker returned to Indonesia in the last few days, reported in his own words on ABC Radio interview. The journalist added that the client had wasted his money, given the outcome. The journalist went on to say that being returned to Indonesia would be no real deterrent to the person concerned, who would simply come up with yet another equivalent amount to have another go at getting to Australia.

 

[Calliope]

On a technical legal note that's true with eligibility for asylum too... which raises a legal and moral point that is often missed in these issues... who was responsible for the circumstances creating the refugee status in the first place.

...I wonder how many people understand that when people like Indonesia say it's Australia's problem... it's little to do with border sovereignty, but more that Aus was actually party to the cause of the refugee crisis and has a moral responsibility toward them.

That is rubbish in the same vein as spouted by idiots like Sarah Hanson-Young. The ones fleeing persecution are fleeing persecution by other Muslims; Shias fleeing from Sunnis. The Shias are not welcome in Indonesia which is 90% Sunni. That's why they encourage and assist them to move on to Australia.

The bulk of illegals attempting to get here now are from Lebanon, Iran, Somalia, Sri Lanka, Vietnam, etc and have nothing to do with Australia being "party to the cause of the refugee crisis".

Those coming from Afghanistan are mainly Hazaras fleeing from the Taliban.

Perhaps you could tell me what nationalities are coming from as a result of American and Australian aggression..

 

[bunyip]

Chris Bowens criticism of Tony Abbott was that the Government didn't release the record of events 2 days ago and therefore stop any questions about the integrity of the Navy in its actions or indeed the government itself.

Pffftt.....Given the abysmal performance of the Labor government in failing to fix the illegal boat people mess that they created, Chris Bowen has a damn cheek in criticizing any part of the Abbot government's efforts to address the problem.
In just three weeks Tony Abbot and his immigration minister Scott Morrison have achieved more in dealing with this issue than Bowen achieved during his term as Immigration minister in the previous government.