Asylum immigrants - Green Light

[chiff]

As all oppostions find when they become governments-that is easier to be outside the tent throwing stones.
Whatever happened to Suu Kyi now that she is inside the tent in Myanmar?
I think that we find that in our own lives.Perhaps we should ask ourselves -what would I do in that position?-and then maybe we would not throw as many stones.
Wouldn't be as much fun or sport though.

 

[sails]

As all oppostions find when they become governments-that is easier to be outside the tent throwing stones.
Whatever happened to Suu Kyi now that she is inside the tent in Myanmar?
I think that we find that in our own lives.Perhaps we should ask ourselves -what would I do in that position?-and then maybe we would not throw as many stones.
Wouldn't be as much fun or sport though.

We should also consider the thousands of genuine refugees who do not have money and expensive luggage to force their way to Australia. I believe these genuine ones should be given first priority and I understand that is the direction the coalition would like to take once they have stemmed the massive flow of unauthorised arrivals left to them by labor.

 

[drsmith]

Operation Sovereign Borders update Monday September 23

Boat arrivals since the new government was sworn in (18/9 to 23/9): 1 boat, 31 passengers and 2 crew.
Boat arrivals during the post-election caretaker period: (8/9 to 21/9): 7 boats, 475 passengers and 16 crew. All 7 of these boats were subject to individual media release under the previous government's policy.

There are currently 798 asylum seekers on Manus Island and 710 on Nauru. A further 24 are expected to be transferred to Manus and 34 to Nauru late Tuesday. The target turnaround period for transfer to an offshore processing centre is 48 hours.

Since September 8, a total of 4 asylum seekers have voluntarily returned to their country of origin (2 from Manus and 2 from Nauru).

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-...-operation-sovereign-borders-briefing/4975630

Chris Bowen's response and it would seem an absence of journalists.

 

[Julia]

Chris Bowen's response and it would seem an absence of journalists.

LOL, how embarrassing for Mr Bowen.

 

[Whiskers]

I'm nor demonising, Julia;
But I am deeply suspicious when the first policy change of a new Gov'mint consists of - yet another - delaying tactic. For that, I'm holding a mirror in front of our budgie smuggler, who, for 6 years, has done nothing but criticize and block. I don't deny anybody's right to fawn over him, nor do I complain when a great many (too many) posters on this Forum bag everything the previous government did as "personal ambition", while overlooking the same motivation and procrastination by the new broom.

As someone has coined the phrase: "I don't discriminate. I hate all the barstuds alike."

I know you used it just as a figure of speech, but I try not to get so emotionally evolved to the point of hating people, as some of these posters who seem to love plastering derogatory language all over people they despise... but surely detest being plastered with such themselves.

Pixel, I agree entirely with your point. I find you one of a seemingly fewer posters who can detach themselves form the personalities and politics and ask the obvious questions that any reasonable analytical brain would.

... and Julia, I'd expect a bit more logic from you than apparently having no idea how the plan might eventually work, but seemingly prepared to give them a long leash to demonstrate their success or otherwise. How long?

Does there not appear to be some obvious contradictions on standards pre to post election as well as their stated policy?

I'm (if I may loose my cool for a sec) as pissed off as most other people with the drain on our welfare funds handed out to these people, far in excess of normal welfare payments and want these illegal smugglers shut down as much as anyone, so they are forced to use normal immigration procedures.

I fully support the principle of granting political Asylum where due... but as plainly seen these boat people have about $5,000 for each family person to pay the smugglers, say $20,000 for a small family, and often much more extra to draw on later. So logically this cash each would keep them very comfortably for quite some time in many other Arab or SE Asian countries. Applying a bit of logic it's not too difficult to see most are not true refugees, but imposters preying on our bleeding hearts.

Equally, however when the gov changes tac too much and starts to throw up a shroud of secrecy or delaying information, anyone except their hard core blue blood supporters starts to question what is going on here... especially when there is no factual or logical foundation to delaying notification of arrivals.

I'll repeat again, the smugglers have their own radio and phone communication systems, they don't rely on our media for their intelligence... But on the contrary, if the boats were actually being stopped or the occupants redirected at a faster rate releasing that information in the public domain is a sure fire way to damage the credibility of the smugglers and cause people to reconsider.

I find it an insult on out intelligence for the minister to portray that withholding information on arrivals helps damage the smuggler trade. Given the hopeless chances of a couple of their illogical plans (as previously mentioned) in succeeding, I'm really starting to question the intelligence as well as the ultra-motive this all seems to be leading too.

Weren't we all led to believe the coalition will stop the boats in their tracks once in office! So why is Morrison skiting about turning these people around within 48 hours... but in the next breath he's talking about heaps of extra spending being allocated to accommodate lots more arrivals into the next year or so?

Morrison harped on about funding not being provided past this year... hint, hint... building up to... ooh to hell with our reducing spending and return to surplus as soon as possible... excuse to retain big spending to do some different pork barrelling.

Another issue I'm concerned about is bringing the military into the front line of the reporting process. Smells a bit of tit for tat politicising gov departments especially the services. It's good as promoted to have a General coordinate the activities and Ok to reorganise, if that is what they are really doing, and not just a lot of noise to change a couple of hats... BUT, to have a General in our military stand up at a press conference virtually singing the praises of the government position sends all the wrong messages. The military should be working behind the political scenes full stop, not strung up like a political puppet.

 

[drsmith]

LOL, how embarrassing for Mr Bowen.

Yes, only the camera crews turned up and after he was advised of that, he had a second crack at offering himself up for questions. I suppose one can always hope.

On this topic at least, Labor might have to include a fake journalist or two at their pressers to ask a dixer.

 

[drsmith]

Some interesting information from the inside, both figuratively and literally.

A people smuggler jailed in Indonesia has ridiculed Scott Morrison's vow of silence about new asylum boat arrivals, saying the smuggling networks do not rely on Australian government press releases for their information.

The smuggler, Dawood Amiri, told Fairfax Media that the policy "won't change anything" from the syndicates' point of view.

"When the boat is being rescued and the passengers on board see the Australian authorities, they call the Hawaladar from their satellite phone. Then the smuggler gets the money," Amiri said.

A Hawaladar is a trusted third party, often based in Afghanistan or Pakistan, who holds the money in trust for passengers on boats. The money is only released to the people smuggler when the boat arrives safely.

"This new policy can work only if the Abbott minister buys all the satellite phones in Indonesia (like they want to buy the scrap boats)," Amiri said.

"That's a stupid policy. The politicians are wasting their time."

Asylum seekers also immediately contact their families by phone when they arrive safely in Christmas Island, or they use the island's detention centre computers to tell their stories, often over Facebook.

Amiri, who is serving a six-year prison sentence for his role in people smuggling syndicates, said the information hitherto put out by the Australian government is "just for the rest of the world, not for the network".

Amiri also revealed that even an ordinary mobile phone worked from about 40 nautical miles from Christmas Island if it had global roaming switched on.

"The boys could call the whole world by their personal handphones because its signal was full and strong there," Amiri said.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-silence-on-boat-arrivals-20130924-2ub2z.html

 

[Whiskers]

Some interesting information from the inside, both figuratively and literally.



http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-silence-on-boat-arrivals-20130924-2ub2z.html

That's the way dr! That's what I'm talkin about.

Now I wonder why any reasonable minister wouldn't be aware of that and saved himself all the embarrassment of trying to explain the equivalent of trying to push **** up hill?

Or have I spoken too soon... will he amend the policy to include buying all the satellite phones in Indonesia too.

This is why people wonder if they've done the right thing, when their new man talks sooo much nonsense.

I'll let you in on a secret observation... I initially thought Morrison was a quite intelligent and very articulate person. He would step in beside Abbott in press conferences pre election and rattle of stuff with out any hums or arrs very clearly... however in the first video of him sitting across the table from the General and reaching over to shake hands, I got a little bit of an inkling of that handshake and a boofhead Mark Latham image.

 

[drsmith]

If the smugglers are complaining, the government's obviously doing something right. Otherwise it would be business as usual.

Either that or Dawood Amiri is a little bored in his cell. Either way, the insights he offers on the internals further highlight what is wrong about the trade in the first place and may assist in Operation Sovereign Borders.

 

[Whiskers]

If the smugglers are complaining, the government's obviously doing something right. Otherwise it would be business as usual.

Hardly the smugglers complaining dr, more like laughing. All this information has been broadcast with interviews and undercover reports from Indonesia for many years.

Either that or Dawood Amiri is a little bored in his cell. Either way, the insights he offers on the internals further highlight what is wrong about the trade in the first place and may assist in Operation Sovereign Borders.

No doubt he's bored passing a few years away in Jail until he gets released and goes home to do it all again. It's also well known for years that the money they make helps to compensate for their time in jail if they get caught, similar to the illegal fishing industry poaching in our northern waters. Hence the king-pins with their corrupt associates in Indonesia send lowly skippers to sail the boat. They get far less Jail time.

They can turn the boats back under cover of media blackout, that's ok by me to a certain extent... but the two main ways they will stop the trade is, simple principles of crime, motive and opportunity;

1. take away the incentive to come by boat, with no prospect of landing on Aus soil and never getting a visa,
2. the other is targeting the kingpins, the smuggler. The smuggler needs a certain amount of cooperation from corrupt Indonesian officials to organise his trade.

This is the part where rash public statements like turning back the boats quite physically and buying potential smuggler boats, impinge on the respect, customs and cooperation with working inside another sovereign country with our federal police.

If literally turning back boats and discretely buying potential smuggler boats in Indonesia was to be a significant part of his strategy, Abbott would have been wise to say nothing pre election and just send patrol boats out and turn boats around and agents out to buy the boats unannounced and let the results speak for themselves with press releases.

They got the parts to shut up about and brag about all mixed up. It's a bit akin to the dumb criminal stories like...

A woman was reporting her car as stolen, and mentioned that there was a car phone in it. The policeman taking the report called the phone and told the guy that answered that he had read the ad in the newspaper and wanted to buy the car. They arranged to meet, and the thief was arrested.

 

[IFocus]

If the smugglers are complaining, the government's obviously doing something right. Otherwise it would be business as usual.

Either that or Dawood Amiri is a little bored in his cell. Either way, the insights he offers on the internals further highlight what is wrong about the trade in the first place and may assist in Operation Sovereign Borders.

Can't remember an Australian government suppressing information on the basis of operational matters when it so obviously political another Abbott lie about transparency cannot wait for what else we don't need to know about.

 

[drsmith]

Can't remember an Australian government suppressing information on the basis of operational matters when it so obviously political another Abbott lie about transparency cannot wait for what else we don't need to know about.

''Labor was impotent in response to arrivals. All they could do was announce them and run a water taxi service,'' Mr Morrison said. ''Under the Howard government, suspected illegal entry vessels were not announced on arrival. That was the practice of the failed Rudd and Gillard governments.''

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...al-blackout-says-minister-20130922-2u81u.html

My bolds.

Whiskers,
With regard to Indonesia, there would no doubt be discussions going on behind closed doors.

 

[So_Cynical]

A big day today with 15 new boat arrivals...nothing in the news of course because its a secret....sshhhh.

 

[noco]

Can't remember an Australian government suppressing information on the basis of operational matters when it so obviously political another Abbott lie about transparency cannot wait for what else we don't need to know about.

Well buddy, it has become a military operation and you know the old saying goes "LOSE LIPS SINKS SHIPS".

The ADF have been trained not to telegraph their strategy to the enemy and in this case the people smugglers are the enemy. Surprise is the element of success.

 

[drsmith]

A big day today with 15 new boat arrivals...

You wish.

 

[So_Cynical]

You wish.

Its true! prove me wrong...link me to a press release.

 

[drsmith]

Its true! prove me wrong...link me to a press release.

They'll be one next Monday.

 

[drsmith]

Over 50000 boat arrivals and over 1000 deaths at sea during their time in office and Labor have learned nothing.

Listen to the audio in the link below of Bill shorten and Anthony Albanese from just before one minute in.

http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/201...-cabbie-just-had-bill-shorten-in-the-cab.html

 

[Whiskers]

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...al-blackout-says-minister-20130922-2u81u.html

My bolds.

Whiskers,
With regard to Indonesia, there would no doubt be discussions going on behind closed doors.

If the press release of the Indonesian Foreign minister is any indication, Bishop is clearly in denial and not on the same page, so they have a lot of back room discussions to go to get something going again.

While it's one thing for us all to have an ideological desire to stop the boats, it's quite another to effectively interact with the necessary people to achieve that. The absolute key to prompt success is NOT to insult the other party with broadcasting intentions that interfere with their sovereign rights. As mentioned earlier, it would've been much wiser to shut-up about the boat buying and forcibly turning boats back and amplify the broadcasting of arrivals, brag about the trend going down.

My concern that Abbott and Morrison have sent the wrong impression and got the Indonesian Gov off side has been confirmed. They are deluding themselves if they can stop the boats without their cooperation.

One big difference between the Howard plan they portray as the solution, is that it ignores what was different then to now in the holistic scheme of things. Getting the Indonesian gov offside just makes it all even harder.

This is a classic example of conflict resolution. The principles are the same as between a couple of people or two countries. If you comprehend what Abbott, Morrison and now Bishop has done wrong, collectively (worse than Labor) you will appreciate why it's going to get worse again before it gets better.

Clue, one example... whereas the vast majority of boats were trained (for want of a better phrase) to head for Xmas Island, watch them scatter all across the northern coastline again, but in much greater numbers (than Howard era) and much more experience at stretching our patrol boat resources.

 

[moXJO]

We can have bucket loads of assumptions, but until we get a couple of months data we don't have much to go on. Unless of course your'e a labor supporter, then you can just make up the biggest doom scenario you can think of.