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Asylum immigrants - Green Light

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sails said:
lol So-Cynical - looks like none of your leftie friends will stop you posting silly stuff. I think you have most of on ignore and it has been often explained to you that the coalition are not in government yet until they are sworn in next week sometime.

Until then, labor are in caretaker mode - probably still spending taxpayer funds for all we know but they will be sending the navy out to taxi the unauthorised arrivals in as they have done for nearly six years now and over 50,000 unauthorised arrivals later.

Will a leftie tell SC that he doesn't understand how a change of government works? Or will you guys sit back and let him keep making a fool of himself?...:eek:
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So Cynical, Tony is NOT in the drivers seat yet, you are so much like the ALP, you just DON'T. Get it.
 
So_Cynical said:
Three more boats over the last couple of days....7 since the election.

Any day now Tony should start stopping those boats...any day now. :rolleyes:
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Come back if the count under this Coalition government exceeds 50,000.

In the meantime, don't forget to add the above to Labor's tally as they have arrived technically under their watch as you well know.
 
drsmith said:
Some numbers.

Week ending Friday July 26: 1068 arrivals on 13 boats.
Week ending Friday Aug 02: 619 arrivals on 8 boats.
Week ending Friday Aug 09: 552 arrivals on 8 boats (excludes one boat arrival containing 2 PNG nationals).
Week ending Friday Aug 16: 282 arrivals on 5 boats (also includes 2 arrivals from Boigu Island in the Torres Strait).

http://www.jasonclare.com.au/media/portfolio-releases/home-affairs-and-justice-releases.html
http://www.customs.gov.au/site/media-releases-2013.asp

There have been no further announcements of transfers to Manus Island under the new arrangements so that still stands at around 320 from eight transfers.

http://www.newsroom.immi.gov.au/releases
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Since Friday Aug 16 there's been another 17 boats carrying 1280 arrivals with the most recent arrival announcement being on September 15.

That's a total of 3801 since Kevin Rudd announced the PNG arrangement.

Nineteen groups consisting of one of approximately 20 and the remainder of approximately 40 each have been sent to Manus Island. The total sent is approximately 740. There have been no further transfers to Manus since September 10.
 
Apparently first boat in a week and first one since the coalition were sworn in. So all this carry-on about hiding arrivals when it seems none had arrived until now.

The boat currently at Flying Fish Cove was escorted to the Australian territory by the HMAS Maitland this afternoon. It is believed there are about 30 people onboard, but a spokesman for Immigration Minister Scott Morrison declined to confirm the number onboard or discuss the boat’s arrival.

“Briefings on these matters will be made under Operation Sovereign Borders on a weekly basis,” the spokesman said.

The first briefing is scheduled for tomorrow. At that briefing, the Coalition is expected to reveal how often it will provide other details about asylum seekers including the numbers in each detention facility.
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- See more at: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...y-fn59niix-1226724652217#sthash.ebO6bwCq.dpuf
 
Another boat today so the news is reporting.

I would link to the customs site like the ASF right used to do but there is no press release about the arrival...noalition policy is to not release news of boat arrivals, 6 boats by my count since the election.

Strange that i cant remember Tony ever chanting anything about "stop discussing the boats"
 
So_Cynical said:
Another boat today so the news is reporting.

I would link to the customs site like the ASF right used to do but there is no press release about the arrival...noalition policy is to not release news of boat arrivals, 6 boats by my count since the election.

Strange that i cant remember Tony ever chanting anything about "stop discussing the boats"
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The locals on CI promised to brief the Press every time another boat arrives.
They started today, even sent some footage. The question remains whether our new Rulers will reprimand media organisations that defy their attempts to sweep bad news under the carpet.
 
So_Cynical said:
Another boat today so the news is reporting.

I would link to the customs site like the ASF right used to do but there is no press release about the arrival...noalition policy is to not release news of boat arrivals, 6 boats by my count since the election.

Strange that i cant remember Tony ever chanting anything about "stop discussing the boats"
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pixel said:
The locals on CI promised to brief the Press every time another boat arrives.
They started today, even sent some footage. The question remains whether our new Rulers will reprimand media organisations that defy their attempts to sweep bad news under the carpet.
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You both seem entirely determined not to give a changed perspective under the new government a chance.

Mr Morrison suggests that the daily reporting of boat arrivals was giving people smugglers an advantage, and that instead he will issue a weekly briefing to the media. The first of these is apparently due tomorrow.

But of course you won't even consider that, and instead seem intent on demonising the Coalition's policy before it has even had a chance to get off the ground.

Beats me why you won't hold off your determined anti government ranting until at least after Mr Abbott et al have met with the Indonesian government in a week's time.
 
30 vs 50,000+.

That's where the ledger currently stands between this government and the previous Labor administrations of Gillard and Rudd.
 
Julia said:
Beats me why you won't hold off your determined anti government ranting until at least after Mr Abbott et al have met with the Indonesian government in a week's time.
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Rudd's PNG solution seemed to put a significant dent in the flow leading up to the election... but I suspect many people are wondering why the flow picked up again after the election, and to pick-up on sails point, a few arrived between the election and swearing in.

It should be clear by now that my foot isn't firmly planted in any political camp, rather the camp of responsible , trustworthy, accountable government and sustainable policies.

Julia I think there are a couple of fundamental overriding points here.

So_Cynical, albeit in a bit of a sarcastic tone, correctly points out;
Strange that i cant remember Tony ever chanting anything about "stop discussing the boats"​

Realistically, given his emphasis on accountability and the saturation of his election slogan "Stop the Boats'' to possible cliché status, he needs to be consistent to maintain integrity.

In the political tactics game, if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander. He can hardly cry foul with ant credability.

Secondly even if, as I postulated on another thread earlier, the intent was to deprive the traffickers and their clients of information, it is a dumb idea for the same reason as going to Indonesia to buy potential smuggler boats to deprive the smugglers of their main tool... it has no realistic chance of working.

I wonder how we would feel if say Indonesia adopted a policy to come to Australia to buy up vacant housing for example for a political agenda. In both cases it corrupts the micro and macro economy and causes demand and cost aberrations for Indonesians who can only afford cheap boats or are in the business of reconditioning boats.

But the main point is as Pixel points out, in this day and age the government has no real chance of suppressing information of this nature, where an 'industry' can easily develop to meet that demand for information, the hourly news cycle.

Remember the much touted main theme of Abbotts stop the boats policy was that once the world knew he won office and boat people would be processed offshore and would NEVER get permanent visas... the boats would dwindle to a trickle again.

In theory, that would be a realistic expectation. So what could be motivating the smugglers to keep it up?

I suspect a few reasons.
  • Firstly, Abbott fell into the same trap it bagged Labor for... broadcasting it's intention before it discussed it with, in this case Indonesia.
  • Indonesia took offence to the idea of forcing the boats back
  • Indonesia took offence at the boat buying idea... interfering in another sovereign country
  • Abbott cutting the rate of growth in, and distribution of, foreign aid... leaving Indonesia feeling squeezed for foreign aid.
  • The smugglers and their corrupt public officials have taken a pragmatic view that Abbott won with a smaller swing of votes to him than others and may not last.
The bottom line... people who voted strongly to stop the boats see any attempt to restrict or delay information or fudge the numbers as a concern that something is not working to plan?

Is there a problem with PNG now also, since PNG has also been displeased with Abbotts comments and may have concerns about cuts or redistribution of foreign aid, undermining the Rudd agreement.
 
Whiskers said:
Is there a problem with PNG now also, since PNG has also been displeased with Abbotts comments and may have concerns about cuts or redistribution of foreign aid, undermining the Rudd agreement.
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If transfers to Nauru are anything to go by, it would seem this arrangement has indeed run into strife.

The last transfer under the caretaker administration of Labor was on September 10, over a week before the Coalition was sworn in. This arrangement has helped slow the boats, of that there is no doubt but it was only ever designed to get Labor to the election.

The overall theme of Kevin Rudd's concession speech (or should I say victory speech ??) is further proof of that. The Prime minister who reignited this problem in the first place was never going to solve it.

I would also point out that at least three of the boat arrivals that arrived after the September 7 election result would have departed before the poll itself.

Before condemning the Abbott government, it might be worthwhile giving them a chance. Perhaps not as much latitude as Labor with over 50,000 arrivals by boat and over 1000 deaths at sea, but a reasonable time at least to see if they can solve this problem.

On the matter of boat arrival announcements,

Mr Morrison said weekly briefings would be held in lieu of contemporaneous announcements, with the first scheduled to take place today. The minister defended the new arrangements, which have been criticised by Labor as needlessly secretive, saying people-smugglers exploited the information. "Taking control of how that information is released denies people-smugglers the opportunity to exploit such information," he said in a statement. "Information on arrivals will be provided and it will be provided in a way that supports the objectives of the operation to stop the boats."

In an apparent reference to the frequent drownings or disasters at sea that befell asylum boats and their passengers, Mr Morrison said additional briefings would be held "as necessary in relation to specific events". Other information, such as the number of bridging visas issued, would be updated monthly, Mr Morrison said.
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http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...der-and-blackout/story-fn9hm1gu-1226724814899
 
I see your point drsmith, as a narrative, but the point I'm trying to make is more from a diagnostic perspective.

Do smugglers rely on government release of arrival information for feedback of their success? I doubt it. The press releases don't identify the names of the boat or people. How would a smuggler know if his boat got through?

Remember, the smugglers also prefer less media attention, after all their business is by nature covert.

They used mobile phones and radio long before the media started paying close attention. Smugglers have their own lines of communication and information and are more likely to perceive a government clamming down on releasing arrivals information as a sign of government embarrassment.

Logically, prompt release and widespread media attention of boat sinking's and drowning's of asylum seekers goes to erode asylum seeker confidence in a smugglers business. Why would our government not want to get this information out asap to help discourage the trade?

Logically and analytically, in a nutshell it was the wide spread media attention of both Abbott and Rudd aligning on the same policy of no asylum seekers would set foot on Australian soil with the announcement of the PNG deal that resulted in a substantial drop in arrivals.

So to repeat the obvious question, why have the numbers apparently started rising again?

Isn't nit picking about whether a boat left before the election or swearing in of the gov completely irrelevant? After all the smugglers know what the polls were saying weeks before the election, so isn't it reasonable to suspect they had better intelligence about how the Abbott plan was going to be received by the Indonesian gov than we do?

While the three word slogans were music to the ears of many Aus voters, I suggest the smugglers had intelligence that the other party necessary to cooperate to achieve them, simply would not. Then there is also the issue of the legality in international Law of how the details of Abbotts plans, stand up. While effectively similar to Rudds plan, is there a difference of legal weakness they know they can beat with Abbott's plan?

Remembering also there are quite sophisticated networks of high powered legal people highly motivated to defeat these new gov initiatives and getting feedback into the Asylum seeker community.

drsmith, regarding "it was only ever designed to get Labor to the election", seems a bit cynical. Do you believe the PNG government signed an agreement they knew was just for the purpose of helping Rudd win a few more seats than Gillard would have?
 
Whiskers said:
drsmith, regarding "it was only ever designed to get Labor to the election", seems a bit cynical.
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The Minister has also revealed the previous government had not funded its offshore processing operations on Manus Island beyond this year.
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-...rison-details-asylum-seeker-movements/4974758

523 Arrivals in the past two weeks is the number given by Scott Morrison. Arrivals announcements on the customs site between the election date and when the new government was sworn in was 440 from 7 boats (not including 12 crew).

That would suggest 83 arrivals since the Coalition was sworn in.
 
drsmith said:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-...rison-details-asylum-seeker-movements/4974758

523 Arrivals in the past two weeks is the number given by Scott Morrison. Arrivals announcements on the customs site between the election date and when the new government was sworn in was 440 from 7 boats (not including 12 crew).

That would suggest 83 arrivals since the Coalition was sworn in.
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Again, drsmith... what has the swearing in date got to do with the flow of boats, given the swearing in was a week and a half after the result was known and the policy position was well broadcast long before that?

and from previous post...
drsmith, regarding "it was only ever designed to get Labor to the election", seems a bit cynical. Do you believe the PNG government signed an agreement they knew was just for the purpose of helping Rudd win a few more seats than Gillard would have?
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Re: "The Minister has also revealed the previous government had not funded its offshore processing operations on Manus Island beyond this year." that's not surprising considering the change of policies with Rudd and his reputation for slack budgeting. But, are you suggesting the smugglers knew this and is why the numbers have not stopped?

I'm looking for some logic or analytical basis to attach your statements too.
 
Julia said:
You both seem entirely determined not to give a changed perspective under the new government a chance.

Mr Morrison suggests that the daily reporting of boat arrivals was giving people smugglers an advantage, and that instead he will issue a weekly briefing to the media. The first of these is apparently due tomorrow.

But of course you won't even consider that, and instead seem intent on demonising the Coalition's policy before it has even had a chance to get off the ground.

Beats me why you won't hold off your determined anti government ranting until at least after Mr Abbott et al have met with the Indonesian government in a week's time.
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I'm nor demonising, Julia;
But I am deeply suspicious when the first policy change of a new Gov'mint consists of - yet another - delaying tactic. For that, I'm holding a mirror in front of our budgie smuggler, who, for 6 years, has done nothing but criticize and block. I don't deny anybody's right to fawn over him, nor do I complain when a great many (too many) posters on this Forum bag everything the previous government did as "personal ambition", while overlooking the same motivation and procrastination by the new broom.

As someone has coined the phrase: "I don't discriminate. I hate all the barstuds alike."

btw, nobody objected in 2010 when I gave Forrest Gump permission to re-publish my PM-Guru satire http://forrestthinks.blogspot.com.au/2010/05/some-light-relief.html
 
drsmith said:
If transfers to Nauru are anything to go by, it would seem this arrangement has indeed run into strife.

The last transfer under the caretaker administration of Labor was on September 10, over a week before the Coalition was sworn in. This arrangement has helped slow the boats, of that there is no doubt but it was only ever designed to get Labor to the election.
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ABC Radio news today around lunchtime included the statement that Mr Morrison said removals of asylum seekers has been stepped up :
Immigration Minister Scott Morrison touts 'rapid increase' in asylum seeker transfers
By chief political correspondent Emma Griffiths

Updated 52 minutes ago
Scott Morrison outlines Coalition asylum seeker policy Photo: Rapid increase in transfers ... Immigration Minister Scott Morrison. (AAP: Alan Porritt)
Related Story: Christmas Island administrator may resign if gagged
Map: Christmas Island

Immigration Minister Scott Morrison says hundreds of asylum seekers who have arrived by boat since the federal election have already been transferred to offshore processing centres in a "rapid increase" of the process.

In the past two weeks, 523 people have arrived by boat and claimed asylum in Australia.

Mr Morrison says about half of those have already left Australia's shores for processing on either Papua New Guinea's Manus Island or Nauru.
Click to expand...


Before condemning the Abbott government, it might be worthwhile giving them a chance. Perhaps not as much latitude as Labor with over 50,000 arrivals by boat and over 1000 deaths at sea, but a reasonable time at least to see if they can solve this problem.
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+1. All I'm asking for also.
We don't know how successful the Coalition's policy will be. They haven't even had the initial discussion in person with Indonesia yet.
There just seems to be an unnecessary determination on the part of a few people to label the new government a failure when they've not even been sworn in for a week.:rolleyes:
 

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